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FF4m3

@rr.com

Printable Plastic Gun Can Evade Security Scanners

Plans for fully 3D-printed gun go online next week:

The Liberator pistol causes political panic

Defense Distributed, the pending non-profit that plans to make 3D-printed weaponry available for anyone with such a printer, will release the blueprints for a fully-working plastic firearm next week.

The handgun, seen by Forbes, uses 16 printed parts that are clipped together and can be fitted with interchangeable barrels to fire different-caliber rounds. The only non-printed part needed to fire is a simple nail, which acts as the firing pin.

...in order to make the Liberator legal the group has added a six-ounce chunk of steel so that it can be picked up by metal detectors – a requirement for weaponry in the US under the 1988 Undetectable Firearms Act.

But if the plans do go public, there's going to be nothing in the design that makes the metal addition crucial, so potentially there could be people walking around with firearms that can get through airport scanners undetected.

"Security checkpoints, background checks, and gun regulations will do little good if criminals can print plastic firearms at home and bring those firearms through metal detectors with no one the wiser," said Congressman Steve Israel (D-NY) in a statement.

"When I started talking about the issue of plastic firearms months ago," Israel said, "I was told the idea of a plastic gun is science-fiction. Now that this technology appears to be upon us, we need to act now to extend the ban on plastic firearms."



beck
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-29
On The Road
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Well, "they" will just print a law against these guns and that will fix it.



Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1

yep. That is what one article says a few of the law makers are doing.
Problem is, how do you stop the criminals?

Laws only impact those that are willing to follow them.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.



Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
reply to FF4m3

At some point in time everything will be created on demand by the user.

"The gun is designed to fire standard handgun rounds,..."

A plastic gun with real bullets.
Imagine detonating a plastic pipe bomb in your hand.



Snowy
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reply to Snakeoil

said by Snakeoil:

Laws only impact those that are willing to follow them.

Those caught breaking the law would not agree.


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1

Ya, and how well has that worked?
Criminals don't care. They do their time, get out and repeat.

For example drunk drivers. They get caught get their hand slapped. They get a car drive again, get caught, etc. I read about a drunk that owned a car, had no license, no insurance. He got arrested for the 18th time.

Think he was worried about DUI laws?
Thankfully he never murdered anyone or damaged property while he was drunk driving.

--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.



Snowy
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said by Snakeoil:

I read about a drunk that owned a car, had no license, no insurance. He got arrested for the 18th time.

Think he was worried about DUI laws?

Not if he was arrested for driving without license/insurance.


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
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reply to Snowy

said by Snowy:

At some point in time everything will be created on demand by the user.

"The gun is designed to fire standard handgun rounds,..."

A plastic gun with real bullets.
Imagine detonating a plastic pipe bomb in your hand.

There are individuals who are quite willing (and even eager) to do exactly that.

OTOH, I haven't seen any fully plastic handgun rounds myself; even the plastic and rubber bullets I have seen are still packaged in a brass cartridge (and I have had brass buttons and zippers on jeans and thin metal frame eyeglasses trigger security scanners). But I have not been looking for totally plastic handgun rounds, so perhaps they are also available.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

Secyurityet
Premium
join:2012-01-07
untied state
reply to Snowy

said by Snowy:

said by Snakeoil:

Laws only impact those that are willing to follow them.

Those caught breaking the law would not agree.

"Caught" being the operative word.


Rebrider
Been There Done That
Premium
join:2000-11-23
reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

said by Snowy:

At some point in time everything will be created on demand by the user.

"The gun is designed to fire standard handgun rounds,..."

A plastic gun with real bullets.
Imagine detonating a plastic pipe bomb in your hand.

There are individuals who are quite willing (and even eager) to do exactly that.

OTOH, I haven't seen any fully plastic handgun rounds myself; even the plastic and rubber bullets I have seen are still packaged in a brass cartridge (and I have had brass buttons and zippers on jeans and thin metal frame eyeglasses trigger security scanners). But I have not been looking for totally plastic handgun rounds, so perhaps they are also available.

Plastic bullets. What will they think of next?
--
Join The Resistance. RKBA


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to FF4m3

said by FF4m3 :

Plans for fully 3D-printed gun go online next week:

The Liberator pistol causes political panic

Defense Distributed, the pending non-profit that plans to make 3D-printed weaponry available for anyone with such a printer, will release the blueprints for a fully-working plastic firearm next week.

The handgun, seen by Forbes, uses 16 printed parts that are clipped together and can be fitted with interchangeable barrels to fire different-caliber rounds. The only non-printed part needed to fire is a simple nail, which acts as the firing pin.

...in order to make the Liberator legal the group has added a six-ounce chunk of steel so that it can be picked up by metal detectors – a requirement for weaponry in the US under the 1988 Undetectable Firearms Act.

But if the plans do go public, there's going to be nothing in the design that makes the metal addition crucial, so potentially there could be people walking around with firearms that can get through airport scanners undetected.

"Security checkpoints, background checks, and gun regulations will do little good if criminals can print plastic firearms at home and bring those firearms through metal detectors with no one the wiser," said Congressman Steve Israel (D-NY) in a statement.

"When I started talking about the issue of plastic firearms months ago," Israel said, "I was told the idea of a plastic gun is science-fiction. Now that this technology appears to be upon us, we need to act now to extend the ban on plastic firearms."

Airport scanners are not just metal detectors anymore. They also sniff for gun powder, TNT, plastic explosives, etc. A plastic gun is not a new invention. Maybe printing your own is, but not the fact of plastic guns. Scanners to sniff for explosive materials was available for at least 2 decades. My data center had such a device to gain access to the computer bays and the network control center in 1995. And we weren't even a government installation.

So the danger of printed guns is greatly exaggerated.
--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."


Snowy
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said by FFH:

So the danger of printed guns is greatly exaggerated.

As a danger that can beat access controls, yes I completely agree.
Saturday Night Special dealers could lose significant market share to this though.


FF4m3

@rr.com
reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

I haven't seen any fully plastic handgun rounds myself; even the plastic and rubber bullets I have seen are still packaged in a brass cartridge (and I have had brass buttons and zippers on jeans and thin metal frame eyeglasses trigger security scanners). But I have not been looking for totally plastic handgun rounds, so perhaps they are also available.

Speer plastic bullets, the only widely available brand, are hollow based plastic cylinders, and are available in .357/.38/9 mm, .44, and .45 calibers, and are designed for use in handguns, primarily revolvers, as the flat nose of the bullet does not feed well in most magazine fed actions. The propulsion is provided only by the primer, and the slow moving plastic bullets may be captured undamaged and reused numerous times if a suitable backstop is used. For use in revolvers, .38 Special and .44 Special versions also include plastic cases, which can be primed and de-primed by hand with minimal tools. For other calibers, standard brass cases are used.

You can bet that some agency somewhere is working to develop a high-velocity 100% plastic variety, if it already isn't available to a select few.


FF4m3

@rr.com
reply to FF4m3

From BBC News:

The world's first gun made with 3D printer technology has been successfully fired in the US.

The group has spent a year trying to create the firearm, which was successfully tested on Saturday at a firing range south of Austin, Texas.

Victoria Baines, from Europol's cybercrime centre, said that at present criminals were more likely to pursue traditional routes to obtain firearms.

She added, however: "But as time goes on and as this technology becomes more user friendly and more cost effective, it is possible that some of these risks will emerge."

The idea is that as the printers become cheaper, instead of buying goods from shops, consumers will instead be able to download designs and print out the items at home.

Defense Distributed is headed by Cody Wilson, a 25-year-old law student at the University of Texas.

He told the BBC: "There is a demand of guns - there just is. There are states all over the world that say you can't own firearms - and that's not true anymore.

"I'm seeing a world where technology says you can pretty much be able to have whatever you want. It's not up to the political players any more."

Asked if he felt any sense of responsibility about whose hands the gun might fall into, he told the BBC: "I recognise the tool might be used to harm other people - that's what the tool is - it's a gun.

Donna Sellers, from the ATF, told BBC News that the 3D-printed gun, as long as it was not a National Firearms Act weapon (an automatic gun, for example), was legal in the US.

3D printing technology has already been used by some criminal organisations to create card readers - "skimmers" - that are inserted into bank machines.

Many law enforcement agencies around the world now have people dedicated to monitoring cybercrime and emerging technologies such as 3D printers.

Ms Baines from Europol said: "What we know is that technology proceeds much more quickly than we expect it to. So by getting one step ahead of the technological developments, we hope and believe we will be able to get one step ahead of the criminals as well."


WeenieAlso

join:2002-01-29
Pasadena, MD
reply to FF4m3

Would not the metal detectors detect the bullets ?


SpHeRe31459

join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2

said by WeenieAlso:

Would not the metal detectors detect the bullets ?

It seems to me whatever those guys are making at Defense Distributed would simply blow up in your face since it appears to be all plastic aside from a firing pin made from a nail.

Either way the bullets and the nail would show up. And as pointed out new scanners do more than find only metal.

»www.cracked.com/article_19781_6-···ies.html
quote:
It's easy to make the frame or magazine of a gun out of some non-metal polymer, but things like the barrel and the pins are under way too much heat and pressure to be made of anything but good old-fashioned metal.

davidhoffman
Premium
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA
kudos:3
reply to FF4m3

Reliable accurate barrels will still need to be made out of a strong metal, unless you are creating a new all plastic very low pressure cartridge to be fired from an all plastic gun. That might be good for very short distance shooting, maybe 3 to 4 meters(10 to 13 feet) maximum.



FF4m3

@rr.com
reply to SpHeRe31459

said by SpHeRe31459:

said by WeenieAlso:

Would not the metal detectors detect the bullets ?

It seems to me whatever those guys are making at Defense Distributed would simply blow up in your face since it appears to be all plastic aside from a firing pin made from a nail.

It seems that you are wrong.

SpHeRe31459

join:2002-10-09
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2

said by FF4m3 :

It seems that you are wrong.

Proof? Have they posted any videos of someone using it on a range?


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

4 edits

said by SpHeRe31459:

said by FF4m3 :

It seems that you are wrong.

Proof? Have they posted any videos of someone using it on a range?

The link and videos in the story
»www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenbe···-photos/
»www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenbe···ted-gun/
shows they have fired it from a stand a few times and once holding it by hand. It has never worked more than 10 shots without failing. When they tried a different bullet(other than a .38), the gun blew up and broke in to pieces.

Wilson showed me a video of an ABS plastic barrel the group printed attached to a non-printed gun body firing ten rounds of .380 ammunition before breaking on the eleventh.

The printed gun seems limited, for now, to certain calibers of ammunition. After the handgun round, Wilson switched out the Liberator’s barrel for a higher-charge 5.7×28 rifle cartridge. He and John retreated to a safe distance, and John pulled his yellow string again. This time the gun exploded, sending shards of white ABS plastic flying into the weeds and bringing the Liberator’s first field trial to an abrupt end.

--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."

Frodo

join:2006-05-05
reply to SpHeRe31459

said by SpHeRe31459:

Proof? Have they posted any videos of someone using it on a range?

»www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-envir···22421185

redwolfe_98
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reply to FF4m3

i thought this was nothing when i first heard about the "printable gun"-until i saw it on the news, tonite..

"The only non-printed part needed to fire is a simple nail, which acts as the firing pin"

i reckon a "prong" from a belt buckle would work



FF4m3

@rr.com
reply to FF4m3

The first ever hand-firing of the world's first fully 3D-printed gun:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_wfF9pZZlo


FF4m3

@rr.com
reply to FF4m3

Here's a vid:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK55GSbSWQ0


FF4m3

@rr.com
reply to FF4m3

said by FF4m3 :

Defense Distributed, the pending non-profit that plans to make 3D-printed weaponry available for anyone with such a printer, will release the blueprints for a fully-working plastic firearm next week.

Here they are.
Expand your moderator at work

Frodo

join:2006-05-05
reply to FF4m3

Re: Printable Plastic Gun Can Evade Security Scanners

Says here, the Feds have removed the blueprints.

»www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/0···443.html
My first thought is, I guess 2nd amendment meets 1st amendment.

"Controversial wiki-weapon venture Defense Distributed removed the blueprints for a 3D printable gun from its website on Thursday on the State Department's order. "


FF4m3

@rr.com

said by Frodo:

Says here, the Feds have removed the blueprints.

Yep. Not unexpected. However...

US State Department gets 3D Liberator gun designs pulled from the website, but will that stop people from making this weapon?:

The plans are no longer available on the Defense Distributed website but are reportedly still online on several torrent websites, including Pirate Bay.

In addition, all those who've already downloaded the plans can easily email them and/or share them in many other ways. Even use these plans to develop & share alternate designs.


siljaline
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reply to FF4m3

The Pirate Bay now hosts banned 3D-printed gun files
See also: Torrent Freak


Secyurityet
Premium
join:2012-01-07
untied state
reply to FF4m3

As remarkable as the process is, considering the cost of the printer and the materials that go into the gun, and the inherent short lifetime (until they figure out how to incorporate a powdered ceramic ink for the barrel), it'll be a lot less expensive to just go to the gun shop (or show) and pick up a pistol or two or twenty...