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Trihexagonal

join:2004-08-29
US
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest
reply to BlitzenZeus

Re: Windows XP: Remove the Cable, Tape Up the Ethernet Port

I'm running FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE-p3 with XP era hardware on my PC, and Vista era on my laptop. I post screenshots in the UNIX forum every month showing top and the resources they use, which is minimal.

I'm currently using my laptop with 2 instances of Firefox open, with 3 windows open on each for a total of 6 windows. Firefox is using 341MB RAM out of 2GB, leaving 1426MB free, and that's taking into account all the resources used by the OS and programs I'm running ATM. I don't have a Windows box to compare it to.



NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
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said by Trihexagonal:

I'm running FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE-p3 with XP era hardware on my PC, and Vista era on my laptop. I post screenshots in the UNIX forum every month showing top and the resources they use, which is minimal.

I'm currently using my laptop with 2 instances of Firefox open, with 3 windows open on each for a total of 6 windows. Firefox is using 341MB RAM out of 2GB, leaving 1426MB free, and that's taking into account all the resources used by the OS and programs I'm running ATM. I don't have a Windows box to compare it to.

Not really all that different from what is happening on my 2002 vintage Windows XP workstation at this moment (except that I use SeaMonkey instead of Firefox).




FWIW, the high usage on the beginning of the chart was an HD streaming video (which this old box does well enough that I have no plans to replace either it or its OS).
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3
reply to Trihexagonal

Resources are not the real issue here, it's the eol of support for the os, and after 13 years extended from 10 I'd say it's time for some legacy to expire again. I can't wait for IE 6 to officially die at the same time as xp support. You would find that 10 years is a long time even for lts distros.

I'm aware many distros have lower resource usage from the os, I run one nix variation myself, but I still mostly use windows due to the programs I want to run which are not created, otherwise ported from windows. Wine and virtualization are not enough for what I want to run reliably. Hell many programs are not even made available for Apple's osx, and there is no equivalent. I'm quite aware not everyone runs windows, there's many professional options, but it's up to the business or government to embrace them. For home use people can easily use one of the many distros for their needs, but some windows software just doesn't like wine or virtualization.

Businesses, and governments were given an addition three years to get their plans in order to move off xp.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

said by BlitzenZeus:

Resources are not the real issue here, it's the eol of support for the os, and after 13 years extended from 10 I'd say it's time for some legacy to expire again.

I'd say no. If it works and works well, why I'd want to spend (actually waste) my money? Just to support m$? That's ridiculous. My suggestion - sell your MSFT stocks (as I gladly did many rears ago) and you'll see EoL from a completely different perspective, I promise ...

And BTW, I completely agree with this point:
said by PX Eliezer:

said by BlitzenZeus:

Microsoft needs to make money to survive....

1) That ain't my problem. I'd rather my money go first to my family, and second to worthy causes like Sandy relief. And if Microsoft vanished tomorrow, the world would go on. Maybe even better as it would help other OS.

--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

Not really all that different from what is happening on my 2002 vintage Windows XP workstation at this moment (except that I use SeaMonkey instead of Firefox).

FWIW, the high usage on the beginning of the chart was an HD streaming video (which this old box does well enough that I have no plans to replace either it or its OS).

The main difference is he's using all current software, not 13 year old software with a few current pieces that still work on the digital fossil.


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to BlitzenZeus

said by BlitzenZeus:

Resources are not the real issue here, it's the eol of support for the os, and after 13 years extended from 10 I'd say it's time for some legacy to expire again. I can't wait for IE 6 to officially die at the same time as xp support. You would find that 10 years is a long time even for lts distros.

You made the implication that modern distros may be too heavy to run on a machine that shipped with XP.

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

Yay, more off topic, out of context reading between the lines.



Trihexagonal

join:2004-08-29
US
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest

1 edit

1 recommendation

I've had a FreeBSD box for about 8 years, but it wasn't till a year ago this month when I could no longer use my restoration disks to reformat my Vista box that I chose to go with BSD full time rather than buy another version of Windows. Since then, I've found I can do anything with it I used to do with Windows using programs from ports, and don't use Wine or any Windows programs.

If more people made the move from Windows perhaps more business suites would be ported over, if there isn't already an alternative.



NetFixer
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1 recommendation

reply to intok

said by intok:

The main difference is he's using all current software, not 13 year old software with a few current pieces that still work on the digital fossil.

What can I say except that us old fossils have to stick together. I am from the era when vacuum tube computers were just beginning to be developed, and I wear the fossil label with pride.

My "13 year old software" does everything I need it to do. Why should I spend hard to come by money just because somebody else decides that I need new software?
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


Trihexagonal

join:2004-08-29
US
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest

1 edit
reply to NetFixer

Click for full size
top
This shows resource use on mine. Inactive mem is considered free, it holds it in reserve like that for use if need be, for a total of approximately 1400MB free out of 2GB. CPU is Intel 1.6GHz DuoCore.

GKrellM doesn't make the distinction and shows all memory not in use as free.


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

What can I say except that us old fossils have to stick together. I am from the era when vacuum tube computers were just beginning to be developed, and I wear the fossil label with pride.

My "13 year old software" does everything I need it to do. Why should I spend hard to come by money just because somebody else decides that I need new software?

Because your 13 year old operating system is a gaping security hole. If you where running a f/oss operating system you can stay up to date and keep your old software chugging along without the security holes unless they exist in your old app.

Clinging to an ancient version of Windows and hoping that your next trip online wont require you to reformat due to security holes that are known and will never be fixed is not a solution. Or do you not remember the Vista exploit that has apparently been exploitable there since Win3.11?


NetFixer
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said by intok:

Because your 13 year old operating system is a gaping security hole. If you where running a f/oss operating system you can stay up to date and keep your old software chugging along without the security holes unless they exist in your old app.

Clinging to an ancient version of Windows and hoping that your next trip online wont require you to reformat due to security holes that are known and will never be fixed is not a solution. Or do you not remember the Vista exploit that has apparently been exploitable there since Win3.11?

You worry about what you want to worry about, and let me worry about what I need to worry about (and Windows XP/2003 security isn't one of those things).

FYI, I also use a relatively recent version of OpenSuSE in addition to Windows XP/2003 (I said that Windows XP/2003 was my Windows platform, not my only platform), and it is no more (or less) secure than the Windows XP/2003 systems on my network. Network security has very little to do with any specific version of any specific OS, and very much to do with configuration of the systems (and a bit of common sense). I have never...and I will repeat...never had a malware infection on any PC on my network (other than controlled deliberately induced infections for research and testing). That had absolutely nothing to do with the version or brand of OS on the PC boxes; but it did depend on the configuration and usage of the PC boxes, and the overall security on the network itself.

Any version of any OS (or any network) is as secure (or insecure) as the user and/or administrator makes it. And in that vein, my OpenSuSE server is actually more at risk due to the applications it runs (and is attacked more frequently) than any of the Windows XP/2003 boxes on my network. Although, since I moved my primary email server from the OpenSuSE box to the Windows 2003 server box (partly for load balancing purposes, but also because I just happen to like the hMailServer application) the Windows Server box is starting to play catchup on the daily attack stats.

As for the applications I use, if the applications that forced me to migrate from Windows 2000 to Windows XP ran properly under OpenSuSE (or some other *nix distro), or if I had found *nix compatible applications that did the same thing in the same way (I am an old cranky fart, and I don't like changes...if it ain't broke, don't fix it), I would have migrated to that platform for those applications (I like OpenSuSE...it is reliable, easy to setup, easy to use, and I have used it since long before Novell assimilated it and added the Open prefix). But security would have not been part of the decision making process.
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


intok

join:2012-03-15

Fun thing about a competent bit of malware is you may never know its there »it.slashdot.org/story/13/03/21/0···omputers


Velnias

join:2004-07-06
reply to Smokey Bear

Question is, why Linux is good for Munich municipality (Germany) and many more
»www.comparebusinessproducts.com/···t-expect (old information),
but not for Japanese?

BTW, things works well not Microsoft way too...



NetFixer
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1 edit
reply to intok

said by intok:

Fun thing about a competent bit of malware is you may never know its there »it.slashdot.org/story/13/03/21/0···omputers

Fun thing about a competent network admin is some of us know not to trust an outside VPN/remote access service. Remember that "common sense" part of network security I previously mentioned?

The only time I ever used TeamViewer (because a vendor I was working with required it for a particular situation at a client's site), it was done on a standalone notebook which was sanitized afterward. The first rule of network security is "Trust No One".
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.


Woody79_00
I run Linux am I still a PC?
Premium
join:2004-07-08
united state

All this hoopla about XP/2003 not being secure after April 2014 is just a running joke.

1. XP Professional, Enable Software Restriction Policies, white list your known good apps, and nothing else will run on it...malware problem solved....malware can't install if the scripts/executable won't even run.

2. Install the AV/Security Suite of your choice (XP will be supported by vendors for quite awhile longer because the market is their for them to make money)

3 enjoy your XP/2003 system for as long as you want....if you want to be evne more secure install Windows SteadyState..works just fine for XP.

in terms of security one "could" argue that newer versions of Windows are more of a security risk...because Windows 7 Code base, for exmaple, is huge in comparison with XP...just look at the amount of hard drive space each install takes...more lines of code = greater chance a flaw exists somewhere.

There are two sides to this argument....granted Win 7/8 has better more secure default settings then XP, but XP can be made secure enough with the proper settings.



sivran
Opera ex-pat
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to intok

said by intok:

said by BlitzenZeus:

Resources are not the real issue here, it's the eol of support for the os, and after 13 years extended from 10 I'd say it's time for some legacy to expire again. I can't wait for IE 6 to officially die at the same time as xp support. You would find that 10 years is a long time even for lts distros.

You made the implication that modern distros may be too heavy to run on a machine that shipped with XP.

My eight year old Sempron ran better under XP than under the Xubuntu it currently runs.
--
Think Outside the Fox.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

2 edits
reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

Yeah well many seem to believe the day XP support ends all software on those boxes will die and the machines will burst into flames.

Support ended for Win2K a long time ago and my Win2K SP4 box continues to work. Granted it won't run a lot of newer software but that's not a security issue.

 
about the flames !

BTW, I have a Win2K notebook still up (Thinkpad T22) and I have FireFox 10 LongTermSupport (or whatever they call that) series on it, and Opera 11.something, and those work fine.

My p2p apps like it too, and if I eventually take it out of service, it will only be because some of the newer video codecs need more CPU and/or video electronics power than a T22 has, as I have also been using it for watching offline videos & live streams.

IMNSHO, MicroSloth spreads FUD about their old OS's because they want to sell new ones, and most of the PC makers are in bed with them.

Although I have not warmed up yet to these, I see the 'Tablet Revolution' as refreshing, as it may finally get SOME kind of Linux accepted and used by the mainstream public in significant numbers, following its deployment and acceptance on so many smartphones recently.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !

Kearnstd
Space Elf
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join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
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1 recommendation

reply to Smokey Bear

XP is how old?

If your shit cannot support Windows7 by now you deserve to be SOL. If you have Intranet apps depending on IE6 that is just too damn bad.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

Yeah, if you don't have a decent dual core at this point it's quite outdated for everyday use with current software, but specialized use it might have other purposes. To put it bluntly, single core is out, but some dual cores can't handle hd video w/o gpu acceleration. Win 8 will doesn't want to be installed to single core processors, and Win 7 will be the last one to allow it. People need to remember that hardware has changed considerably in a decade, and some systems with xp only had 512MiB of ram when released as gold. Now 2GiB for current applications is seen as mandatory, and new systems at least sell with 4GiB since they stopped selling Win 32-bit with 2-3GiB of ram years ago retail.

With all that said I know some distros work well with a dual core, and only 1GiB ok if they do ok for most things. Even current software on those operating systems still takes up hudreds of MiB, just like windows.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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START Today!
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reply to PX Eliezer

said by PX Eliezer:

....Microsoft refused to provide a direct upgrade path from Windows XP to Windows 7.

(I would have had to go through Vista as a middleman---Ugh, and no thanks)

Because MS refused to provide a direct upgrade path from WinXP to Win7, they can go to hell.

 
Come to think of it, I DID lament that shortcoming at the time that 7 came out.

However, as I am a late adopter of most new things, I was just getting familiar with Vista at that time, factory loaded on a used box which had come my way, and I actually don't mind it, once the two Service Packs are added, and continue to use that box, along with an XP one, and the Win2K Thinkpad.

Besides, so much of what changed (under the hood) from XP to Vista (such as the folder hierarchy and command line apps for partitioning and 'ghosting'), has not changed much further, if at all, from Vista to 7.

Sure, the UI has been revised, to give that "It's a whole different OS, folks !" feeling, and some defaults are different, but to me, 7 is just Vista with a shell change, and that's not necessarily criticism (nor praise) of either OS.

XP (and Win2K) is still very much 'The devil we know' to me.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !


Davesnothere
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START Today!
kudos:7
reply to NetFixer

said by NetFixer:

What can I say except that us old fossils have to stick together. I am from the era when vacuum tube computers were just beginning to be developed, and I wear the fossil label with pride.

My "13 year old software" does everything I need it to do. Why should I spend hard to come by money just because somebody else decides that I need new software?

 
HEAR, HEAR !

My lineage is similar to yours, and I still know how to mend old vacuum tube audio amplifiers and such, if any present themselves, and have the test equipment to help me do so.

I only retired my Win 98 box when I decided that I needed larger hard drive partitions than 98 supports, and it wasn't ALL that long ago.


Trihexagonal

join:2004-08-29
US
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest

said by Davesnothere:

My lineage is similar to yours, and I still know how to mend old vacuum tube audio amplifiers and such, if any present themselves, and have the test equipment to help me do so.

I'll remember that if I ever blow any more tubes in my Pioneer tube amp.


Phoenix22
Death From Above
Premium
join:2001-12-11
SOG C&C Nrth
reply to Smokey Bear

whoa!..............guz...........springz here.......look outside.......go 4a walk..........wash the car............have a beer...............go ahead mingle.......under the dome starts in a couple weeks.........;==))



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to Trihexagonal

said by Trihexagonal:

I'll remember that if I ever blow any more tubes in my Pioneer tube amp.

Actually I think there's a small but active market in vacuum tubes. Many audiophiles and old-school folks repair and maintain such systems--even computers



ENIAC Type Arithmetic System-Computer

And not being connected to the internet I bet that ENIAC is secure even though "support" has long since ended
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8

All you need is some malware that can replug the ENIAC cables that constitute the 'programming' ...



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
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Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

In the ENIAC days I think "malware" referred to a malicious operator. Remember the days when computers had full-time staff ("operators") to keep them going?
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


dave
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join:2000-05-04
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Reviews:
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Indeed I do. There's a couple of million dollars worth of 1970s mainframe in my basement (well, sort of: it's emulated on a more-or-less worthless Pentium M, though it runs a lot faster than the real thing) running a 1970s operating system, that now and then demands that the operator (emulated by me) mount tape reel #777776 on unit 31 (emulated by a fairly small disk file) so it can do its incremental dump.

The scary thing is that I have used the same OS in its native habitat.



StuartMW
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1 edit

Ohhhh, so you're using 40-yr old software? And I bet it hasn't had any security updates for a while either

How do you get the punchcards in?
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

HEAR, HEAR !

My lineage is similar to yours, and I still know how to mend old vacuum tube audio amplifiers and such, if any present themselves, and have the test equipment to help me do so.

This is a photo of the only vacuum tube equipment I still have that sees active usage:




I saved mine from a briny grave in Chesapeake Bay after the Navy replaced it with a solid state device. I do also still have a vacuum tube RT test box that was saved from a similar burial at sea, but I can't remember the last time I needed to plug it into AC power and power it up (the ARR-41 just keeps on running, so I haven't needed the test equipment).
--
A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.