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fatness
subtle

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fatness

The Associated Press and the Feds

I've been reading all week about the Associated Press phone record seizures done by the Justice (ha ha) Department. The records seizure covered 20 home and office lines of various Associated Press employees, including reporters.

It was done without warrants of course, because ever since 9/11 the regular U.S.system of justice has been anathema to the federal government, like some sort of overly-restrictive corset that hinders their ability to fly through the sky like invisible superheroes protecting us.

There are numerous other articles that have described what was done in detail and I'm not going to try to post them all. The one I'm reading now concerns things said today by Gary Pruitt, head of the Associated Press, on Meet the Press.
»www.nytimes.com/2013/05/ ··· tml?_r=0

This pretty much summarizes his view:
quote:
“We don’t question their right to conduct these sorts of investigations,” said Gary Pruitt, president and chief executive of The A.P., said on Sunday on “Face the Nation” on CBS. But the manner in which it was pursued was an “unconstitutional act,” he said, characterizing it as overbroad and calculated to harass.
quote:
The government is sending a message to officials, he said, “that if you talk to the press, we’re going to go after you.” It has already had an impact, he said. “Officials who would normally talk to us, and people we would talk to in the normal course of news gathering, are already saying to us that they’re a little reluctant to talk to us; they fear that they will be monitored by the government.”
This is a huge step from going after Wikileaks, which has always been pictured as some sort of terrorist-abetting threat. This is the mainstream US press. And if people talk to them, they (both the talkers and the reporters) are subject to the Justice Department seizing records of those talks. By doing so on authority of the Justice Department.

I know this was on the front page of the site several times but I didn't see a topic on it in this forum. If there is one I apologize for reposting it.
»AP Reporters Information Hoovered Up By DOJ
»Latest Internet Surveillance Push Seeing Resistance
»Verizon Handed Over AP Data, No Questions Asked

La Luna
Fly With The Angels My Beloved Son Chris
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La Luna

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It will all get swept under the rug as "irrelevant".

I read that there were "secret subpoenas" that supposedly made this legal.

Snowy
Lock him up!!!
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My first thought when hearing about this was;
"Great!, The government is picking on a formidable opponent."
When the government steps out of bounds we can debate it, the press can effect it.

fatness
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said by La Luna:

I read that there were "secret subpoenas" that supposedly made this legal.

Was that from a news source or just blog speculation? If it's the former I'd like to read it. Thanks.

La Luna
Fly With The Angels My Beloved Son Chris
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join:2001-07-12
New Port Richey, FL

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La Luna

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A little more than half way down the page:

"....AP President and CEO Gary Pruitt criticized the move Sunday, saying the Justice Department’s secret subpoenas sent a strong and negative message to sources and made them less willing to talk to AP journalists......"

From Meet the Press interview.

Further down:

....Last week, Pruitt had said in a statement on the AP website that it was difficult to defend its actions since it was not told by the government what it did or what prompted the subpoenas....

»www.foxnews.com/politics ··· candals/

StuartMW
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Well as always it's to

• Protect the children.

• Protect us from terrorists.

in this case the latter.

As long as the majority of sheeple say

• Just keep me safe.

• I have nothing to hide so do as you please.

• Huh?

this kind of thing will continue to happen regardless of which political party is in power.

The bottom line is that most sheeple are more worried about which model of Smartphone they're going to buy next.

You get the gummint you deserve.

goalieskates
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join:2004-09-12
land of big

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goalieskates

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said by StuartMW:

The bottom line is that most sheeple are more worried about which model of Smartphone they're going to buy next.

Or, this may be the wakeup call those "sheeple" (and I loathe that term) need.

It's been real easy for a lot of them to just write off every little encroachment as being conspiracy theory by the tinfoil hat crowd for the reasons you cite. Now they get to watch an administration turn on one of its own biggest supporters in spectacular fashion.

Not that this is limited to one party; the real party is "government." When government gets this big, it takes on a life of its own. See also: IRS, Benghazi, etc.

StuartMW
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StuartMW

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said by goalieskates:

Or, this may be the wakeup call those "sheeple"...

Perhaps but I'm not very hopeful on that front. One event or even a few don't change the general course of a culture--not often anyway.

I'd say more people relate to the IRS incident since everyone hates the IRS. This story and Benghazi "don't affect me so why should I care?".
TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
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said by fatness:

said by La Luna:

I read that there were "secret subpoenas" that supposedly made this legal.

Was that from a news source or just blog speculation? If it's the former I'd like to read it. Thanks.

According to the letter written by the AP, cited in the news report on this site, the records were subpoenaed. The problems according to the letter, is the extent of the records obtained violates the law, the lack of prior notice to the AP and the lack of prior and subsequent notice to the journalists.

»www.documentcloud.org/do ··· 896.html
said by Pruitt letter :

"without taking any steps to narrow the scope of its subpoenas"

"we urgently requst that you immediately return to the AP the department toll records that the department subpoenaed and destroy all copies."


fatness
subtle

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fatness

Thank you for pointing that out.

There was a somewhat similar collection of a reporter's records in 2009 involving Fox News. The differences are that in that case the reporter was suspected of violating the law (not the case with AP), and that a warrant was sought (also not the case with AP). Here's the affadavit in support of a warrant in a 2009 case: »apps.washingtonpost.com/ ··· ant/162/

This 3-page article is worth a read just for the amount of detail included.
TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
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TheWiseGuy

MVM

Interesting read. Thank You.
OZO
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said by goalieskates:

said by StuartMW:

The bottom line is that most sheeple are more worried about which model of Smartphone they're going to buy next.

Or, this may be the wakeup call those "sheeple" (and I loathe that term) need.

It's been real easy for a lot of them to just write off every little encroachment as being conspiracy theory by the tinfoil hat crowd for the reasons you cite. Now they get to watch an administration turn on one of its own biggest supporters in spectacular fashion.

The main problem here is - sheeple don't care about it at all. There is no such things as wakeup call for people with that attitude. They taught, that what government is doing is always right. The rest is just a conspiracy against it...

Not that this is limited to one party; the real party is "government." When government gets this big, it takes on a life of its own. See also: IRS, Benghazi, etc.

Precisely. The real party is "government." Those two known political parties are mostly the same and just compete for it.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

StuartMW

Premium Member

said by OZO:

There is no such things as wakeup call for people with that attitude.

Agreed.

I say that in the US 30% of the adult population have a pretty good idea what's going on, 30% know a little, and 40% have no clue whatsoever.
Frodo
join:2006-05-05

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The contention is, the Obama administration is trying to criminalize investigative reporting.
»www.guardian.co.uk/comme ··· minality
quote:
"This newfound theory of the Obama DOJ - that a journalist can be guilty of crimes for "soliciting" the disclosure of classified information - is a means for circumventing those safeguards and criminalizing the act of investigative journalism itself."

Just remember the government classified the proposed ACTA treaty as a "national security" secret, when it was obviously not a national security matter.

Presumably, if this precedent against investigative reporting was to take hold, then a reporter could have been prosecuted for soliciting information on ACTA.

fatness
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fatness

I'd advise taking a step back from that view. Years ago people said the Bush administration had no respect for rights or privacy. Now some, like the Guardian, are saying the Obama administration has no respect for the same. Both miss the picture.

The federal government has no respect for rights or privacy.

Politics will blind you to the overall picture.

StuartMW
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StuartMW

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said by fatness:

Politics will blind you to the overall picture.

I'd revise that slightly. I'd say partisan (party) politics will blind you.

This stuff is in the political realm.

Blackbird
Built for Speed
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The US Constitution and its Bill of Rights exist to specifically enumerate and describe the powers granted to government, otherwise such powers are reserved for the states or the people (Amendments IX and X). The clear implication of this is that otherwise, government will tend toward accumulation and expansion of its powers - endlessly... regardless of party... regardless of the nature of professed "political" leanings... regardless of the protestations of the citizenry. Constitutionality matters. It, and its application by the courts, is the leash that keeps the government from making the citizens into subjects, instead of being subject to their will. If the activity of the Federal government and any particular Federal governmental agency is not clearly rooted in the enumerated powers granted to government by the Constitution, then such activity is forbidden by the Constitution.

I see no place where the power to tap reporters' phones (or anyone else's, for that matter) without warrants or by using "secret" Star-Chamber warrants is granted by the Constitution to the Federal government, either directly or by implication. That is true whether the initiative comes from Democratic or Republican leadership, or whether it comes from the tenets and beliefs of conservatives, liberals, or libertarians. We've somehow got to get beyond such "political" viewpoints on matters of this sort, or we'll all go down together under a governmental smothering of all our freedoms.

sbrook
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sbrook

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It is clear that this problem is worldwide and not limited to the USA, which in turn confirms that this is not a matter of "political party", but a matter of the control of the masses.

We scare the masses that "they" are out to get us and use that as justification for more invasions allowing control of the masses. That "they" can be terrorists, or countries (currently Korea), or GLBs or anti-American activities ... pick your threat of the day.

The scary thing is that the process reduces to Orwell's picture in Animal Farm or in 1984 ... All animals are created equal ... some more than others. No person can be trusted.

And that all comes down to protecting themselves and their ability to exercise their greed. And who holds the prize for greed? The corporations.

We, the people, are just pawns in the hands of the power hungry and must be controlled.

jmorlan
Hmm... That's funny.
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Agree the feds over-reacted as they often do.

But what I still don't understand is why somebody in our government outed our CIA agent who had infiltrated the Al-Qaeda bomb-maker, Ibrahim Hassan al-Asir in Yemen. Why leak that to the AP putting our guy at risk? And why did the AP run with such a story?

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS

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Dont forget govt is just a tool for business. Obama is really an employee of corporations not the people. As Jon Stewart pointed out, theyre really good at conducting campaigns but cannot govern out of a paper bag. Its about obtaining power not using power for the good of the electorate. Our role is to accept the subserviance for a stable environment to raise our families and have jobs etc. So you guys are rocking the boat LOL. But really, do you expect a few people can make any difference on the Titanic ;-P

StuartMW
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said by Anav:

But really, do you expect a few people can make any difference on the Titanic

Well if you're on the Titanic going full steam ahead (which it was) and yell "Iceberg" it isn't going to help much. That said the smart people grab a lifejacket and make their way to nearest lifeboat But even that may not save you.

Anav
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Anav

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Oh dont worry, those in power have already flown off the titanic using corporate helicopters.
(analogy, bin laden family flying out of the US right after 9-11 skies opened a smidgen).

StuartMW
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StuartMW

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Ironic that NS is the closest land to the Titanic

Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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Anav

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We will also have a monument and a museum in memory of the pre-apocalyptic USA.
Anav

Anav

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What bothers me is Obama appears to disagree with what the women said. I was naively hoping for a response such as 'I hope the republicans are listening to her."

»www.cnn.com/video/?/vide ··· kler.cnn

Phoenix22
Death From Above
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more like a baghdad flying rug!
jd
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my smart phone was made by kimber
Frodo
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The New Yorker has become Wikileaks like with the introduction of "Strongbox", a method of passing tips to the New Yorker anonymously.

»www.newyorker.com/online ··· ool.html
quote:
This morning, The New Yorker launched Strongbox, an online place where people can send documents and messages to the magazine, and we, in turn, can offer them a reasonable amount of anonymity.

A nine step graphic within the article shows how the system works.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
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Woodstock, ON

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said by fatness:

I'd advise taking a step back from that view. Years ago people said the Bush administration had no respect for rights or privacy. Now some, like the Guardian, are saying the Obama administration has no respect for the same. Both miss the picture. ...

Well here's the difference between the two. Bush could have gone after leakers, investigative reporters and all the rest but didn't. He could have also gone after political enemies by sending the DOJ, ATF, FBI and IRS after them, but didn't. Obama has in some capacity either directly or indirectly(through 3rd hand, or his own actions and statements) gone after well anyone who disagrees with him, and used letter agencies for it.

There's no politics in that, but prima facie on it's own it's correct. More so with the DOJ investigating itself, and with members of the IRS now trying to clam up and run for the hills. I'm not saying that Bush was sunshine and daisies with regards to this, but the pattern of abuse is there in the Obama administration for all to see. And it's not just one instance, it's multiple instances across dozens of people, groups, and whistle blowers.

Phoenix22
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u might wanna consider 50+