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xsbell
join:2008-12-22
Canada

xsbell to liquid_ic

Member

to liquid_ic

Re: Pair bonding coming soon?

said by liquid_ic:

Any word on this coming. 25 MB/s is really not cutting it compared to cables 50 - 75 for the same price.

It will be launched in Quebec on June 3rd and in Ottawa on June 10th.

BliZZardX
Premium Member
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON

BliZZardX

Premium Member

What about Toronto?

xsbell
join:2008-12-22
Canada

xsbell

Member

said by BliZZardX:

What about Toronto?

Nothing about Toronto yet, but it shouldn't be too far away either, probably at the end of the month... along with the IRDs with wifi (for FibeTV).

FiberToTheX
Premium Member
join:2013-03-14

FiberToTheX to xsbell

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to xsbell
said by xsbell:

said by liquid_ic:

Any word on this coming. 25 MB/s is really not cutting it compared to cables 50 - 75 for the same price.

It will be launched in Quebec on June 3rd and in Ottawa on June 10th.

What is the source for those dates because typically any kind of remote installation ive seen or noticed happens during August or September.

If those dates are true particularly for the end of month for Toronto then i sbould look forward to having a 7330 installed soon.

xsbell
join:2008-12-22
Canada

xsbell

Member

said by FiberToTheX:

What is the source for those dates

It's been published internally [at Bell] for a while now.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to xsbell

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to xsbell
said by xsbell:

Nothing about Toronto yet, but it shouldn't be too far away either, probably at the end of the month... along with the IRDs with wifi (for FibeTV).

Just Ottawa? No word on other areas (beside Toronto) with 7330s deployed?

FiberToTheX
Premium Member
join:2013-03-14

FiberToTheX to xsbell

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to xsbell
said by xsbell:

said by FiberToTheX:

What is the source for those dates

It's been published internally [at Bell] for a while now.

I doubt it. I would like to see confirmation by others or perhaps a screenshot of that internal memo. JCohen can you perhaps confirm or deny?

I also find it interesting the GTA or Toronto was not mentioned or other parts of Ontario on the FibeTV road map.
yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON

yyzlhr to xsbell

Member

to xsbell
said by xsbell:

said by FiberToTheX:

What is the source for those dates

It's been published internally [at Bell] for a while now.

Will they be delivering anything faster than 50/10 with bonding?

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to FiberToTheX

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to FiberToTheX
Bell has recently updated their website and now makes mention of a 75Mbit/s tier on certain splash pages without actually showing it for sale on the website. It's certainly plausible that pair bonding is coming sooner rather than later as 75 is going to be the first bonded tier.

As for why Ottawa and not the GTA, I suspect it would have to do with the number of 7330s versus Stingers deployed. Stingers don't bond.

FiberToTheX
Premium Member
join:2013-03-14

FiberToTheX

Premium Member

said by Gone:

As for why Ottawa and not the GTA, I suspect it would have to do with the number of 7330s versus Stingers deployed. Stingers don't bond.

Barrie and other parts of Ontario have a large amount of 7330's deployed as well.

There are also a large amount of 7330's deployed in the Greater Toronto Area although the amount of Stinger's outnumbers the 7330's.

On a different note I thought I saw a 7330 deployed not to far from me. I'm going to take a closer look tomorrow when I pick up my Cable Modem.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

Aside from the one Stinger I managed to find in a non-residential part of Niagara Falls, the Niagara Region is all 7330s too. I believe Waterloo Region is as well.
freejazz_RdJ
join:2009-03-10

freejazz_RdJ to Gone

Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

As for why Ottawa and not the GTA, I suspect it would have to do with the number of 7330s versus Stingers deployed. Stingers don't bond.

They do bond with the later firmware updates. You just need a magic modem that has bonding support and Ikanos support.

I think there are 2 targets for bonding: extending the reach of your basic level of service (25/10 for internet and modest IPTV with 15Mbps+ internet) and higher speed tiers for customers who are closer.

I wonder how much of a margin hit you'd get if you sold 25/10 bonded at the same retail price. As for wholesale, how will that be priced? Does the bonding customer if it has to be wholesaled pay for 1 port or 2 ports? Or a multiple accounting for just the extra port, and not 2X the upstream resources.

FiberToTheX
Premium Member
join:2013-03-14

FiberToTheX

Premium Member

said by freejazz_RdJ:

said by Gone:

As for why Ottawa and not the GTA, I suspect it would have to do with the number of 7330s versus Stingers deployed. Stingers don't bond.

They do bond with the later firmware updates. You just need a magic modem that has bonding support and Ikanos support.

I think there are 2 targets for bonding: extending the reach of your basic level of service (25/10 for internet and modest IPTV with 15Mbps+ internet) and higher speed tiers for customers who are closer.

I wonder how much of a margin hit you'd get if you sold 25/10 bonded at the same retail price. As for wholesale, how will that be priced? Does the bonding customer if it has to be wholesaled pay for 1 port or 2 ports? Or a multiple accounting for just the extra port, and not 2X the upstream resources.

Bonding would really only be used when the Loop length exceeds 3000-4000 Feet is when there is a dramatic drop in Upstream/Downstream on 17a:

»/r0/do ··· ance.png
said by Gone:

Aside from the one Stinger I managed to find in a non-residential part of Niagara Falls, the Niagara Region is all 7330s too. I believe Waterloo Region is as well.

Exactly what I'm thinking. As far as I know some parts of London and Hamilton also have 7330's deployed as well. St. Katharine's has a fair share of 7330's too.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_ to FiberToTheX

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to FiberToTheX
said by FiberToTheX:

said by xsbell:

said by FiberToTheX:

What is the source for those dates

It's been published internally [at Bell] for a while now.

I doubt it. I would like to see confirmation by others or perhaps a screenshot of that internal memo. JCohen can you perhaps confirm or deny?

Yep, I can confirm that these dates have been posted internally. As for other areas there is currently no information available.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to FiberToTheX

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to FiberToTheX
said by FiberToTheX:

Exactly what I'm thinking. As far as I know some parts of London and Hamilton also have 7330's deployed as well. St. Katharine's has a fair share of 7330's too.

London doesn't have any extensive FTTN. Hamilton has a lot of Stingers depending on the area of the city.

As for that abomination of a name you typed that is by far the worst version I have ever seen, I believe that was already covered by Niagara Region.

Bonding would be needed to deliver 75/10 (or 75/20, not sure what they're doing on TV) and upload simultaneously on loops. It will also extend the reach for 50/10 and Fibe TV simultaneously as there is a good chunk of 7330-served areas that can't quite do both due to distance from the SLAM.

FiberToTheX
Premium Member
join:2013-03-14

FiberToTheX

Premium Member

said by Gone:

said by FiberToTheX:

Exactly what I'm thinking. As far as I know some parts of London and Hamilton also have 7330's deployed as well. St. Katharine's has a fair share of 7330's too.

London doesn't have any extensive FTTN. Hamilton has a lot of Stingers depending on the area of the city.

As for that abomination of a name you typed that is by far the worst version I have ever seen, I believe that was already covered by Niagara Region.

Bonding would be needed to deliver 75/10 (or 75/20, not sure what they're doing on TV) and upload simultaneously on loops. It will also extend the reach for 50/10 and Fibe TV simultaneously as there is a good chunk of 7330-served areas that can't quite do both due to distance from the SLAM.

London does have FTTN within certain parts of the city. If you take a look at Start they show a map of FTTN coverage for VDSL. Apparently there was also a Bell exec that has Fibe Internet/TV in London in his residence as reported on DSLReports.

Hamilton is severely lacking on the Bell Remote Map. I do know that there a few 7330's deployed but I wasn't really aware of the Stinger coverage due to lack of community feedback on the map.

Bonding will be necessary for 75/10(20?) as the loop length to Remote would have to be extremely close to reach that attainable. The amount of subscribers who would qualify would be a tiny portion as the 50/10 subscribers are already a small percentage compared to those with 25/10 available.

50/10 would be needed for loop lengths past 3000-4000feet when 17a Downstream/Upstream severely drops. It could also be used for 25/10 subscribers.

As for the spelling St. Catharines you can disregard the earlier spelling. Autocorrect was at fault.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

Start's VDSL is their own equipment co-located in a CO and is only available in the core. Bell has FTTH with Fibe TV in new neighborhoods and a few apartment/condo towers in London, but I am pretty sure there is no FTTN available - yet - west of Waterloo Region.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7 to Gone

Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

said by FiberToTheX:

Exactly what I'm thinking. As far as I know some parts of London and Hamilton also have 7330's deployed as well. St. Katharine's has a fair share of 7330's too.

London doesn't have any extensive FTTN. Hamilton has a lot of Stingers depending on the area of the city.

As for that abomination of a name you typed that is by far the worst version I have ever seen, I believe that was already covered by Niagara Region.

Bonding would be needed to deliver 75/10 (or 75/20, not sure what they're doing on TV) and upload simultaneously on loops. It will also extend the reach for 50/10 and Fibe TV simultaneously as there is a good chunk of 7330-served areas that can't quite do both due to distance from the SLAM.

Well 75/10 doesn't require bonding for some like me, i'm about 300m away. Unless you were strictly talking about stingers.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by kovy7:

Well 75/10 doesn't require bonding for some like me, i'm about 300m away. Unless you were strictly talking about stingers.

Just because you don't need to be bonded doesn't mean that there are many many others who do, especially since Bell is going to expect a 75Mbit/s tier to actually be good for 100 for Fibe TV. Stingers don't bond, so I don't know why you would bring that up.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7

Member

said by Gone:

said by kovy7:

Well 75/10 doesn't require bonding for some like me, i'm about 300m away. Unless you were strictly talking about stingers.

Just because you don't need to be bonded doesn't mean that there are many many others who do, especially since Bell is going to expect a 75Mbit/s tier to actually be good for 100 for Fibe TV. Stingers don't bond, so I don't know why you would bring that up.

I'm not saying people won't need bonding for higher then 50/10, I'm just saying it's possible for some without it. From my stats, seems I could do 100mbit/s.

FiberToTheX
Premium Member
join:2013-03-14

FiberToTheX

Premium Member

said by kovy7:

said by Gone:

said by kovy7:

Well 75/10 doesn't require bonding for some like me, i'm about 300m away. Unless you were strictly talking about stingers.

Just because you don't need to be bonded doesn't mean that there are many many others who do, especially since Bell is going to expect a 75Mbit/s tier to actually be good for 100 for Fibe TV. Stingers don't bond, so I don't know why you would bring that up.

I'm not saying people won't need bonding for higher then 50/10, I'm just saying it's possible for some without it. From my stats, seems I could do 100mbit/s.

How many DSL subscribers are within 300m of a 7330 Remote and have the US/DS attainables for 75/10 or 75/20 ? That would be a tiny percentage. Those with access to 25/10 or 25/7 outnumber those with 50/10.

Around 40% have access to VDSL out of the 59% and 27% are still on Legacy ADSL/ADSL2+. The number with access to 50/10 would be likely around 15-20% at best and those with 75/10 or 75/20 would be half that (optimistically).
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7

Member

said by FiberToTheX:

How many DSL subscribers are within 300m of a 7330 Remote and have the US/DS attainables for 75/10 or 75/20 ? That would be a tiny percentage. Those with access to 25/10 or 25/7 outnumber those with 50/10.

Around 40% have access to VDSL out of the 59% and 27% are still on Legacy ADSL/ADSL2+. The number with access to 50/10 would be likely around 15-20% at best and those with 75/10 or 75/20 would be half that (optimistically).

I don't know the numbers, I'm just saying it's possible. And if bonding was available maybe I could get 150+ mbps.


FiberToTheX
Premium Member
join:2013-03-14

FiberToTheX

Premium Member

said by kovy7:

said by FiberToTheX:

How many DSL subscribers are within 300m of a 7330 Remote and have the US/DS attainables for 75/10 or 75/20 ? That would be a tiny percentage. Those with access to 25/10 or 25/7 outnumber those with 50/10.

Around 40% have access to VDSL out of the 59% and 27% are still on Legacy ADSL/ADSL2+. The number with access to 50/10 would be likely around 15-20% at best and those with 75/10 or 75/20 would be half that (optimistically).

I don't know the numbers, I'm just saying it's possible. And if bonding was available maybe I could get 150+ mbps.



17a only goes up to 100Mbps. They would have to implement 30a on the 7330 remotes and the loop length and US/DS past 2000 feet suffers immensely:

»/r0/do ··· ance.png

That's not even mentioning that the 12A profile on the Stinger remotes go up to 68Mbps. There is an immense amount of Stingers deployed since 2005/2006 and they would also have to be replaced.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7

Member

said by FiberToTheX:

said by kovy7:

said by FiberToTheX:

How many DSL subscribers are within 300m of a 7330 Remote and have the US/DS attainables for 75/10 or 75/20 ? That would be a tiny percentage. Those with access to 25/10 or 25/7 outnumber those with 50/10.

Around 40% have access to VDSL out of the 59% and 27% are still on Legacy ADSL/ADSL2+. The number with access to 50/10 would be likely around 15-20% at best and those with 75/10 or 75/20 would be half that (optimistically).

I don't know the numbers, I'm just saying it's possible. And if bonding was available maybe I could get 150+ mbps.

[att=1]

17a only goes up to 100Mbps. They would have to implement 30a on the 7330 remotes and the loop length and US/DS past 2000 feet suffers immensely:

»/r0/do ··· ance.png

That's not even mentioning that the 12A profile on the Stinger remotes go up to 68Mbps. There is an immense amount of Stingers deployed since 2005/2006 and they would also have to be replaced.

Well from your graph, the 17a goes up to 120, which is about my attainable speed. But only get around 30 for up.

Indeed, my Jwi has a stinger and a 7330, they didn't replace the stinger... just added a 7330.

FiberToTheX
Premium Member
join:2013-03-14

FiberToTheX

Premium Member

said by kovy7:

Well from your graph, the 17a goes up to 120, which is about my attainable speed. But only get around 30 for up.

Indeed, my Jwi has a stinger and a 7330, they didn't replace the stinger... just added a 7330.

Maximum Theoretical for 17A goes higher than that as JCohen had shown using Webcare near a 7330 Remote. However the maximum downstream throughput for 17A is 100Mbps vs 68Mbps for 12A and 200Mbps for 30A.

In your case you are fortunate to have a 7330 and a Stinger remote in your area. My area is still stuck on ADSL2+ to the CO and Cable Internet is the only choice for higher speeds unless you happen to be very close to the CO. I've checked and rechecked for my location and its up to 5/0.8. It's in the GTA and other area have VDSL2+ but not this area.

I'm guessing though you are connected to the 7330 and not to the Stinger. I haven't seen your line stats so I can't tell.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

1 edit

kovy7

Member

said by FiberToTheX:

said by kovy7:

Well from your graph, the 17a goes up to 120, which is about my attainable speed. But only get around 30 for up.

Indeed, my Jwi has a stinger and a 7330, they didn't replace the stinger... just added a 7330.

Maximum Theoretical for 17A goes higher than that as JCohen had shown using Webcare near a 7330 Remote. However the maximum downstream throughput for 17A is 100Mbps vs 68Mbps for 12A and 200Mbps for 30A.

In your case you are fortunate to have a 7330 and a Stinger remote in your area. My area is still stuck on ADSL2+ to the CO and Cable Internet is the only choice for higher speeds unless you happen to be very close to the CO. It's in the GTA and other area have VDSL2+ but not this area.

I'm guessing though you are connected to the 7330 and not to the Stinger. I haven't seen your line stats so I can't tell.

Well I know i'm on a 7330, it's the 75mbps profile... would be impossible with stinger.

Mont
join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC

Mont to kovy7

Member

to kovy7
Same thing here all jwi's with a stinger got a 7330 installed.

For the 30a , Bell will go with vectoring first probably.

»www.alcatel-lucent.com/s ··· ectoring
liquid_ic
join:2010-07-19
L

liquid_ic

Member

Any thing coming soon, thinking of going back to Rogers. 25mbs is really slow
urbang33k
join:2010-02-13
Canada

urbang33k to FiberToTheX

Member

to FiberToTheX
said by FiberToTheX:

Hamilton is severely lacking on the Bell Remote Map. I do know that there a few 7330's deployed but I wasn't really aware of the Stinger coverage due to lack of community feedback on the map.

Just to clarify here....

Hamilton Hunter (downtown core, and out into westdale) is almost exclusively 7330's

Hamilton Main (the area between the core and stoney creek) is also mostly 7330's

Hamilton Wentworth (Hamilton Mountain) was initially, almost exclusively stingers. Now is getting 7330's and Vsems added to opi's / jwi's with stingers already on them.

Stoney Creek seems to be a mix iirc but I dont get out that way very often.

Burlington initially was about 70% stinger / 30% 7330s. Im finding now a lot of the stingers are getting companion 7330's/vsems. So now I'd say it's about 70% mixed technology at the opi in burlington, and a smaller and smaller % of stinger only cabinets as time progresses.

If I had to ball park an estimate I'd say that if you look at the GHA as a whole (stoney creek wrapping around the bay to Burlington) your probably looking at 80% or better FTTN coverage.