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raytaylor

join:2009-07-28
kudos:1

Good brand for Licenced Link

Hi All

Have been asked to research the feasibility of getting broadband to a certain area - except we need more than 100mbit throughput.

Its going to require three hops
1) 32km / 20mi
2) 8km / 5mi
3) 9km / 5mi
4) 2km / 1.3mi

So I am wondering what you guys would recommend for licensed links.

I would prefer something in the air fibre price range for the 8 and 9km links but i think we would have issues when it rains. I am told not to expect much more than 6km in heavy downpour or rain. The repeater site between 2/3 is also 600m ASL and often in clouds.

We also dont mind if the total bandwidth is going to be 200mbit. Gigabit is awesome, but 200mbit is more than acceptable.

So i have no idea what the ideal licensed band would be - am thinking 6ghz to get through the rain.

raytaylor

join:2009-07-28
kudos:1
I just realized that for the 32km hop, the competition has a radio link that they use to feed a dslam (its between a telephone exchange and a commercial high-site)
They are using a CERAGON FIBEAIR IP-10 and the antenna is listed as an ANDREW VHLP2.5-7W

Its in 7ghz.

The link i want is pretty much running from the exact same building, and to the exact same hilltop- maybe about 50 metres more for the link path. 32kms total.

However the ceragon looks like it might offer more than we need. Its rated for 2 gigabits.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to raytaylor
Talking about Airfiber then jumping to Ceragon. That is really unusual. Most who can afford Ceragon or the likes wouldn't even mention or consider UBNT. Do you have the budget for a Ceragon link?


Rhaas
Premium
join:2005-12-19
Bernie, MO

1 recommendation

reply to raytaylor
The 32Km link will be 6ghz
The 8 & 9Km links could use 18Ghz (depending on rain zone) or 11Ghz
the 2Km link would be the only one I would even remotely consider the AirFiber for, but I would look at the SAF 24Ghz offering first. Otherwise 18Ghz will work.

I like our 11Ghz SAF link, ~8mi with 4' dishes, 366Mb full duplex.

SAF and Trango will be on the lower end of the pricing scale for licensed gear. I would lean to SAF or Exalt personally. If the budget allows then Dragonwave, alcatel-lucent etc.
--
I survived Hale-Bopp!

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to raytaylor
My upstream WISP has started upgrading backhauls to licensed links in a few parts of their network and have deployed Ceragon for two of them and really like it. They are planning on doing two more of them in the near future because once it is up, they pretty much get to forget about it. One is an 11ghz and the other is 18ghz I think. The 18ghz is only about a mile or two, and the 11ghz is around 10 miles.

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1
reply to raytaylor
said by raytaylor:

for the 32km hop, the competition ... using a CERAGON FIBEAIR IP-10

Ceragon IP-10 has many different configurations. The RFU-HS radio option supports 6-8Ghz at high TX power.

Antenna should be at least 3dB higher gain than what is predicted by their tool - you can always turn down TX power. Andrew is widely available but RFS is also excellent - you should find a good choice between them.

raytaylor

join:2009-07-28
kudos:1
reply to raytaylor
Awesome thanks guys.

I couldnt remember any of the abovementioned brand names.

Will look at the SAF first
I did look at trango's website this morning and saw they have integrated units where as the ceragon that the competition is using appears to be a split rack unit and radio with a coax cable between. I would prefer just to run ethernet and power up to the radio.

wolfcreek

join:2003-12-02
Pagosa Springs, CO

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to raytaylor
I would recommend Trango. Their products are rock solid, well priced and good company to deal with. They have some cool new all outdoor units with xpic and built in aggregation as well. They have the only 24ghz that I know of with aggregation and xpic.

We have links up to just under 50 miles with their gear and no problems. We also have Ceragon and SAF and i would say the Trango beats SAF and is as good or better than the Ceragon 1500HP. We have been using their equipment since their licensed first came out and are using radios in 6ghz, 11ghz, 18ghz and their new 24ghz unit.

We run them 1+0, 2+0 and 4+0 setups.

They have systems available as both split mount and all outdoor. the all outdoor has Ethernet and sfp for fiber. They can be powered POE or over separate power cable. The new all outdoor units have xpic and built in aggregation switch for 2+0

Your short hop links would be a good fit for 18ghz or 24 ghz and the 20 mile looks like a good fit for 11ghz depending on your local rain conditions. I believe for a single radio you will get 365 megs full duplex with Trango at full modulation in standard channel width for 11 ghz and 750 megs full duplex from the 24ghz in 60mhz channel width.
--
Remote Power Systems
Technician: Skywerx.com

raytaylor

join:2009-07-28
kudos:1
wolfcreek: have just been on the trango website and see references to xpic but cant figure out what it means - other than it goes faster.

Their website seems to keep linking back to an old one with very limited information. :-(


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8

1 recommendation


raytaylor

join:2009-07-28
kudos:1
reply to raytaylor
That was awesome. In simple terms, XPIC is just dual polarity (like dual chain 802.11n) but with some fancy signal processing at each end to further isolate the streams.

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1

1 edit
said by raytaylor:

In simple terms, XPIC is just dual polarity (like dual chain 802.11n) ...

If we ignore the interference cancellation for now, XPIC is actually very simple "polarization multiplexing" that exactly doubles the capacity with ideal dual polarity antenna.

2x2 MIMO is more complex, and works mainly "by accident" with dual polarity antennas ... unlike 2x3 or 3x3 or 2x4 MIMO which all require physically separate antennas.

rconaway8

join:2005-11-10
Phoenix, AZ
reply to raytaylor
SAF or Trango for the price. SAF has some new stuff out that is about $5K for licensed. They brought it to my office last week. Pretty impressive.

Smokeshow
Premium
join:2009-02-26
Cold Lake, AB
reply to raytaylor
Being a Canadian company, we use a lot of dragonwave equipment. We have a couple of 24GHz unlicensed links in the 25km range pushing 200mbit. Rock solid equipment for sure.

raytaylor

join:2009-07-28
kudos:1
Can you confirm that
25kms running at 24ghz?

lutful
... of ideas
Premium
join:2005-06-16
Ottawa, ON
kudos:1
said by raytaylor:

25kms running at 24ghz?

There are serious limitations imposed on 24Ghz by nature and physics. Please ask a Dragonwave engineer at Ottawa HQ about maximum range under ideal conditions.

Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2
reply to Smokeshow
24GHz at 25KM? This I gotta see.

Smokeshow
Premium
join:2009-02-26
Cold Lake, AB
You're right. I was wrong. They are 19 & 20 km. Still pretty good imo. If we had heavy rain in the area, I'm sure these would be terrible links.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

1 recommendation

reply to Rhaas
+1 on the SAF gear. I would try to consolidate on a band IF possible just to cut back on the amount of spare gear you have to stock though that may be a little hard on the short links.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.