dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
380
share rss forum feed
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

What happens when...

HFC overbuilders go to DOCSIS 3.1 and start offering gig symmetrical?

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: What happens when...

said by BiggA:

HFC overbuilders go to DOCSIS 3.1 and start offering gig symmetrical?

That will never happen. Comcast already runs fiber to the home for 300 meg and up.

I would expect just about every other cable company to follow suit.

Fiber to the home is starting to reach maturity (CHEAP), and Google and Comcast will definitely accelerate that process.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Re: What happens when...

Comcast nor any other HFC have any plans on rolling out FTTH on any scale in the foreseeable future. DOCSIS 3.1 will be their upgrade path. Comcast simply had no choice for their 300Mbps plan. 3.1 can provide up to 10Gbps down.

skuv

@rr.com
There is absolutely no way that cable companies are going to throw away their investment in DOCSIS 3.0 that will be upgradeable on the CMTS side to DOCSIS 3.1 without much issue.

If they choose to also run FTTH where they can, then that is a good plan. But it would be a stupid plan to not also go to DOCSIS 3.1 to provide 1gig without having to run fiber to every house where they already have copper.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

4 edits

Re: What happens when...

DOCSIS 3.1 is aiming for 10 / 1 Gbit/s. This is not per customer speed, which is often quoted here, but rather a best case scenario using full spectrum. (not really reality ...)

DOCSIS 3.0 can easily provide 300 megs given enough channels are free, but that is the problem. No carrier has the free spectrum, thus Comcast was forced to Fiber even though 3.0 can easily pass 300 megs.

DOCSIS 3.1 aims to provide 50% more efficiency out of existing spectrum, which ultimately relates to 50% more bandwidth for the end user.

Translation: 300 megs might be doable over copper with 3.1 without concerns for node overloading.

1 Gig symmetrical? Not a chance.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Re: What happens when...

They should be able to do 1gbps/100mbps however. If marketed right, consumers won't even know the difference.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

2 edits

Re: What happens when...

Never going to happen for the exact same reason Comcast can't provide 300 megs over 3.0

With TV and lower tier internet users on a node, how many customers can you provide 1 Gbit/s to? 1? 2 maybe?
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
They don't have DOCSIS 3.1 yet. It's specifically designed for gig symmetrical. It may not reach that due to the amount of capacity used up by gig symmetrical in terms of mhz, but it will definitely bring them into direct competition with FTTH packages, even full gigabit.

DOCSIS 3.1 also comes with the possibility of pushing the system to 1.2ghz. With double the spectral efficiency, D3.1 can do over 1gbps per 100mhz given to it. With MPEG-4 and higher mhz plants, 1gbps service is not unrealistic at all.

Comcast currently has 304 mbps theoretical, and they offer 100mbps. If they get to 2gbps theoretical, what stops them from doing a gig? No one can actually utilize the full gig anyways, so the ability to share bandwidth and manage the shared bandwidth will get them to a gig without too hard of an upgrade path.

WHAT? How does no caps harm internet progress???!?!?!?!!??

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

4 edits

Re: What happens when...

There is no way they could offer 1 gig symmetrical over DOCSIS 3.1 from what is being presented to the public at this point.

The standard is envisioned to do 10 gigs down and 1 gig up PER NODE using a large amount of spectrum.

That speed could literally support 1 symmetrical GIG user per node as the standard is envisioned now.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: What happens when...

You have to look at how much bandwidth one person can actually use, and it's nowhere close to a gig. When you only have 38mbps or 304mbps, you can't have one subscriber provisioned anywhere near that. However, with gig, because there is so much bandwidth, if you manage it correctly, you could have it way oversubscribed, and still deliver incredible speeds to the end user.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: What happens when...

So in other words exactly what I said. You can not really provide one gig service. What if people, you know, start using it??

With services like Google fiber you are getting a real dedicated one gig link ( actually every Google customer has two fiber links, although one is dark for now )

A good discussion here:

»www.gfiberforum.com/forum/thread···nside%29
xenophon

join:2007-09-17

Re: What happens when...

That's very interesting if the case. Most thought Google was using Active Ethernet, but this suggests it may be a non standard GPON hybrid. Unusual for Google to use non-standard tech if the case, unless they are planning to submit it as a potential standard.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
No. They could offer a whole neighborhood gig symmetric, only one house at a time could use it. And likely, no one would notice that it's totally oversubscribed, as no one uses that much bandwidth anyways.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: What happens when...

Its ok to cheat people because they might not notice?

reasonable overselling is reality of course, but to this degree is outright dishonest

That is why Comcast runs fiber for their 300 meg connection. The analogy is essentially the same.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: What happens when...

They could do "up to" and stuff like that. "Up to 1gbps. Speeds expected of 100-300mbps". They could still effectively market against FTTH with that.
xenophon

join:2007-09-17
said by BiggA:

HFC overbuilders go to DOCSIS 3.1 and start offering gig symmetrical?

Google still wins because part of their effort is to get other ISPs to provide higher speeds more broadly. But what they also want is no caps across the board, which harms Internet progress.