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plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to Link Logger

Re: [WIN8] Windows 8.1 will be a Free Upgrade

So the question is, can someone get Windows 8.1 without using the Windows Store? For example, is there a way to install Windows 8.1 without installing Windows 8 first?

If it is "like a service pack" there has always been ways to download the service pack, and slipstream it into the install media of Windows, and then just start with 8.1.

I also am someone who likes to start with the current version, with any additional service packs or versions.

So, is there any information yet that would allow you to download Windows 8.1, and integrate it into the Windows 8 install Media, or will there be a way to download and install clean Windows 8.1 onto a blank hard drive?

Thanks,

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:4
They should offer it via windows update if they are smart, only RT devices have to use the store.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
Reviews:
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reply to plencnerb
said by plencnerb:

So the question is, can someone get Windows 8.1 without using the Windows Store? For example, is there a way to install Windows 8.1 without installing Windows 8 first?

I'm fairly certain there will be options to upgrade from XP, Vista and 7, and even do a full install w/o any OS. However, I don't think they'll be free.

If it is "like a service pack" there has always been ways to download the service pack, and slipstream it into the install media of Windows, and then just start with 8.1.

I also am someone who likes to start with the current version, with any additional service packs or versions.

So, is there any information yet that would allow you to download Windows 8.1, and integrate it into the Windows 8 install Media, or will there be a way to download and install clean Windows 8.1 onto a blank hard drive?

This is supposed to be a full OS, so I don't think slipstreaming into 8 would work.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to BlitzenZeus
said by BlitzenZeus:

They should offer it via windows update if they are smart, only RT devices have to use the store.

Microsoft should sell Windows 8.1 to anyone who wants to buy it and in any way they want to make the purchase. Anything that facilitates sales is something you would think they would favor,....

Still thats not the way Apple does it which is why I quasi predicted that Microsoft might take a similar route.

Along those lines the next logical step (when copying Apple) would be for Microsoft to make all future versions of Windows only available via the Microsoft online store as a download. This would make Windows 8 a minimum requirement moving on from this point just like Apple OS X 10.6.8 (or something like that). Not a logical move at all given that Microsoft has no vested interest in forcing such an issue unless you're talking about Microsoft specific systems like the Surface Pro and Surface RT.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:6
reply to aurgathor
If it is a NEW OS, not a service pack...then it is worthless junk to me.

What I want to know is Microsoft's SUPPORT POLICY for Windows 8 with and without this (or any future "service packs" beyond this one). How long can I use Win 8 and get monthly security patches? THAT will be a HUGE determining factor in whether or not I install 8.1.

Microsoft says there will be yearly new versions of Win 8. Will Microsoft's policy on support for security fixes be radically different from previous OSes where there was one or two service packs over the life of the OS but now there will be a service pack at least yearly and only those who install each service pack as issued will continue to get security patches?

I don't want to have to install any service pack during the life of the computer (5 years) but I'll install one, reluctantly, if it is a major one but this crap of every year or even more often and NO support if you don't "keep up" with a constant stream of service packs? If that is the way Microsoft is going to play it then I will downgrade to Windows 7 and be done with it. Windows 7 has support for enough years that I can downgrade and not ever have to install and hassle with a service pack during the life span of this new desktop computer.

I have zero interest in the social connectivity that Microsoft is mouthing off about now constantly and there is zero reason to be "always on" merging work and your real life 24/7 unless you have a addiction to the "herd".

Plus, how is this a SERVICE PACK if you are required to get it from Microsoft store? That means I would have to re-enable UAC registry key. I don't use Metro apps and don't plan to ever use any during the life of this computer as I have no intention of ever permanently enabling UAC. A REAL SERVICE PACK would not be issued from Microsoft store at all. It sounds like this is something just for the Metro social media addicts.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
Microsoft is adopting an annual OS upgrade cycle but that doesn't mean each year's OS will be named Windows 8.x. Although Apple OS X has kept the same 10.x.x nomenclature well beyond their annual offerings and Microsoft may very well decide to copy that too.

For what its worth my thinking was that Microsoft would simply support everything under the Windows 8 umbrella (8.0, 8.1, 8.2 and so on) for the same period of time with respect to the release date of the first Windows 8 offering. So Windows 8.1 and 8.2 wouldn't extend the support life of Windows 8.0.

I'm further guessing the EULA for 8.1 will yield more info on Microsoft's plans unless they simply come right out and say it soon.

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:6
Your thinking makes sense to a certain degree but then what about situations like mine where I lost my OEM Win 8 Pro when I installed Media Center? I had no idea that would happen. So, I now have a weird version of Win 8 supported by Microsoft not by Dell (unless I want to uninstall Win 8 Media Center and then install Win 8 OEM again).

If you are right though, Microsoft will be issuing patches for each version of Win 8 for as long as Win 8 is supported? That seems like a lot more work and support than Microsoft would want to commit to.

I can't even install the current patches as I can get a download page for 32 bit Windows 8 patches only...no download pages load for Win 8 64 bit patches. Every month Microsoft has more and more messes when it comes to the security patches and I can only imagine the problems if Microsoft tries to support patches for umpteen different versions of Win 8.

Trying to imitate Apple is absurd and a total turn off. If I wanted Apple I would purchase Apple.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
Click for full size
Picture #1
Click for full size
Picture #2

Picture #3
said by Mele20:

I can't even install the current patches as I can get a download page for 32 bit Windows 8 patches only...no download pages load for Win 8 64 bit patches.

I don't want to go to OT here, but I'm always looking to help people out.

So, this makes me wonder why the pages won't load.

Here is the page that lists all of the Microsoft patches that were released today.

»technet.microsoft.com/en ··· ms13-may

Actually, if you use this, you can go here each month and get you to the current months list

»technet.microsoft.com/en ··· bulletin

So, if you look at the list of May patches, one of them is MS13-039. It applies to "Windows". To find out specifically what versions of Windows, as well as needed service pack levels, you use this link

»technet.microsoft.com/en ··· ms13-039

By the way, if you change the last part (ms-yy-###) you can actually look at, and get the information for any patch. the 13 of course relates to the last 2 digits of the year (in this case, 2013). 039 tells you that it is the 39th patch that Microsoft has issued so far in the year.

If you click that link, and scroll a bit down, you see the section "Affected and Non-Affected Software", like I have shown in Picture #1.

If you then click the blue link "Windows 8 for 64-bit Systems
(2829254)", it should take you to the download page for that patch, which is

»www.microsoft.com/en-us/ ··· id=38926

See picture #2 for what that looks like.

Clicking the download button, should result in something like what I show in Picture #3.

You can then download and save the file, or just run it. I'm guessing you would probably download them all first (and maybe even archive them for later use).

So, what part of that process fails for you? Or, do you do it different?

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:6

1 edit
Click for full size
I have a screenshot of the problem in the Security forum thread on these May patches.
»Re: Microsoft security bulletin for may 14 2013

I tried again just now and on Fx 17 ESR , I finally got a half second flash of the full page and then it reverted to the almost blank page that I show in my screenshot. Refreshing the page just got me the same mostly blank page and not even a tiny flash of the full page. I tried IE and SM again and still was getting the mostly blank page at Microsoft download center. Then, just now, I tried Opera again and the page loaded fully! I went back to Fx 17 ESR and now the page fully loads on it also. I was able to get a download box and download the patch to disk to later install.

I think not only are Windows Update servers overloaded currently but that even Microsoft download center servers have been overloaded and that is why I could get the download center page for 32bit Windows 8 and not for 64bit Windows 8 (how many folks have 32 bit Windows 8). I assume Microsoft uses Akamai for the manual patch downloads (like they do for Windows Defender updates that are done manually as I do them) so could be the Akamai server has been overloaded and maybe just the one I get directed to.

EDIT: I just tried to get the IE 10 Cumulative download. Talk about overloaded servers! Look at the difference in download speed between last night's Windows defender update and this patch...185KB/sec? I have 20/1 connection.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson