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18286719

join:2013-02-02
Whistler, BC

1 edit

Shaw vs Telus : Latency and Jitter

in this post i will be comparing the ping and jitter quality across Canada and the States for Shaw and Telus, my personal reasons behind this are gaming related, but that's still not the only reason better ping and jitter matters, ever since i switched to Shaw i have been hearing that the east coast routing isn't very good, especially to Texas, i have found this to be fairly true and wanted to put some light on the issue, it would be nice if Shaw improved there routing to the eastern and or southern states (at first i thought it was an eastern problem, now i'm thinking its a southern problem, as Shaw does have fiber going across most of Canada it helps with north eastern connections allot actually.

For this test i used the same laptop, for Telus wired directly to my v1000h, 15 meg plan, vdsl2+ on the 17a profile, 1 other computer was connected wireless i believe but doing nothing on the network, i performed all tests at least 3 times to ensure consistency and the best results possible

for the Shaw i have my Cisco DPC 3825 in bridge mode, bb100, 1 IP to one Xbox (which was in use during test, probably hosting) and 1 IP going to my router (D Link DIR 655) which was directly wired to my laptop, and i did have a few devices connected to the DIR using the network, i will perform direct tests to the Shaw modem at 0% network capacity in order to ensure i'm not loosing anything as it passes through my router(i suspect saving 1-3 ping, and possibly getting ride of a little jitter), plz ignore the differences in distance to locations as the internet thinks the location of my Shaw IP is north eastern canada

i will do cities in alphabetical order, Shaw first, then Telus.

Austin, TX (Telus Wins)






Brooklyn, NY (Shaw Wins)






Calgary, AB (Shaw Wins)






Chicago, IL (Shaw Wins)






Dallas, TX (Telus Wins)




Denver, CO (Shaw Wins)




Los Angeles, CA (Shaw Wins)




Lynwood, WA (Shaw Wins, Closest ping test to me)




Orlando, FL (Shaw somehow wins)




Saint Cloud, MN (Shaw Wins)




San Francisco, CA (Shaw Wins)




Tampa, FL (Telus Wins)




Toronto, ON (Shaw Wins)




Washington DC (Telus Wins)




jtl999
CEO of Actiontec Dev Team

join:2012-11-24
In the GVRD
kudos:4
Your on ADSL. Which would explain the 30 second ping to Lynwood. If you had VDSL2 or special low latency profile the ping would be the same or better on Telus.


18286719

join:2013-02-02
Whistler, BC
incorect im on vdsl2+ and the 17a profile, want proof? ill post pics kinda anoyin tho


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to 18286719
The problem with routing isn't always necessarily how your ISP connects to the provider, but how they connect together. This has been posted numerous times, and a simple search could of brought you these answers. Shaw tends to peer with certain providers better, where as Telus does not. When they peer in certain locations, you will get the best route through them. For instance Internap, you should get better pings with Shaw to any of their locations compared to Telus.

FYI, you will peer directly with Shaw to Internap in Seattle through the SIX.


18286719

join:2013-02-02
Whistler, BC
if u subtract the 10-15 ping difference (to van) i gain from telus to shaw, telus would be faster everywhere tho, my only limitation is this vdsl2+

my theory is if you had ftth on telus you would be getting pings faster to everywhere with the telus, just cause of that 10-15ms you would save on your way to dslam or central office or w/e

ps rusty, most people dont have access to telus and shaw lines and the exact same time in the same house side by side on the same laptop with the same cat 6 in between the routers, i would be very surprised if people could post similar thing to me showing there telus and shaw lines directly compared


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to 18286719
Fiber doesn't have the overhead you see with cable and such.


18286719

join:2013-02-02
Whistler, BC
i dont know or care what ur saying, fiber is better lmfao what r u trying to prove???????????


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to 18286719
There's just too many variables for this type of comparison.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to 18286719
Basically, use whichever provider gives you better times to the places you want to connect to (or where you have most of your traffic)
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.


AnonShaw

@shawcable.net
reply to 18286719
Any one else seeing 100+ ms on Shaw's speedtest but getting the right speeds? Just noticed it this evening. Wired connection.


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to 18286719
As in the Shaw speedtest? I never use Shaw's as I've found it to be completely inaccurate. Use speedtest.net for a best result.


spock

join:2012-07-08
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to 18286719
said by 18286719:

incorect im on vdsl2+ and the 17a profile, want proof? ill post pics kinda anoyin tho

lol your ignorant replys crack me up Connor. Could you please post the pictures of your vdsl2++ 17A 15meg profile please. I'm surprised they would use a 17A for 15meg. Not sure what VDSL2+ is either.


spock

join:2012-07-08
reply to 18286719
Quite a bit of jitter on those shaw tests. This would suck for gaming.


spock

join:2012-07-08
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit
reply to 18286719
said by 18286719:

if u subtract the 10-15 ping difference (to van) i gain from telus to shaw, telus would be faster everywhere tho, my only limitation is this vdsl2+

my theory is if you had ftth on telus you would be getting pings faster to everywhere with the telus, just cause of that 10-15ms you would save on your way to dslam or central office or w/e

ps rusty, most people dont have access to telus and shaw lines and the exact same time in the same house side by side on the same laptop with the same cat 6 in between the routers, i would be very surprised if people could post similar thing to me showing there telus and shaw lines directly compared

Your limitation with your telus connection is your profile, which can be changed. I use teksavvy DSL 25meg vdsl2 8b that goes through a telus 7330 FTTN cabinet. From there my traffic is routed to a 7750 SR-12 RE in my CO from there sent to the ERX that that interfaces with teksavvy. From that point the traffic is all teksavvys. The wire distance is over 200km from my house to erx by my estimates. My ping to the erx is 8-9ms.

Like rusty was saying each connection has many variables. Some better than others, some need to be tweaked, like mine is.



















I think that will do it. I could do all the tests you did but they would all blow yours out of the water. Have a good weekend. BTW if I was FTTH I would only be seeing an improvement in my ping by 5-7ms or so. Not a big deal.


18286719

join:2013-02-02
Whistler, BC
5-7 ms is a pretty good improvement if u ask me, if telus was 5-7 ms faster it would be reasonably comparable to the shaw, but it looks like tech savvy has some pretty good routing

rotohoto

join:2012-03-31
canada
kudos:1
Lower is always better obviously, but when you're already in the neighbourhood of 'good enough' improvements of 10ms here or there are meaningless.

If it's that important to you, go with whoever is better, just know that it will be constantly changing. For most of the results you posted, those are close enough that you could probably test a few times and find at least one example of both connections "winning".


18286719

join:2013-02-02
Whistler, BC
ok, i dont mean to go off topic, but i have to in order to explain why any ping below 10ms is not ideal to me.

as a dj i deal with latency on a daily basis even when im not on the internet, all sound cards have latency settings and require properly made computers ( when i say proper i mean it cant have any dpc spikes, which are measured in nanoseconds) with high grade components, for example in my laptop, my wireless adapter causes massive dpc spikes so i have it disabled most of the time unless i have to use it, being a dj, and working with control vinyl, you never wanna go above 10ms ping, 2-5 ms is very ideal, the reason why suck a low ping is requires is because its real time application where if i hear something after it happens then i wont be able to cue up the second record accurately, the point at where humans can not notice latency is suppose to be 10ms, but that is 10ms total, u need realize lots of tvs or monitors have response times between 5-10ms, adding to what you already have, wireless controllers add about 2-5 ms aswell, then u add this all to a game that has a baseline delay of about 150ms (go to youtube and watch ovenbaked muffins lag comp review) all you create is more problems, so when im playing online and i have a total combined ping of 10ms or less, saying improvements of 10ms make u sound kinda silly to me, that's pretty good, id pay for it, most people dont understand the difference tho because they havnt felt it, trust me play around with control vinyl and a soundcard, youll start to notice


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to 18286719
I have a quote for 50Mb fiber circuit from Telus which was made only two weeks ago. You can see the prices of build, install and monthly fees if you want. It's about the best way to ensure you have the best quality possible.


18286719

join:2013-02-02
Whistler, BC
that would be cool, pm me if u dont mind


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to 18286719
Rough run down on prices to get it pulled 500-1000FT:

$47,000.00 - Build cost
Waiving install fee (big woop, Telus)
$3600/month unmetered 50Mb

Bend over, sign the dotted line, Mr. DJ.


18286719

join:2013-02-02
Whistler, BC
lol, or i could probably pay rent in one of the houses in town that does have ftth for a few years with that, and it would continue to be less monthly, what would be the difference, 50 mbps up instead of 12? lol

rotohoto

join:2012-03-31
canada
kudos:1
Punctuation and paragraphs can be your friend.
Seriously, that was absolutely brutal to read.

Moving on...
Your first post was about round trip time to servers on the internet... now you're talking about real time audio applications. I really don't see how your DJ stuff is relevant to the discussion you originally started.

There are obviously a lot of audio/video applications where any delay is a major problem.
Anyone introducing the massive variable that is the internet in to those applications when it's not necessary would be a moron.
For example, I'd hope you're not sitting in Whistler, trying to mix sound sources from all over North America in real time.
For something like that you'd have all your sources local (I'd imagine, I don't really know).

All I got from briefly watching those videos, was that some of the Call of Duty games apparently have terrible netcode.
If the game itself actually adds 150ms of delay as you suggest, that sounds like a much bigger problem to me than worrying about your provider or access technology.
150ms already puts you in to unplayable territory... or at least it did 10+ years ago when I was in to counterstrike.

Whenever the internet comes in to play you are going to have variable, often unpredictable latency. It can change day to day/hour to hour, and sometimes there isn't much that even your provider can do about it.
If you want to run constant benchmarks, fret over your method of access, and complain about how your provider should "improve their routing" be my guest.
Personally I'd suggest finding a new game that wasn't programmed by shaved apes. One that actually performs well on the internet that we have in the real world, as most other games seem to be able to do.


spock

join:2012-07-08
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to rustydusty
said by rustydusty:

Rough run down on prices to get it pulled 500-1000FT:

$47,000.00 - Build cost
Waiving install fee (big woop, Telus)
$3600/month unmetered 50Mb

Bend over, sign the dotted line, Mr. DJ.

Did you get a quote for fiber from Shaw?

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw
$3600/month is cheaper than my last quote, but different areas (postals codes) can have very different prices, Telus and Shaw will be similar, I found the service, depending upon speed selected one will be cheaper over the other, but they are fairly close.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to 18286719
Like stated, they are all in the same range. The monthly service fee is only one part of the puzzle. If they have to pull fiber a long distance, your build cost is going to be astronomical. Install fee's are usually in the same area as well. We currently pay $1600/month for bonded T1's for 10x10. Moving to 50Mb fiber for under 4k is a fair better price. Still extremely expensive, but necessary for any medium to large company.

scubascythan

join:2005-05-14
reply to 18286719
said by 18286719:

then u add this all to a game that has a baseline delay of about 150ms (go to youtube and watch ovenbaked muffins lag comp review) all you create is more problems, so when im playing online and i have a total combined ping of 10ms or less, saying improvements of 10ms make u sound kinda silly to me, that's pretty good, id pay for it

This is funny. Talking about potentially paying hundreds to thousands of dollars per month just to get a slight advantage in a game, presumably a fps.

If you want the advantage so much, pay for hacks/mods. Get banned, buy another copy. Pretty sure that'll still be cheaper than paying for your own fiber circuit installation.

But the whole premise was ridiculous to start with.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Don't forget another 1-2ms savings because you won't need a NAT device
Expand your moderator at work