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LTE4LIFE

join:2013-02-28

1 recommendation

Boo Effin Hoo..

I'm at the point where I'm so effin tired of hearing about the excuses of why AT&T, Verizon, or whatever mega corporation can't get something done. If there's no profit to be made from it, they don't end up doing it.

It's time for some kind of paradigm shift to happen that changes the reason we do anything. How about doing it because it's the right thing to do and it's improving peoples standard of living. Does everything have to be done only because it has a profit to be made from it?

The goddamn money is worthless anyways.. It's printed out of thin air and has no intrinsic value. Just debt backed by debt. It's effin maddening..

I guess maybe by StarDate 2500 or whatever, perhaps the reason we do things won't be because there's a load of money to be made from it..



alchav

join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT
Reviews:
·ooma

said by LTE4LIFE:

I'm at the point where I'm so effin tired of hearing about the excuses of why AT&T, Verizon, or whatever mega corporation can't get something done. If there's no profit to be made from it, they don't end up doing it.

It's time for some kind of paradigm shift to happen that changes the reason we do anything. How about doing it because it's the right thing to do and it's improving peoples standard of living. Does everything have to be done only because it has a profit to be made from it?

The goddamn money is worthless anyways.. It's printed out of thin air and has no intrinsic value. Just debt backed by debt. It's effin maddening..

I guess maybe by StarDate 2500 or whatever, perhaps the reason we do things won't be because there's a load of money to be made from it..

I think this is the kind of attitude that most people have, and why AT&T went with Copper and Verizon stopped deployment of their FiOS. People want High Speed Fiber, but they don't want to pay for it. It's expensive to lay Fiber, and when a Company does it these same people say it cost too much. Then they want to wait around for the 2 Buck Special! Believe it or not, Companies need to make a profit to stay in Business.


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

said by alchav:

Believe it or not, Companies need to make a profit to stay in Business.

You do know that there is a difference between revenue and record setting profits, right?


moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to alchav

Everyone is quick to try and point out that laying fiber is expensive. Well, we've already covered damn near ALL of the country in copper once. Why can't we use the same system and regulations to cover it in fiber? I just don't understand why everyone cries out about the price.


LTE4LIFE

join:2013-02-28

I was told from a a reliable source that most of the railroads in this country have got fiber planted under all their tracks but it's currently dark.. as in it's not powered up for whatever reason.


LTE4LIFE

join:2013-02-28
reply to alchav

Verizon Wireless has 115 million subscribers. Even if they collected $40 a month from each of those subscribers excluding taxes, they would still bring in $4.6 billion a month. I don't think it costs $4.6 billion a month to run their network. Sure there's energy costs for each cell site, which is most likely eaten up by the 24/7 AC units they have running to keep their gear cool. They could incorporate solar energy to supplement some of the power requirements...


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to LTE4LIFE

said by LTE4LIFE:

Does everything have to be done only because it has a profit to be made from it?

If you're running a for profit business, yes, business activities should usually achieve a profit.
said by LTE4LIFE:

The goddamn money is worthless anyways.. It's printed out of thin air and has no intrinsic value. Just debt backed by debt. It's effin maddening..

Until people stop paying up for the dollar, it very much has value. How you capitalize on that value is up to you.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to Simba7

You do know there is a difference between revenue and profit, right? Why should a for profit business not strive to maximize profit?


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to LTE4LIFE

Running long haul and middle mile fiber is relatively easy and low cost. It's the last mile that requires the $$$. Dark fiber along railroad tracks doesn't do much good. There's a reason why it's still dark, if in fact it exists and is dark.


openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to LTE4LIFE

said by LTE4LIFE:

Verizon Wireless has 115 million subscribers. Even if they collected $40 a month from each of those subscribers excluding taxes, they would still bring in $4.6 billion a month. I don't think it costs $4.6 billion a month to run their network.

I'm sure you realize the math isn't that simple.
said by LTE4LIFE:

They could incorporate solar energy to supplement some of the power requirements...

Solar still costs more than it's worth. So a business could spend more on solar than the return it would realize and spend more on serving less than profitable markets? Sounds like a great strategy for any business funded by the Feds

cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:9
reply to LTE4LIFE

Small correction: If there's no immediate profit to be had, they don't do it. They won't wait *years* for an investment to payoff, even if fiber is about a future-proof as anything ever be.


cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:9
reply to moldypickle

Over many, MANY decades at a cumulative cost of many billions. In very different economic and political eras.

Most of the country is covered by power lines, water pipelines, gas pipelines, roads, etc., too. But NONE of that happened overnight.



Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
reply to openbox9

said by openbox9:

You do know there is a difference between revenue and profit, right? Why should a for profit business not strive to maximize profit?

Define "Maximize profit".. unless you mean "raking in our tax dollars to maximize profit".

How many billions (or was it trillions) did the huge telecoms get and didn't do a damn thing in return except please their stockholders and executives?

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

said by Simba7:

Define "Maximize profit".

Seriously?

max·i·mize [mak-suh-mahyz]
1. to increase to the greatest possible amount or degree: to look for ways of maximizing profit.

prof·it [prof-it]
2. the monetary surplus left to a producer or employer after deducting wages, rent, cost of raw materials, etc.: The company works on a small margin of profit.

said by Simba7:

How many billions (or was it trillions) did the huge telecoms get and didn't do a damn thing in return except please their stockholders and executives?

BS. How much ubiquitous telecommunications infrastructure does the US have because of that investment?


fg8578

join:2009-04-26
Salem, OR
reply to Simba7

said by Simba7:

How many billions (or was it trillions) did the huge telecoms get and didn't do a damn thing in return except please their stockholders and executives?

Broadband capex was more than $110B for 2000-01, and averaged more than $50B from 2002-11:

»www.ustelecom.org/broadband-indu···er-capex

You call that "not doing a damn thing"?

cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:9

»www.ustelecom.org/broadband-indu···hodology

"We analyzed capital expenditure data for wireline telecommunications, wireless telecommunications, and cable broadband providers in order to approximate industry aggregates. Other providers, such as satellite providers, telecommunications resellers, and electric utilities are excluded. Figures are rounded. Previous years may include minor revisions. The majority of telecommunications data were taken from company financial statements, taking into account business segment reporting, mergers, and spin-offs. Our analysis is subject to the reporting practices of individual companies. Capital expenditures may include investment in property, plant, and equipment, capitalized software, capitalized interest during construction, corporate, directory, and other capital expenditures, and intra-company eliminations. ..."

That gfx is not 100% wireline expenditures, nor is it even remotely reliable as it's based on what companies have claimed to have spent. (read: they LIE and omit things) I would guess the majority of that money was spent on WIRELESS spectrum licenses and buildout.



fg8578

join:2009-04-26
Salem, OR

@cramer: good catch; here is the chart for wireline only capex:

»www.ustelecom.org/broadband-indu···er-capex

Although the wireline-only numbers are smaller, my point remains the same: they have been investing in the network, not just sending money to the shareholders. Note that the methodology statement is exactly the same.

As to the allegation that the carriers are lying on their financial reports: that is a serious allegation as these reports are submitted to the SEC. If you believe the carriers have lied on any SEC reports, I'm sure the SEC would love to see your evidence.



alchav

join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT
Reviews:
·ooma
reply to moldypickle

said by moldypickle:

Everyone is quick to try and point out that laying fiber is expensive. Well, we've already covered damn near ALL of the country in copper once. Why can't we use the same system and regulations to cover it in fiber? I just don't understand why everyone cries out about the price.

Okay, to answer your question, when the Telco's were laying Copper things were different. Copper was cheaper and the Telco had a Monopoly, people were locked if they wanted a Phone. Old Judge Green took care of all this, no more Monopoly we have competition. If Telco's lay out money for Fiber, the only way to recoup is to sell their Services. If no one buys these Services there is no money to lay more Fiber.....Very Simple!

cramer
Premium
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
kudos:9
reply to fg8578

My point is, you can only know what they choose to tell you. Are they filing illegal SEC reports? Maybe, it certainly wouldn't be the first time someone did. What's true, the complete truth, and utter lies aren't a 1:1 with legal vs. illegal. AT&T, Verizon, etc. are private companies and as such, their books are not open to the public for inspection. What they spend, where, when, and to whom are known only to them (and one would presume, their auditors.) What they disclose to the SEC doesn't have to include any details of that.

Have you ever worked with any finance people? There are all sorts of things going on in companies that you'll never see on an SEC filing -- and generally, if you aren't involved in them, you'll never know they're happening.



fg8578

join:2009-04-26
Salem, OR

said by cramer:

My point is, you can only know what they choose to tell you.

Agreed -- but that's all we have. What would you suggest we use in the alternative?

JasonBourne

join:2000-05-22
Kansas City, MO
reply to cramer

Bingo! The way these companies see it if it won't turn a profit by tomorrow, or at the very least the end of next quarter; it's not worth doing.