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lighthouseJ
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join:2005-05-02
Golden, CO

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lighthouseJ

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furor over NYPD146;s planned Fort WTC

e NYPD plans to build a fortress around the World Trade Center site once it’s completed — and the measures have downtown residents up in arms. Sad days

»www.nypost.com/p/news/lo ··· Z527DQfJ
By BILL SANDERSON
Dodge
Premium Member
join:2002-11-27

Dodge

Premium Member

What no national guard, tanks, helicopters hovering overhead.

Reading that article I remembered a mid-90s batman cartoon which had a clip of Gotham city with GPD blimps shining spotlights all over the city - "for your safety". That's what we need, not some flimsy barricades!
/sarcasm

The towers were taken down by a plane, are they going to put an anti-aircraft battery on top of the tower as well while having airforce fly patrols around the area?

The only part of the article that makes any sense is this:

But other experts in urban planning say the police proposal will help the neighborhood and its businesses by encouraging people to walk or bicycle.

“It’s going to be better for pedestrians and it’s going to be worse for vehicles. That’s a good thing,” said Jeff Zupan, of the Regional Plan Association.

The administration should just admit that this whole "for your safety" BS is just so they can further their idiotic agenda to get rid of cars and force everyone to ride bikes.

Stacy
FotoDogue
Premium Member
join:2001-11-02
New York, NY

Stacy to lighthouseJ

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to lighthouseJ
When was the last time Greenwich Street has been open to traffic? Maybe sometime back in the mid '60s? This is a site that's already been hit with two major terrorist attacks. I'm surprised anyone would want to live or work around there anyway.

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
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join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94 to lighthouseJ

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to lighthouseJ
This must pale in comparision to what they go through in Israel? Folks, we're at war. We're sending tens of thousands of troops to fight and even die at this war. While I might not agree with how the war is fought, I agree with said measures here in the states. In Israel they have a saying: "Never again!" Why isn't that our saying here in the states? How quickly we forget how we felt on 9-11! A little inconvenience in exchange for a chance to catch more and more of the animals that want to murder us all is worth it.

Either we are at war, or what are we doing?

whizkid3
MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY

whizkid3

MVM

Exactly. What are we doing?
Dodge
Premium Member
join:2002-11-27

2 recommendations

Dodge to signmeuptoo94

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to signmeuptoo94
I'm sorry to say but NYPD wouldn't know security if it hit them in the face. Here are few examples of general stupidity:

- They check trucks in the battery tunnel, and by check I mean open a rear gate, glance at it and let it through. At the same time they don't check the concrete mixers going through. Now here is a question, what can a truck get into a tunnel that a Ford Expedition or any other decently sized SUV can't? And why not check the concrete mixers? Are they immune to terrorist plots by some miracle? Also consider the fact that you don't need to even damage the tunnel in the explosion. If someone sets of a firecracker in there ALL tunnels will be closed for weeks in order to conduct "a proper investigation". Bridges are going to go on "high-alert" as in we'll put another half asleep cop to block traffic for no reason. See what that does for Manhattan economy.

- The anti-terrorist teams that show up periodically around downtown area. Walking steroid commercials in body armor and automatic weapons who are more interested in chatting up women than doing anything useful.

- Why are the bomb sniffing dogs so interested in chinese food? Do they not feed these animals? Or is my general chicken laced with plutonium? I'd like to know if it is!

We are at war with ourselves! We are so scared shitless that something may or may not happen that we are willing to give up all conveniences for a fake sense of security. Yes I said fake, as none of these measures do anything to protect you, they just give you a false sense of security so you can go about your life thinking that everything is ok.

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94

Premium Member

Sorry, but I disagree with everything you say. I think you are very wrong.
Dodge
Premium Member
join:2002-11-27

Dodge

Premium Member

said by signmeuptoo94:

Sorry, but I disagree with everything you say. I think you are very wrong.

Agree or disagree there is no real security in this city. An SUV with no plates and no driver gets abandoned on the Brooklyn Bridge, police get a call at 5:15 and close the bridge by 6?!? 45 minutes to make a decision? Why wasn't BQE closed? The bridge passes right over that roadway. And why did the police need a call from someone to know about this? Since the bridge is such a high profile target, shouldn't there been cameras on it? And what is the purpose of that police car that is sitting on the other side of this bridge wasting gas 24/7?

And while we are on the subject, why are we only protecting downtown? Why no fortress around empire state, lincoln center, other mid-town locations? Why not build a wall around Manhattan while we are at it and strip search everyone going into the city? Better yet, require everyone who wants to enter the city to wear skin tight leotards, and go through body scanners, so searching wouldn't be necessary.

I'm not against security, I'm very against stupidity that passes for security.

La Luna
Fly With The Angels My Beloved Son Chris
Premium Member
join:2001-07-12
New Port Richey, FL

La Luna

Premium Member

Do you know how many terrorist plots have been thwarted since 9/11? LOTS. And do you know why they were thwarted? Many times, by use of techniques that you claim are "stupid" and an "inconvenience". Thanks, but I'd rather be just a little "inconvenienced".

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li ··· d_States

Fishead1
Premium Member
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY

Fishead1 to Dodge

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to Dodge
Whats wrong with forcing everybody to ride bikes?The city would be a lot better off.Way too many cars in the city and the city can't handle the traffic.
Bike power!!!!
Dodge
Premium Member
join:2002-11-27

Dodge to La Luna

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to La Luna
Most of that list is "allegedly" and "under suspicion" and some were not even against the US. After the first WTC bombing they made sure that no car can get close to it, gee that worked out swell for everyone. Let's build a fortress around it, that will sure stop someone.
Dodge

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Dodge to Fishead1

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to Fishead1
said by Fishead1:

Whats wrong with forcing everybody to ride bikes?The city would be a lot better off.Way too many cars in the city and the city can't handle the traffic.
Bike power!!!!

Like I said in the citybike thread, if the cops start enforcing the rules for bikes observing traffic laws, I want to see how many of you bike proponents will want to ride the bikes. When you'll be sitting in 95 degree heat on a traffic light, because technically you can't go on red just like cars, I want to see you enjoy your ride. I want to see what you'll start screaming when bike riders will start getting arrested for riding on sidewalks, getting held accountable for causing accidents, etc... If a car driver can get fined for blocking a bike lane, I want to see bike riders get fined for blocking car lanes. Cars get fines for non-working equipment, ticket bikes for missing safety gear. I can't even begin to count how many morons ride bikes at night with no reflectors or lights in the middle of the street.

AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
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join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ

AVD to signmeuptoo94

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to signmeuptoo94
said by signmeuptoo94:

This must pale in comparision to what they go through in Israel? Folks, we're at war. We're sending tens of thousands of troops to fight and even die at this war. While I might not agree with how the war is fought, I agree with said measures here in the states. In Israel they have a saying: "Never again!" Why isn't that our saying here in the states? How quickly we forget how we felt on 9-11! A little inconvenience in exchange for a chance to catch more and more of the animals that want to murder us all is worth it.

Either we are at war, or what are we doing?

they win when we change our basic lifestyle.

NYR 56
Premium Member
join:2000-12-05
Smithtown, NY

1 recommendation

NYR 56 to Dodge

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to Dodge
said by signmeuptoo94:

A little inconvenience in exchange for a chance to catch more and more of the animals that want to murder us all is worth it.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin

Don't just write that off, it's something to think about. We obviously need a balance, but some things are already going over that line.
said by Dodge:

I'm sorry to say but NYPD wouldn't know security if it hit them in the face. Here are few examples of general stupidity:

A lot of security is more or less a farce and just a show of force to calm the citizens. That said, there are so many detectors (radiation and otherwise) in the city and on all of the bridges that they would know about something major. Of course things can get snuck in, but once again, it's a balance of security and inconvenience.

All of that said, they've gone overboard and are wasting a lot of tax money IMO. I'm sure there's a LOT of great work done behind the scenes but there's also a ton of waste (as with any government project).

JRW2
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Gary, Ziggy, Max.
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join:2004-12-20
La La Land

JRW2 to Dodge

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to Dodge
said by Dodge:

I'm not against security, I'm very against stupidity that passes for security.

You just described the TSA.

I agree with you, all these "security" measures provide little or no real security.

Adopt security measures that work, don't put on a show...
JRW2

JRW2 to La Luna

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to La Luna
said by La Luna:

Do you know how many terrorist plots have been thwarted since 9/11? LOTS. And do you know why they were thwarted? Many times, by use of techniques that you claim are "stupid" and an "inconvenience". Thanks, but I'd rather be just a little "inconvenienced".

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li ··· d_States

Sorry, but none of those were prevented, all of them occurred after the fact, especially the Times Square bomber, his bomb didn't go off, yet he was able to "plant" it without anyone even hindering his efforts.

Fountainhead
Premium Member
join:2003-10-25
New York, NY

Fountainhead to lighthouseJ

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to lighthouseJ
The idea of barricading off the new tower is just window dressing.

Sorry.. you can throw out the "we're at war" crap all day.. There are tons of terrorist targets from the tunnels to the bridges to the middle of Times Square which are not barricaded off and yet they have figured out a way to keep them supposedly safe, right?

They never caught the guy who threw the explosives off his bike at military island in Times Square... The truck bomb in Times Square was crudely made and the moron locked himself out of his van..

Seriously..

I'm not sure I have much of a point other than building a $40 million dollar fortress around the new tower is BS. Even if they had that last time, it still wouldnt have stopped the towers from getting hit.

Kickrox
Premium Member
join:2002-08-18
Brooklyn, NY

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Kickrox to lighthouseJ

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to lighthouseJ
Dodge's replies get my stamp of approval, for what ever it's worth (nothing most likely ).

Most of these "safety measures" are a waste of tax dollars and man power.

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
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join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94 to lighthouseJ

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to lighthouseJ
Somebody said if we change our so called "lifestyle" "they" "win". First of all, the term "lifestyle" is a pretty general term. I have changed my lifestyle for things I want many times, and never did it detract from whatever little bit of personal integrity I have, in fact, the illusion that changing lifestyle would threaten integrity and self respect is an ego driven construct that can be downright silly.

Second, the "they". We are struggling against people who are either maniacs caught up in histrionic fascist like madness, or naive followers that are impressionable and lacking in mental awareness adequate enough for them to make real, informed, rational decisions, in other words, crazies and idiots. What we, who are threatened by these crazies and idiots do has to take into account that crazies and idiots are: A/ Unpredictable B/ Not guided by normal human fear C/ Incapable of human compassion and rational thought. Therefore, the measures we must take are different than, say being at another kind of war.

Third, exactly what criteria is involved in acclaiming they have "won". What is winning? Two toddlers fight over a toy, one gets the toy briefly. Did that toddler "win"?

Seriously, people...
Dodge
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join:2002-11-27

3 recommendations

Dodge

Premium Member

said by signmeuptoo94:

Somebody said if we change our so called "lifestyle" "they" "win". First of all, the term "lifestyle" is a pretty general term. I have changed my lifestyle for things I want many times, and never did it detract from whatever little bit of personal integrity I have, in fact, the illusion that changing lifestyle would threaten integrity and self respect is an ego driven construct that can be downright silly.

I recall a time when you can get to an airport 30 minutes before your flight and get on a plane. A time when getting anally probed by TSA was not on anyone's mind. The same time when you could get across a bridge a take a picture of a sunset. Lower Manhattan without truck barricades, check points, bomb sniffing dogs and occasional anti-terrorism storm troopers driving around. There was a time when trucks did not have to line up causing traffic to be checked. Random bag checks sounded completely insane to any American and you could bring water with you when participating in a sporting event. All of this is accepted as normal now.
said by signmeuptoo94:

Second, the "they". We are struggling against people who are either maniacs caught up in histrionic fascist like madness, or naive followers that are impressionable and lacking in mental awareness adequate enough for them to make real, informed, rational decisions, in other words, crazies and idiots. What we, who are threatened by these crazies and idiots do has to take into account that crazies and idiots are: A/ Unpredictable B/ Not guided by normal human fear C/ Incapable of human compassion and rational thought. Therefore, the measures we must take are different than, say being at another kind of war.

The "naive followers" are pawns in a grand scheme of things. Yes they are the ones carrying out the attacks, but they are not the problem. The problem are well educated individuals, with almost unlimited resources that see an opportunity to use imbeciles to accomplish whatever their needs are. Those are the individuals that will never see justice, or be punished for their actions. And as far as "crazies" and "incapable of rational thought", look at our own country - pro-guns, anti-guns, pro-life, pro-choice, global warming, oil dependency, corporate greed, drive for profits, etc. If you listen to any of these groups without having an opinion on the matter, they will all sound like crazies incapable of rational thought.
said by signmeuptoo94:

Third, exactly what criteria is involved in acclaiming they have "won". What is winning? Two toddlers fight over a toy, one gets the toy briefly. Did that toddler "win"?

If the toddler that got the toy also managed to instill fear of playing with others into the second toddler, which causes the second toddler to build a pillow fort to defend his remaining toys and refuse to accept the reality that not all other toddlers are your enemy, yeah I would say the first one won.