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Rebrider
Been There Done That
Premium
join:2000-11-23

1 recommendation

reply to StuartMW

Re: Windows XP: Remove the Cable, Tape Up the Ethernet Port

said by StuartMW:

Yeah well many seem to believe the day XP support ends all software on those boxes will die and the machines will burst into flames.

Support ended for Win2K a long time ago and my Win2K SP4 box continues to work. Granted it won't run a lot of newer software but that's not a security issue.

I still a run a 98SE machine. Works great for what I use it for.
--
Join The Resistance. RKBA


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

1 recommendation

said by Rebrider:

I still a run a 98SE machine.

Until a few years ago I did too It was on an old (10 years) Toshiba laptop with 96MB of RAM. I gave it away in still working condition to someone that didn't have a PC.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to dave

said by dave:

Yes, of course. But they weren't patched yesterday (for that vulnerability) either. The software is exactly as secure as it was before.

Well, the new vulnerabilities were not exploited yesterday. Now they are.

If your system is vulnerable to a new threat and there is not a patch available to you I would say that is that much more insecure per se.

But, with a competent operator it can be just as safe as it ever was.

How rare are competent operator?

YMMV.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to Smokey Bear

They can easily end this problem forever »www.linuxmint.com/


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

1 recommendation

Even distros have their EOL, some are long term support like around ten years or less, and others might only get support for a few years which you have to upgrade afterwards for updates. So it's not a forever solution, and current software even ran on nix/bsd will tend to use more resources if hardware is already the limitation. Besides most mainstream commercal programs are not available for these operating systems, and hardware support is quite hit and miss, otherwise many are missing advanced driver support unless you can somehow compile it on your own.

For businesses they need more of a professional solution, but for the everyday person they would likely be ok with Ubuntu, or Mint which is variation of Ubuntu for basic needs.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.



dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
reply to Smokey Bear

Epoxy in the port is more effective.


dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

said by dib22:

Epoxy in the port is more effective.

A time-proven technique in the minicomputer world.


sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to StuartMW

I have a Win98SE machine that I took to work because it had something no other machine had: a serial port. We needed it to console into some of our "extra lab" devices...

Despite that we got USB Serial adapters now, we still use my old museum piece because no one wants to bother taking their laptop in there.
--
Think Outside the Fox.


VirtualLarry
Premium
join:2003-08-01
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME

1 recommendation

reply to Smokey Bear

Is there some reason that they cannot upgrade to Windows 7, on the same hardware? Or is the issue that they have "corporate apps" that were written for XP, and would have to be tested, patched, and rolled out for a newer OS?

I would say, that this issue would be a strong one in support for open-source OSes, in terms of support. You don't have to worry about support being EOL, when you have the source code to your OS and can patch it yourself, rather than relying upon your OS vendor.



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
reply to sivran

I have two boxes that have real serial and parallel ports. In the consumer world no-one uses those anymore. That said they're still useful in some scenario's (e.g. embedded systems).
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

In situations where they do not have to handle sensitive data the system can be left as legacy, like production, but fixing any problems with custom software is likely as expensive as if they had new custom software written. Sometimes it can be as easy as porting the software as long as the compilers are compatible, and they didn't use any shortcuts which seems to frequently be the problem as those tend to break when moved to a newer operating system.

A serial, and parallel card can be easily added to a desktop computer, otherwise as already stated there are adapters.

Even major 3rd party software vendors will drop support for the older operating systems, and start to use things like libraries and compilers which are supported in newer operating systems only leaving the legacy behind as they offer more features. Even with xp being nt, without the necessary support newer software might not run correctly on it anymore.

Anyone remember that recent huge exploit involving legacy 16-bit support leading to software escalation, but 64-bit wasn't affected as they dropped 16-bit support? To me it felt like it was something they knew about, but might have swept under the rug until somebody exploited it as it would have broken their core programming, if it wasn't put there intentionally. We all know sometimes they leave, or put things in there to bypass certain operations. Ctrl alt del wasn't something they originally planned on using, and was more of a debug feature.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

1 recommendation

said by BlitzenZeus:

Anyone remember that recent huge exploit involving legacy 16-bit support...

Yeah. The whole 16-bit support (ntvdm) mechanism was quite a hack albeit a necessary (legacy support) one.

. o O (Ahh the "good" ole days of real-mode segmented programming. Oh wait they sucked!)
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

Yeah well many seem to believe the day XP support ends all software on those boxes will die and the machines will burst into flames.

Support ended for Win2K a long time ago and my Win2K SP4 box continues to work. Granted it won't run a lot of newer software but that's not a security issue.

Do you use your W2K online though?
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.


antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Dustyn

said by Dustyn:

The worst part is having no upgrade path when it comes to IE8 on Windows XP. You're stuck with it if you choose to stick with XP. I'd love to get IE9 or IE10 on XP... just can't happen. At least there is Opera and Firefox.

For now...
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
reply to antdude

said by antdude:

Do you use your W2K online though?

Not much. When I do I use FF 12.0 (the last to run on Win2K).
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
reply to antdude

said by antdude:

For now...

Well FF is still 32-bit (as are most browsers) so I'd expect it to run on WinXP for a while yet.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to BlitzenZeus

said by BlitzenZeus:

Ctrl alt del wasn't something they originally planned on using, and was more of a debug feature.

Orange Book conformance required a 'secure attention key' for trusted login path. So you need to choose a key combination that hasn't been used for some significant pre-existing app. With the intended back-compatibility to DOS-based Windows, that choice is quite difficult. But there's one combo that apps never use: ctrl+alt+del.

So, maybe choosing ctrl+alt+del for the SAK was not originally planned, but the need for a SAK would have been there from the start (Cutler would have been aware of what grownup systems needed).


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

said by dave:

Orange Book conformance required a 'secure attention key'...

I remember well the number of times I needed to "gain the attention" of a hung MS-DOS program with Ctrl-Alt-Del
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to BlitzenZeus

Linux distros are only as heavy as you make them, theres no reason they can't use a light weight desktop environment like Mate, LXDE or XFCE and still have something that would be very familiar to someone that is used to XP.

That all depends on the specific software they need and if they want to be beholden to the decisions of some outside company or if they'd like to take more control over their data by moving to an open source solution that they can keep running forever on ever newer hardware if they need.

These organizations made the mistake of jumping on to the Microsoft bandwagon, if you buy into the monoculture you get the consequences of it as well.


PX Eliezer

join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:4
Reviews:
·callwithus
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

reply to BlitzenZeus

said by BlitzenZeus:

Microsoft needs to make money to survive....

1) That ain't my problem. I'd rather my money go first to my family, and second to worthy causes like Sandy relief. And if Microsoft vanished tomorrow, the world would go on. Maybe even better as it would help other OS.

2) Car companies need to make money to survive. But I drive a car that is 20 years old but still runs OK. Again, it is not MY job to keep GM solvent.

3) One main reason I have not bought a new car is that the car buying experience is so unpleasant (dealers etc). Every time my wife or I bought cars it was bad, except for the time we got a Saturn. But GM destroyed Saturn. If the car companies want me to buy a new car, let them reform the way they sell them. Why can't I buy a car from Costco?

4) Which brings me back to Microsoft. Microsoft refused to provide a direct upgrade path from Windows XP to Windows 7. (I would have had to go through Vista as a middleman---Ugh, and no thanks).

Because MS refused to provide a direct upgrade path from WinXP to Win7, they can go to hell.


Trihexagonal

join:2004-08-29
Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest
reply to BlitzenZeus

I'm running FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE-p3 with XP era hardware on my PC, and Vista era on my laptop. I post screenshots in the UNIX forum every month showing top and the resources they use, which is minimal.

I'm currently using my laptop with 2 instances of Firefox open, with 3 windows open on each for a total of 6 windows. Firefox is using 341MB RAM out of 2GB, leaving 1426MB free, and that's taking into account all the resources used by the OS and programs I'm running ATM. I don't have a Windows box to compare it to.



NetFixer
From my cold dead hands
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
·Comcast

said by Trihexagonal:

I'm running FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE-p3 with XP era hardware on my PC, and Vista era on my laptop. I post screenshots in the UNIX forum every month showing top and the resources they use, which is minimal.

I'm currently using my laptop with 2 instances of Firefox open, with 3 windows open on each for a total of 6 windows. Firefox is using 341MB RAM out of 2GB, leaving 1426MB free, and that's taking into account all the resources used by the OS and programs I'm running ATM. I don't have a Windows box to compare it to.

Not really all that different from what is happening on my 2002 vintage Windows XP workstation at this moment (except that I use SeaMonkey instead of Firefox).




FWIW, the high usage on the beginning of the chart was an HD streaming video (which this old box does well enough that I have no plans to replace either it or its OS).
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
reply to Trihexagonal

Resources are not the real issue here, it's the eol of support for the os, and after 13 years extended from 10 I'd say it's time for some legacy to expire again. I can't wait for IE 6 to officially die at the same time as xp support. You would find that 10 years is a long time even for lts distros.

I'm aware many distros have lower resource usage from the os, I run one nix variation myself, but I still mostly use windows due to the programs I want to run which are not created, otherwise ported from windows. Wine and virtualization are not enough for what I want to run reliably. Hell many programs are not even made available for Apple's osx, and there is no equivalent. I'm quite aware not everyone runs windows, there's many professional options, but it's up to the business or government to embrace them. For home use people can easily use one of the many distros for their needs, but some windows software just doesn't like wine or virtualization.

Businesses, and governments were given an addition three years to get their plans in order to move off xp.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

said by BlitzenZeus:

Resources are not the real issue here, it's the eol of support for the os, and after 13 years extended from 10 I'd say it's time for some legacy to expire again.

I'd say no. If it works and works well, why I'd want to spend (actually waste) my money? Just to support m$? That's ridiculous. My suggestion - sell your MSFT stocks (as I gladly did many rears ago) and you'll see EoL from a completely different perspective, I promise ...

And BTW, I completely agree with this point:
said by PX Eliezer:

said by BlitzenZeus:

Microsoft needs to make money to survive....

1) That ain't my problem. I'd rather my money go first to my family, and second to worthy causes like Sandy relief. And if Microsoft vanished tomorrow, the world would go on. Maybe even better as it would help other OS.

--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

Not really all that different from what is happening on my 2002 vintage Windows XP workstation at this moment (except that I use SeaMonkey instead of Firefox).

FWIW, the high usage on the beginning of the chart was an HD streaming video (which this old box does well enough that I have no plans to replace either it or its OS).

The main difference is he's using all current software, not 13 year old software with a few current pieces that still work on the digital fossil.


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to BlitzenZeus

said by BlitzenZeus:

Resources are not the real issue here, it's the eol of support for the os, and after 13 years extended from 10 I'd say it's time for some legacy to expire again. I can't wait for IE 6 to officially die at the same time as xp support. You would find that 10 years is a long time even for lts distros.

You made the implication that modern distros may be too heavy to run on a machine that shipped with XP.

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

Yay, more off topic, out of context reading between the lines.



Trihexagonal

join:2004-08-29
Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest

1 edit

1 recommendation

I've had a FreeBSD box for about 8 years, but it wasn't till a year ago this month when I could no longer use my restoration disks to reformat my Vista box that I chose to go with BSD full time rather than buy another version of Windows. Since then, I've found I can do anything with it I used to do with Windows using programs from ports, and don't use Wine or any Windows programs.

If more people made the move from Windows perhaps more business suites would be ported over, if there isn't already an alternative.



NetFixer
From my cold dead hands
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to intok

said by intok:

The main difference is he's using all current software, not 13 year old software with a few current pieces that still work on the digital fossil.

What can I say except that us old fossils have to stick together. I am from the era when vacuum tube computers were just beginning to be developed, and I wear the fossil label with pride.

My "13 year old software" does everything I need it to do. Why should I spend hard to come by money just because somebody else decides that I need new software?
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


Trihexagonal

join:2004-08-29
Reviews:
·AT&T Midwest

1 edit
reply to NetFixer

Click for full size
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This shows resource use on mine. Inactive mem is considered free, it holds it in reserve like that for use if need be, for a total of approximately 1400MB free out of 2GB. CPU is Intel 1.6GHz DuoCore.

GKrellM doesn't make the distinction and shows all memory not in use as free.