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Ronnybee

@eastlink.ca

[Help] 2005 Kia Sedona V6 problems not idling!

Hi, My problem is that my Kia Sedona doesn't want to idle at all. I have to keep one foot on the gas to make sure it idles at stop sign or anywhere. I brought the van to the dealership for diagnostic and another thing is the engine light never came on also, so no code was showing up and after 3 days and $600.00 later still at the shop, they still don't know how to fix this problem. Now they told me the van doesn't even want to start anymore as it did before entering their shop and the motor only turns...They did 3 different diagnostic with nothing. They're confused and I'm confused and frustrated right now! Any kind of help or anyone encounter this problem would be appreciated to hear how you resolved this. Thank you for the help.

Ron.

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
How was it running off idle? Any stumble or hesitation? Acceleration power OK?


Ronnybee

@eastlink.ca
thank you for your reply, I would drive it and it would ride at low speed with lots hesitating and hick ups and at high speed like on the highway I would put it on cruise and it would run ok with no hesitation. Later I disconnected the "Mass Air Flow Censor" and it would run at low speed in town with no hick ups but yes it did bring up the engine light but only then i get the engine light on. Kia called their head office technicien with no answers! They cleaned up all what they thought it could be the problem, the mass air flow, the idle censor, the timing belt is dead on, the gas pressure is also great and everything about the motor is great and I only have 110,000 km on it.


MooJohn

join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Windstream
reply to Ronnybee
If it runs ok with the MAF sensor disconnected it means one of two things:

1) The MAF sensor is bad.

2) There is a leak of metered air somewhere after the sensor.

#2 is far more common and of course is harder to test. Those leaks could be anything from a simple vacuum hose disconnected to a bad intake manifold gasket and everything in between. Basically anything that leaks air could be the culprit.

You would think that a dealer with the factory diagnostic tools could pinpoint the problem pretty quickly...
--
John M - Cranky network guy

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Ronnybee
MAF was a good guess for the hesitating and hiccups symptoms, although I would expect a lean code to be set at some point.
I assume your dealer has covered the basics of what an engine needs to start, that is; fuel, spark and timing. Perhaps the grounds need to be checked.


Ronnybee

@eastlink.ca
thank you for the help, As far as the dealership goes, yes they went through all the testing of what you mentionned and they told me that it doesn't seemed to be any air leak problem but the mechanic also told me it could be AIC (Idle Air Control) or a computer related problem...the ECM...so the way I was going with them not knowing and the van still in the shop it was costing me more $$$ as it is...frustrating to pay for nothing to show for!They also said that the catalic converter is in good shape, not the problem , the mass air flow cesor is also good and clean, not the problem, the timing belt is at the proper spot, not the problem, spark plugs are carbonized, but that wouldn't be the problem for idling...

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms

2 edits
said by Ronnybee :

spark plugs are carbonized, but that wouldn't be the problem for idling...

Carboned plugs means running rich, which fits with unplugging the MAF (which will lean the mixture) to alieviate a rich stumble and rough idle.
I wonder if the long term fuel trim value corroborates this. As long as it hasn't been unplugged or reset, the data should be available.


MooJohn

join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Windstream
reply to Ronnybee
The MAF can be spotlessly clean but still defective. A bad IAC can prevent the engine from idling but it won't stop it from running otherwise.

Unplugging the MAF forces the ECU to use static and/or calculated values for the data it normally provides. If there is a leak and the MAF was reporting the true amount of air flowing through it, the substituted data with the MAF unplugged won't show this extra air and thus the engine will run.

Like Tig said, fuel trim values would show whether there has been a leak. Any decent OBDII reader can see those; the factory tools should be able to go much more in depth.

They should be ashamed of themselves for charging $600 without being any closer to knowing what is wrong, let alone fixing the actual problem.
--
John M - Cranky network guy


Ronnybee

@eastlink.ca
I thank you again all for trying to help me in this matter and Ok I should try and replace that MAF cesor because like you said when I did unplug it it run but it would take up more gasoline...reason why my spark plugs are carbonised. It makes sense what your saying regarding the MAF...could be defective even if the dealership computer didn't get any codes regarding it? Ok the other problem now is it's not starting as before I brought it in to the dealership it would start. Probable cause may be that MAF and I will try this next step and see what happens, Thank you again for the help.

Ron.

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
As MooJohn says, a bad MAF won't stop the engine. If it were my fingers in that engine, I'd suspect me and i'd recheck everything I did before it stopped running.
In any case, please update us on your progress and resolution. I'm curious about the rough idle.
BTW, OBD scanners can be had for under $14 online. Along with a smart phone, you can monitor the operation of most engine sensors in real time as well as review trim values. Very helpful stuff for getting your head around what's going on.


Ronnybee

@eastlink.ca
Hello and here is an update of what I did today, I changed the MAF sensor and it still doesn't want to start, if it would start I would know if the van idles now or not but it only cranks up (motor turning without a start). The mechanic at Kia motors told me that it could be the ECM (car computer module) that could be the problem for not startin up???

Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
That's a pretty expensive guess. Is that the same shop that made youR van not start?
Go back to basics. Fuel and spark.
Remove a spark plug. Is it wet? If so then it's evidence of fuel. Step away from the vehicle and burn the plug's electrode and insulator clean with a match.
Connect the plug to the wire and lay it on the block so that the body of the plug is grounded. Have someone crank the engine while you watch the plug. (careful of your fingers and clothes, lot of dangerous things turning under the hood.) Is there spark? Best to do this in the shadows for easier viewing.
If there is spark, then the ECM would seem to be OK. At the same time no spark can be caused by other things such as bad crank sensor.
Another thought. When you turn on the ignition to the run position, do you hear the fuel pump cycle up?


Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Ronnybee
Bad fuel is another possibility.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.