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nanook
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join:2007-12-02
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Effort afoot in court to sue Canadians for illegal downloads

A PR marketing piece by Canipre

Effort afoot in court to sue Canadians for illegal downloads
quote:
On the other side of the case is Teksavvy, an Ontario-based Internet provider. The IP addresses flagged by Canipre link back to its users. The case is set to resume next month. If the court orders Teksavvy to hand over customer info, it could be the beginning of a new chapter in the anti-piracy battle in Canada.
"We have a long list of clients waiting to go to court," said Canipre's Logan, who estimates that about 100 different companies are paying close attention to the case...




shrug

@videotron.ca
From today:
Anti-piracy firm targeting Canadians who download illegally
»www.theglobeandmail.com/ ··· 1877622/


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to nanook
Well ... I hope you've been paying attention to Prenda Law in the U.S. cause this shit is gona end too. Canipre is going down the same nefarious trail. And we can only hope they end up with an epic fail.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
They posted it on CTV too.

»www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ef ··· .1277870
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP

Rastan

join:2007-04-25
Canada
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reply to nanook
From the article:

"Logan (managing director of Canipre) wants piracy to become a taboo, much like drinking-and-driving is now."

Good luck with that. Drinking and driving is dangerous and can cause deaths. File sharing is safe and harmless. Idiot.


rodjames
Premium
join:2010-06-19
Gloucester, ON
reply to nanook
I'm behind over 9000 proxies, good luck finding me.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to nanook
Good luck Canipre. And may you fail miserably.

Oh and might I add



Piracy Handy Guide by Travelin' Librarian, on Flickr

Rastan

join:2007-04-25
Canada
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reply to rodjames
They don't care about people who are computer savvy. They want to "change attitudes and culture" and target the casual file sharer who's unable to distinguish legitimate files from the fake ones they upload.

They're scum who have created a business out of suing people and they pretend to take the moral high road by calling file sharers thieves who have a sense of entitlement. I hope they go down the same road Prenda Law is currently travelling.

tedrampart

join:2011-12-13
London, ON
reply to nanook
I find it interesting that the Guardian quotes Fewer saying " there has only been a single file-sharing lawsuit in Canada, launched by the music industry. The case, BMG Canada Inc. vs. John Doe, was launched in 2004, and it failed."

then the next few paragraphs it quotes Logan " "We understand the culture of piracy," Logan said, adding that he has been involved in numerous IP-related litigation cases across Canada."

I'm sure he's referring to non-copyright IP cases correct? Regardless, in my 15+ years of working in social services, when some says they're involved with "numerous" whatevers, it's code for bullshit. meaning they're interested and want to be seem involved.. really stands out with conflicting sentiments.. Mind you I could be wrong, since I don't know Logan from a hole in the ground nor his involvement beyond this Canipre garbage.. I do know how to smell bullshit, and the scent is ripe with him and his copytheft goons.


FiberToTheX
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reply to Rastan
said by Rastan:

They don't care about people who are computer savvy. They want to "change attitudes and culture" and target the casual file sharer who's unable to distinguish legitimate files from the fake ones they upload.

They're scum who have created a business out of suing people and they pretend to take the moral high road by calling file sharers thieves who have a sense of entitlement. I hope they go down the same road Prenda Law is currently travelling.

The Irony in this world is that those who were and still are responsible for the ongoing 2008 Financial crisis have not been charged or even held responsible. However any normal person doing anything is considered a crime and those who do it at a high level is considered 'Above the Law'. Thats essentially how the world works where High Class Criminals are not held accountable and those without connections or 'Low Class' criminals are held accountable and charged. In Essence if you were a suit it is legal and acceptable and reversed it is illegal and unacceptable.

dlinker

join:2012-03-02
Mississauga, ON
reply to nanook
What I don't understand is why Teksavvy's is the only name that keeps coming up in the 'long list of clients waiting to go to court' and no other company.

Just a question is all.


Dlinkr

@teksavvy.com
reply to nanook
Just curious as to why Teksavvy was singled out in the article.

ctggzg
Premium
join:2005-02-11
USA
kudos:2
reply to Rastan
said by Rastan:

Good luck with that. Drinking and driving is dangerous and can cause deaths. File sharing is safe and harmless. Idiot.

I don't know why you guys get so defensive. It's almost like you actually think you're not doing anything wrong. Sad.


OhWoW

@teksavvy.com
To be fair the example they provided about drunk driving was absolutely ridiculous. Yes, it's wrong, but it's no where near as wrong.

GreenEnvy22

join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON

1 recommendation

reply to ctggzg
said by ctggzg:

said by Rastan:

Good luck with that. Drinking and driving is dangerous and can cause deaths. File sharing is safe and harmless. Idiot.

I don't know why you guys get so defensive. It's almost like you actually think you're not doing anything wrong. Sad.

I struggle with that too. I've downloaded stuff online I shouldn't have, but i knew it was wrong. As I matured I adjusted my behaviour. I don't delude myself into thinking it's fine to do.

People try to make a living producing songs, movies, and applications/games. Why do you feel it's perfectly ok to deprive those creative people of their hard earned money.

Now I find many faults with how the industries work. They give very little money to the actual artists, they try to nickel and dime you for every little thing, and try to make you pay for the same thing several times. However that doesn't make pirating it OK.

Rastan

join:2007-04-25
Canada
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reply to ctggzg
I'm not getting defensive, I'm pointing out the ridiculous comparison. I also don't think we should be lectured by someone who profits from threatening people with massive lawsuits. Isn't that wrong?

The most vocal people who are against file sharing are the ones who are the most morally bankrupt. From the recording industry executives and middlemen who take advantage of musicians, right down to the people who run or work for companies like Canipre and Prenda Law, who take advantage of people who aren't familiar with copyright law.

These people are scum so I really don't understand why anyone should feel bad about sharing copyrighted material and it's certainly not as bad as drinking and driving. Only an idiot would make such a comparison.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to GreenEnvy22
This case is not about the legality of piracy, it's about a company using its position to extort money out of a supposed list of BitTorrent users who allegedly committed copyright infringement. The current copyright law is not intended for that type of legal action and they still have to somehow prove the users on the list intended to commit copyright infringement.


TypeS

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said by mlerner:

This case is not about the legality of piracy, it's about a company using its position to extort money out of a supposed list of BitTorrent users who allegedly committed copyright infringement. The current copyright law is not intended for that type of legal action and they still have to somehow prove the users on the list intended to commit copyright infringement.

This. Voltage isn't really out to rectify what little harm piracy has done do the media business, but to take advantage of the situation to blackmail 1000s.

There honestly needs to be true case of piracy with concrete evidence brought forward in Canadian courts as a test case of copyright law. But this Voltage case is not that.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to dlinker
said by dlinker:

What I don't understand is why Teksavvy's is the only name that keeps coming up in the 'long list of clients waiting to go to court' and no other company.

Just a question is all.

Because the only other p2p lawsuit (also Canipre-caused) has been put on hold in Montreal, pending resolution of this case. This is despite the different plaintiffs, different defendants, and different ISPs involved.

Essentially NGN Productions (Montreal p2p suit), is waiting for the evidential trial in the Teksavvy case to go through, so as not to waste time/money in case the evidence gets tossed - if it gets tossed in the Voltage/Teksavvy case, Distributel et all can bring up the ruling by the judge in the Teksavvy case, and get THEIR case tossed.

Same 'evidence' company, same methods, same program, same faulty 'evidence' collection.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


fatness
subtle
Premium,ex-mod 01-13
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:14
reply to GreenEnvy22

(topic move) Effort afoot in court to sue Canadians for illegal

Moderator Action
The post that was here (and all 3 followups to it), has been moved to a new topic .. »(post #28284455 no longer exists)

GreenEnvy22

join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON
reply to mlerner

Re: Effort afoot in court to sue Canadians for illegal downloads

Oh I'm in full agreement the tactics used are shady/wrong, no arguing that.
But it's the attitude of some people that think they have a "right" to download whatever they want without paying for it that irks me. A lot of people claim they want to see hard proof of pirating before they accept a lawsuit, but then try to block any law that would allow said proof to be collected.

Voltage, Canipre and friends are all borderline extorting people and it should be stopped, but at the same time people legitimately making movies/music/games should have a way of fighting pirating.

It's like driving cars. I speed, but I know it's wrong and if I get caught I will pay the ticket. A lot of the downloaders come across to me as the type that will fight a speeding ticket even though they know they were indeed speeding and deserve the ticket.


canUFO

@torservers.net
"Voltage, Canipre and friends are all borderline extorting people and it should be stopped, but at the same time people legitimately making movies/music/games should have a way of fighting pirating."

If "works" have no real value no one is going to buy them no matter how clever RICO scheme is. The time is coming when those who are sucking blood from artists will need to change line of business and open barber shops or grocery stores so they still can live from reselling someone elses legitimately made goods and services.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

1 edit
reply to TypeS
said by TypeS:

There honestly needs to be true case of piracy with concrete evidence brought forward in Canadian courts as a test case of copyright law. But this Voltage case is not that.

Canada still makes arrests over those selling physical copies. I know I saw a more recent one, but for example:

»www.thestar.com/news/cri ··· ust.html

These types of pirates are taking dollars away from people that might actually purchase copies from legitimate sources. With technology such that it is (colour laser, printable or lightscribe dvds, etc) that some purchasers might not realize they're even purchasing an illegal copy. I also suspect that you would have to do a hell of a volume to make this worth your while (time and supplies).

I don't know, the issue is complicated. I'm using Netflix more and more. The thing I don't get is that I pay for my cable, and I have a DVD recorder hooked up to it. Recording is okay (I believe). However, if I miss setting something to record why do I suddenly become a pirate if I download an episode of something I've missed. Nobody has lost income (as I could wait for the inevitable re-run to record it), and I don't fileshare, so I'm not providing. However, I'm still technically lumped into the same category as someone who decides to cut their cable and download everything.

Sadly, there's little on cable at the moment that encourages me to continue it. I have a fair amount of purchased items (don't want to consider the dollar value there), home recorded items, and yes, some downloaded items. I could probably comfortably cut the cable and settle for Netflix and my own content.

ETA: Oh, and in the 'good old days' when there happened to be three things you wanted to watch in one time slot... that was two VCRs and watching one live. Nowadays I can't even think of any time slot with three programs I'd want to watch.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N

1 edit
Here's the article I remember that was recent:

»www.insidehalton.com/new ··· eit-ring

Here's a tip - if someone is selling a boxed set that is (a) not available anywhere or (b) a quarter of the cost of anywhere else, it's probably a fake set downloaded. I remember running across these sites when looking to see if someone of my old faves were available on DVD. Too good to be true, usually is. The real question is - if the quality had been better would people have turned them in?

(and obviously still going strong)

Memory Lane DVD - all 9 seasons of Coach
»memorylanedvd.com/produc ··· 0&page=1

TV Shows on DVD - only 4 seasons released
»www.tvshowsondvd.com/rel ··· owID=158

(I tend to use them for a source, but a quick check of Amazon shows the same - only 4 seasons released)


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
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reply to A Lurker
said by A Lurker:

said by TypeS:

There honestly needs to be true case of piracy with concrete evidence brought forward in Canadian courts as a test case of copyright law. But this Voltage case is not that.

I don't know, the issue is complicated. I'm using Netflix more and more. The thing I don't get is that I pay for my cable, and I have a DVD recorder hooked up to it. Recording is okay (I believe). However, if I miss setting something to record why do I suddenly become a pirate if I download an episode of something I've missed. Nobody has lost income (as I could wait for the inevitable re-run to record it), and I don't fileshare, so I'm not providing. However, I'm still technically lumped into the same category as someone who decides to cut their cable and download everything.

Well for a long time it's been settled (at least here in Canada) that downloading/recording a copy of media (music or video) is not illegal since it is akin photocopying something at library, VHS recording or cassette recording radio songs in the 1990s.

You'll never get into hot water for downloading via one way methods like HTTP, FTP, DCC, etc. The method in question is torrents. Participating in the facilitation of file sharing is illegal in Canada just like it is to be selling bootleg DVDs. Most should know by now how BitTorrent works, you're downloading and uploading at the same time.

The issue that needs to be clarified is exactly how much damage is done when someone downloads a file via a torrent. Most people are what private tracker operators call "hit and runs", they finish the download and delete the torrent. Given how paltry most upload speeds are in North America, I'd find it hard to believe any one person actually even uploaded the equivalent data amount that they downloaded, let alone all the pieces one time each that make up the file. So the question is, how much damage was really done to potential revenue of a select film/music album/video game that was downloaded via a torrent by one individual?

It'd probably only amount to dollars a person. But that would be costly legally to go after everyone, not to mention most likely impossible. So companies like Canpire are around to facilitate blackmailing those they can.

There are of course hosting companies that advertise "seeding boxes", if MPAA was serious, they'd go after these folks since they will be doing much more damage than all residential downloaders combined. You don't see private trackers going down often either, one of the first places SCENE stuff shows up before hitting public trackers and other p2p networks.

If the movie, music and game industries were hurting so much from pirating, they'd go source rather (taking down public trackers and suing Joe & Jane does nothing do dent pirating).


AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
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reply to nanook
Yeah well good luck trying to prove an IP is a specific person. It hasn't worked in the US and I doubt Canadian judges will fall for this scam either. Truth is Canpire has amassed a rather odorous reputation.
--
BHell... A Public Futility. When life throws you lemons, make lemonade.


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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reply to GreenEnvy22
No...it's not okay what people do, however, it's also not okay the way they're trying to deal with it.

To some extent, the music industry has 'changed' and I'm pretty sure most people don't download music "illegally" anymore, or at least not as much as they used to.

The industry needs to change the way it operates. And going after potential buyers isn't the way to do it.

Also, doesn't help that they keep comparing downloading movies to things like drinking and driving and killing someone.

And there were much worse crimes, including corrupt CEO's that harm the economy.
--
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein


J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
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kudos:1
reply to A Lurker
Technically speaking, recording broadcasts is illegal, and always has been. It's just never been enforced or taken to court. It was an issue back when VCR's first came out, but again, nothing much was ever done about it.
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. - Albert Einstein
Expand your moderator at work


nanook
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join:2007-12-02
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reply to J E F F

Re: Effort afoot in court to sue Canadians for illegal downloads

said by J E F F:

The industry needs to change the way it operates. And going after potential buyers isn't the way to do it.

Correct on both counts. Before there were recordings, an artist made money through live performances only. Somehow they managed to eke out a living, the better ones even a very good living.

Then wax, later vinyl, records came out. It was impractical to copy them, so their publishers could make money on every [original] copy.

Then as audio cassettes and especially CDs came out it became possible for end users to copy. Artists and publishers who adapted (e.g. iTunes et al sites) have done OK.

Those who haven't are engaged in a losing battle as we know. (Imagine if the buggy whip makers had insisted that governments mandate a buggy whip in every car in order to save their industry...)