dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
2987
share rss forum feed

Body Count

join:2010-09-11
Columbus, OH

Underway with basement data rack

Click for full size
Click for full size
Click for full size
Went ahead and started after my other EMI thread everyone said I was worried about nothing.

Got the Rack, UPS shelf, UPS, Fire Extinguisher, Overhead Light, Grounding Block, and Coax Patch Panel.

Also ran an appliance power cord from a wall plug underneath where the bottom beam is which is connecting to the UPS.

Next step is to ground the rack somehow (local hardware didn't have anything to clamp onto metal and hold a copper wire). Get a smoke alarm to place overhead. Then I'll be running coax and cat5 to all my bedrooms and several spots in the living-room and some in my future man cave which we call the fireplace room.

I'll update when I get that far with pics. I can only work on this on the weekends due to having a mon-fri job.

Before anyone asks why I installed a 24 port coax panel, the 16 port panel was almost double the price.


old_tech
Premium
join:2013-03-31
Springfield, IL
You do not need to ground the rack, so it is really a moot point. As for the ground distribution block, you do not need it, if you already have the static block outside connected to the earth ground rod, where it enters the building.

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to Body Count
said by Body Count:

Get a smoke alarm to place overhead.

Are you afraid of your network rack catching on fire or something???

Body Count

join:2010-09-11
Columbus, OH

1 recommendation

said by TheMG See Profile
Are you afraid of your network rack catching on fire or something???

Adding a shelf at the bottom for my main cable box, one PoE injector, and 16 port netgear switch. With those three and my UPS, it's a cheap preventive measure in case something blows up. Spend $15 on it or have a small chance something fries and starts a fire around all those wood beams and I lose my house.

Body Count

join:2010-09-11
Columbus, OH
reply to old_tech
said by old_tech:

You do not need to ground the rack, so it is really a moot point. As for the ground distribution block, you do not need it, if you already have the static block outside connected to the earth ground rod, where it enters the building.

I don't have an earth ground rod. My fuse box ground wire is connected to the same cold water pipe about 10 feet away.

I just wanted the rack grounded to help with any stray EMI. Also going to use it for grounding some coax splitters and a coax inline surge protector.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
reply to Body Count
Grounding (bonding) the server rack is a good idea. For those playing along at home, it is a minimum requirement by code (NEC 645.15). On large racks, this is usually accomplished with the PDU for the rack.
Most racks (including tiny ones like yours) that I've met come with a grounding lug, or at the very least instructions for grounding / bonding.

If you want to buy a rack grounding kit, they are a dime a dozen. Realistically, you just need to screw a lug from Menard's Lowe's Depot into the rack that is capable of accepting the wire size you will be using.

Keeping all systems at the same potential (within reason) is the goal.

This has nothing to do with EMI. I'm not sure why you are so hung up on EMI.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Body Count
You may want to relocate that fire bottle.

If the rack is truly on fire, think how close you want to get to it? and how close is the fire extinguisher?

If it were me, I would mount it at least 10-15 feet away from the rack and in the path you would follow from upstairs to the rack. 15' is close enough for a rapid response ( 5 steps, 5 seconds ) but not so close it may put you at risk if the rack is involved.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
reply to Body Count
Why is the length of the shelf the UPS sitting on so long? Is the UPS plugged into the power strip and where does the power strip plug in? It's not evident in your pictures.

Body Count

join:2010-09-11
Columbus, OH
reply to Body Count
Yeah the fire extinguisher is a little close. I should place it by the stairs but I need to move some stuff around first. Like a wall bolted shelf.

And the shelf is long because it was the shortest one my local Menards had. I don't plan on placing anything on the end of the shelf. It's there to hold any misc parts like rj-45 ends or coax ends while I build the rack.

The power cord is plugged into an outlet roughly 15 feet away. I bought a large appliance extension cord and routed it under where the rack in with hooks. The UPS cord goes down the right side with hooks to hold it in place and then under the entire unit. My goal is to separate the power cords and the data/coax. Data/coax is all on the left and top side of the rack. Power cords will all be on the bottom and right side of the rack.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
reply to old_tech
said by old_tech:

You do not need to ground the rack, so it is really a moot point.

This is bad advice and I would suggest you ignore it...


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to Body Count
I would reconsider the UPS shelf. Those things (UPS) are freaking heavy.

If I were you, I'd bolt a shelf length wise to the concrete wall.
That way the UPS is in the same location, facing the same way, but most of its weight isn't suspended so far from the brackets

edit - Oh and if possible, I'd hang is way lower. Basically, JUST above the ground, that way there's no chance it falls on your head if you were working underneath the rack.


jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:3
reply to Body Count
I'd be careful with that florescent lamp. They can throw off a lot of EMI.

Body Count

join:2010-09-11
Columbus, OH
reply to Body Count
The UPS shelf is in a spot where no one will walk underneath. There's a chest freezer directly underneath. I don't plan on placing anything on the end of the shelf and the UPS is back far enough where it's sitting on the supports mostly.

The light does give off a lot of EMI but it will only be on when I'm working on the rack which means after everything is up, basically maybe one or two times a year.


dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to nunya
said by nunya:

Grounding (bonding) the server rack is a good idea.

Completely agreed.

said by nunya:

On large racks, this is usually accomplished with the PDU for the rack.

What accomplishes the bonding can vary ... in most Telco offices & data centers I've worked in, we bond the racks to the under-floor reference grid. In any event, adjacent racks also have bonding straps between them, above and beyond the typical tie-kits, since the tie-kits install on top of the painted or powder-coated surface. I "usually" do not rely on the PDU for grounding....

Of course, we're not working on raised floor here, so I doubt he has a signal reference grid....


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to 54067323
Does he HAVE to ground it? Probably not. However grounding it certainly won't hurt anything. It looks like there is a round just inches from the rack so why not ground it just to be on the safe side?
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
said by battleop:

It looks like there is a round just inches from the rack so why not ground it just to be on the safe side?

The pipes to the left look like gas (not to be used for grounding) and it appears the OP has his ground bar connected to a copper water pipe already.

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to dennismurphy
said by dennismurphy:

What accomplishes the bonding can vary ... in most Telco offices & data centers I've worked in, we bond the racks to the under-floor reference grid. In any event, adjacent racks also have bonding straps between them, above and beyond the typical tie-kits, since the tie-kits install on top of the painted or powder-coated surface. I "usually" do not rely on the PDU for grounding....

Of course, we're not working on raised floor here, so I doubt he has a signal reference grid....

We run 3/0 wire from the grounding rod/ring system to a large copper buss plate in the building, and then have 3/0 from there to a copper buss plate near each row of racks. From there, it's #8 to a copper buss bar in each rack, mounted opposite the PDU. Most pieces of rackmount equipment then are grounded with #12 to those buss bars. That is in addition to having each rack strapped to each other, coaxial cable grounding and surge protection, and of course electrical system ground.

The goal is to keep everything at equal potential, to prevent or minimize damage in the event of lightning strikes.

For the OP's situation however, we're not really concerned too much about any of that. A single ground wire to a lug on the rack shall suffice (scrape away any paint for good contact).

Body Count

join:2010-09-11
Columbus, OH
reply to 54067323
said by 54067323:

said by battleop:

It looks like there is a round just inches from the rack so why not ground it just to be on the safe side?

The pipes to the left look like gas (not to be used for grounding) and it appears the OP has his ground bar connected to a copper water pipe already.

Pipes on the left are gas and I wanted to keep the grounding block as far away as I can from that. Last thing I need is lightning to strike, energize my water pipe system, then have it arc to the gas pipe and I blow up.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
said by Body Count:

Pipes on the left are gas and I wanted to keep the grounding block as far away as I can from that. Last thing I need is lightning to strike, energize my water pipe system, then have it arc to the gas pipe and I blow up.

Doesn't quite work like that; plus the gas piping should already be bonded to ground, and the water piping.

Grounding & Bonding is a science, mixed with a little art - really, you're going way beyond what's needed, as I imagine everything you're installing is AC powered; and should be grounded via the power cords.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
reply to Body Count
That's counter intuitive. Metallic gas lines are required to be bonded to the electrical grounding system.
Not bonding it is what causes explosions.

The gas pipe may not be used as a grounding electrode. These days, the underground pipe is plastic, or there is (should be) a dielectric fitting near the gas meter. The internal gas piping should be bonded to power.

This used to be accomplished by the utilization equipments equipment grounding conductor ("ground"). In other words, the ground for the furnace, range, etc...
However, since the inception of CSST, especially for last joint connections, the fuel gas code was changed to require the system be bonded by a #6 copper (at least). NEC is not as stringent, therefore NFGC is the defacto standard.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
said by nunya:

NEC is not as stringent, therefore NFGC is the defacto standard.

In Canada, we take it a step further... It's actually in the fire code, that when two other codes or regulations overlap (on the same topic); the more restrictive shall apply.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to 54067323
I'm just curious as to what in my statement had anything to do with the gas lines?

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to Body Count
said by Body Count:

Last thing I need is lightning to strike, energize my water pipe system, then have it arc to the gas pipe and I blow up.

You're over-thinking things, AGAIN!

First of all, the gas pipe should already be bonded to ground same as the water piping.

Secondly, that's black iron pipe, it's going to take one HELL of an arc to pierce through that. That type of piping is quite significantly more resistant than CSST, which is extremely thin by comparison.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Body Count
I'd install a big tank of nitrogen in the room, pipe it to the rack using iron pipe and use a temperature sensitive fire sprinkler head on the end of the pipe. If your gear starts a fire, the nitrogen will be released and extinguish the fire. Just wear you SCBA mask/tank when you enter the room


pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3
Every server room should have a properly installed and tested inert-gas fire suppression system installed. Please don't gamble with your life OP.


old_tech
Premium
join:2013-03-31
Springfield, IL
To everyone, this is not a server room, and also as for what the OP is doing, there are no rules for them to ground the rack in a residential setiing, or go theough what they are doing.

I can tell that by what they have posted, they are foing to first create a ground loop with the coax setup, and also there is no mention of a gfci outlet, since this is an unfinished space.

Again, this is an example of going to the extreme, along with someone that does not know what they are doing, when it comes to doing this stuff.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
You are wrong. There are rules and I've already posted them once in this thread.
Just because you don't follow them, it doesn't mean they don't exist.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


old_tech
Premium
join:2013-03-31
Springfield, IL

1 edit
said by nunya:

You are wrong. There are rules and I've already posted them once in this thread.
Just because you don't follow them, it doesn't mean they don't exist.

Wrong. Again, there are no rules stating that a network rack has to be grounded in a residential setting.

The citations you posted apply to commercial installations. Find me one or any of the hundreds of residential installs that are grounded or bonded to earth ground, also I want pictures with that.

I can tell you that from the hundreds that I have done in residential settings, not one has been grounded, or been tagged as incorrectly installed, due to they fall under a different category, which is "Low Voltage" installations, which the rules are very lax in a lot of states, when it comes to network & a/v wiring.

If the OP wants to ground the cabinet, they are free to do it, but I am stating, that there is no requirement in a residential setting, nor is there any requirement to install smoke detectors or a fire extinguisher or suppression system, which again is not a requirement in pretty much all states, when putting in a catv/video/network rack.

If this was a NOC or data center in an office, or data center in a factory, yes they would be required to follow the rules in the NEC in U.S., Canadian codes if in Canada, California codes if in California, to have suppression systems, grounding and bonding of the racks to the proper grounding systems.

The only thing that the OP is required to do, since that install is in an unfinished space, is a grounded GFCI protected outlet, and that is it. As for the bonding bar for who knows what, and the fact that they are so scared of the perceived high amount of EMI floating around their home, without taking any real measurements, tells me that they are not really knowing how to do this properly, and also should not be taking this on, because I am going to say that they will not only end up creating a ground loop if they start running ground wires to the rack and the blocks to interconnect all that coax to, but also the fact that if they do not know how to run the ground properly, if they do decide to ground that low voltage rack, containing the coax & ethernet connections, it will end up being ineffective anyways.

Body Count

join:2010-09-11
Columbus, OH
reply to Body Count
I work with data racks at my job. All the data racks I've ever worked with are grounded. Granted it's a business type rack and all the grounds are copper poles that are deep in the ground.

I admit I do not know the building codes for residential housing in terms of setting up a data rack. That doesn't mean I shouldn't be taking this on. I'm going by the racks I work with at my job. I see they are grounded. I see fire suppression gas systems inside the server room (I wont go that far).

I have a wife and three year old son. Yes the chances are almost nil that something will blow up. But you better believe me that I'm more than willing to spend $15 on a smoke alarm even if it gave me a small chance to save my family. Just because I put one up doesn't make me an idiot and me not knowing what I'm doing. It makes me safer beyond what is really needed. It gives me a little peace of mind when I'm in bed at 3 AM and not stressed out because something is overheating in my data rack.

My ground is run properly. This is according to how the house was built back in 1967. The fuse box ground is clamped onto the same cold water pipe.

Maybe I am overreacting on the EMI. Better safe then sorry. How stupid will I feel if I got all the cables ran and terminated, all the equipment up, and my network stops working. Then I'm left starting over running all new cables to everywhere.


nunya
LXI 483
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
reply to old_tech
There is no differentiation in 645 regarding commercial or residential, other than saying they are typically found in commercial situations.
If you really want to get down to it, 250.4 (amongst many other citations in 250) pretty much say that any metallic equipment, regardless of voltage, is getting bonded or grounded.
So if you want to get down to brass tacks, it's accepted industry practice (and has been for the decades I've worked in the industry) that racks are bonded / grounded - regardless of locale. This is irrespective of your interpretation of the code.
So just because you've been doing it wrong, it doesn't mean everybody does.
Lax enforcement does not render a practice acceptable.

I see people driving 85 miles an hour down the interstate every day. They can do that, because there is no authority around to enforce the speed limit. It still doesn't make it right.

I agree that the fire extinguisher, smoke alarm, and EMI worries are a bit excessive, to say the least.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.