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telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad to FifthE1ement

MVM

to FifthE1ement

Re: 8 Downstream 8 Upstream Modems?

said by FifthE1ement:

said by anon623 :

I would guess that a mid split might be a plausible option for Comcast. In some east markets they are preparing to go encrypted on all of the channels even for the limited basic customers. This would mean a box or cablecard would be required to pick up any channel. The hidden advantage in that is Comcast can move around channel frequencies without disrupting service. So it's very possible once they make the switch they could free up all of the lower frequency area to be used for return.

They already did that here in South Florida.

Wow, if you're talking about a mid-split, I didn't think there were many systems with that yet.

Do you know how many upstream channels are on your system right now?
Does your system top off at 1GHz?

FifthE1ement
Tech Nut
join:2005-03-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

FifthE1ement

Member

said by telcodad:

said by FifthE1ement:

said by anon623 :

I would guess that a mid split might be a plausible option for Comcast. In some east markets they are preparing to go encrypted on all of the channels even for the limited basic customers. This would mean a box or cablecard would be required to pick up any channel. The hidden advantage in that is Comcast can move around channel frequencies without disrupting service. So it's very possible once they make the switch they could free up all of the lower frequency area to be used for return.

They already did that here in South Florida.

Wow, if you're talking about a mid-split, I didn't think there were many systems with that yet.

Do you know how many upstream channels are on your system right now?
Does your system top off at 1GHz?

In South Florida even the limited basic is encrypted and the only way to see channels is with a box or DTA. However we still don't have the channels in the 1000's What is above 1Ghz? My system is 1Ghz but are there higher?

Comcast is using 8x2 in my area for internet and my modem is a new Motorola SurfBoard SB6141.

Modem Stats:

Channel ID 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Frequency 375000000 Hz 333000000 Hz 339000000 Hz 345000000 Hz 351000000 Hz 357000000 Hz 363000000 Hz 369000000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio 38 dB 38 dB 38 dB 38 dB 38 dB 38 dB 38 dB 38 dB
Downstream Modulation QAM256 QAM256 QAM256 QAM256 QAM256 QAM256 QAM256 QAM256
Power Level
The Downstream Power Level reading is a snapshot taken at the time this page was requested. Please Reload/Refresh this Page for a new reading
3 dBmV 3 dBmV 3 dBmV 3 dBmV 3 dBmV 3 dBmV 3 dBmV 3 dBmV

Upstream Bonding Channel Value
Channel ID 6 5
Frequency 34800000 Hz 27900000 Hz
Ranging Service ID 2924 2924
Symbol Rate 5.120 Msym/sec 5.120 Msym/sec
Power Level 47 dBmV 47 dBmV
Upstream Modulation [3] QPSK
[3] 64QAM
[3] QPSK
[3] 64QAM

Ranging Status Success Success

Signal Stats (Codewords) Bonding Channel Value
Channel ID 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Total Unerrored Codewords 12840653429 4250726506 4250734724 4250743941 4250711919 4250711300 4250713470 4250713205
Total Correctable Codewords 448 533 397 276 234 291 318 584
Total Uncorrectable Codewords 2665 3501 3609 2685 2951 3013 2674 3744

On speed tests I get 55/11.

5th

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

telcodad

MVM

said by FifthE1ement:

said by telcodad:

said by FifthE1ement:

said by anon623 :

I would guess that a mid split might be a plausible option for Comcast. In some east markets they are preparing to go encrypted on all of the channels even for the limited basic customers. This would mean a box or cablecard would be required to pick up any channel. The hidden advantage in that is Comcast can move around channel frequencies without disrupting service. So it's very possible once they make the switch they could free up all of the lower frequency area to be used for return.

They already did that here in South Florida.

Wow, if you're talking about a mid-split, I didn't think there were many systems with that yet.

Do you know how many upstream channels are on your system right now?
Does your system top off at 1GHz?

In South Florida even the limited basic is encrypted and the only way to see channels is with a box or DTA. However we still don't have the channels in the 1000's What is above 1Ghz? My system is 1Ghz but are there higher?
:
5th

OK, so you weren't talking about a mid-split but Limited Basic encryption then.

The area above 1GHz is usually used for MoCA: »Re: Moca questions

Also see: »/speak ··· U1MC0%3D

Orlando 57
@comcast.net

Orlando 57

Anon

There is not enough room in the return for 8 upstream channels. As someone posted already the standard return is 5 to 42 MHz. You can't really use the top 2 MHz because of roll off issues.

So now you have really have under 35 MHz of usable bandwidth. With 6 MHz wide carriers the most you can get is 5 upstream channels.

As far as getting rid of lower downstream channels that would take a complete rebuild of all the amplifiers. all the internal electronics like diplex filters, EQ's, forward and return amps would need to be changed.

It can be done but it will take time and money.

telcodad
MVM
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ

1 recommendation

telcodad

MVM

said by Orlando 57 :

There is not enough room in the return for 8 upstream channels. As someone posted already the standard return is 5 to 42 MHz.

Yes, that was my post, a few back: »Re: 8 Downstream 8 Upstream Modems?

FifthE1ement
Tech Nut
join:2005-03-16
Fort Lauderdale, FL

1 recommendation

FifthE1ement to telcodad

Member

to telcodad
said by telcodad:

OK, so you weren't talking about a mid-split but Limited Basic encryption then.

The area above 1GHz is usually used for MoCA: »Re: Moca questions

Also see: »/speak ··· U1MC0%3D

I quoted his post but I meant simply was replying to his limited basic encryption like you mentioned.

We do have MoCA in use in my area for Comcast's AnyRoom DVR service so I guess we have 1Ghz+? Isn't it just amazing how much they can put through one copper coaxial cable?! I wonder if there are frequencies we don't know about yet and perhaps one day we'll be able to utilize them.

The Motorola SurfBoard SB6141 is working great although Comcast had some issues adding it to my account as they are idiots, lol. One lady insisted that she didn't need the serial number to add the modem to my account, only the MAC! After an hour and no modem I called back and talked to someone who knew what they were doing and took all the info and the modem was running before I hung up. However now they have three modems logged onto my account (the messed up add, the original I had, and my correct one, lol). The Motorola SurfBoard SB6141 saves me $355 over 5 years (5 average lifespan of modem tech, $7 per month Comcast fee for rental X 12 X 5 = $420 - the price I paid for modem $65 = $355 Comcast 5 year savings!). Well worth it as my old modem was a 4x4 and this is a 8x4 although Comcast only utilizes 8x2 in my area.

5th

RR Conductor
Ridin' the rails
Premium Member
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
ARRIS SB6183
Netgear R7000

RR Conductor to FifthE1ement

Premium Member

to FifthE1ement
Comcast is using 8x2 here in Mendocino County, CA too. I am running a Zoom 5341J, and am on the Blast! (50/10) tier.


San Jose is 170 miles south of me, not 50

Downstream Bonded Channels
Channel Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Frequency Power SNR Correctables Uncorrectables
1 Locked QAM256 8 597000000 Hz 2.7 dBmV 42.2 dBmV 39006 3847
2 Locked QAM256 1 549000000 Hz 2.4 dBmV 41.9 dBmV 8774 7060
3 Locked QAM256 2 555000000 Hz 3.3 dBmV 42.0 dBmV 16324 16240
4 Locked QAM256 3 567000000 Hz 3.3 dBmV 42.5 dBmV 25360 2497
5 Locked QAM256 4 573000000 Hz 3.0 dBmV 42.5 dBmV 9244 344
6 Locked QAM256 5 579000000 Hz 3.1 dBmV 42.5 dBmV 4269 140
7 Locked QAM256 6 585000000 Hz 3.2 dBmV 42.5 dBmV 2870 224
8 Locked QAM256 7 591000000 Hz 2.8 dBmV 42.1 dBmV 1241 148

Total Correctables Total Uncorrectables
107088 30500

Upstream Bonded Channels
Channel Lock Status US Channel Type Channel ID Symbol Rate Frequency Power
1 Locked ATDMA 2 5120 Ksym/sec 30600000 Hz 38.3 dBmV
2 Locked TDMA and ATDMA 1 2560 Ksym/sec 25300000 Hz 37.5 dBmV
3 Not Locked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
4 Not Locked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV

K3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium Member
join:2006-01-17
Columbia, PA

K3SGM to FifthE1ement

Premium Member

to FifthE1ement
said by FifthE1ement:

We do have MoCA in use in my area for Comcast's AnyRoom DVR service so I guess we have 1Ghz+?

The MOCA signal is only inside your home, it is only used to transmit between the Anyroom DVR and the other boxes in the house.

Comcast installs a Low-pass filter on the coax where it enters your house, that cuts off anything over 1GHz getting in or out.

MOCA is not used to transfer any signals throughout the rest of Comcast's outdoor cable plant.

Isn't it just amazing how much they can put through one copper coaxial cable?! I wonder if there are frequencies we don't know about yet and perhaps one day we'll be able to utilize them.

Coaxial cable gets really bad beyond the 2-3GHz(microwave frequencies) point, it's way too lossy, and is only good for very short distances.
It can still work at higher frequencies, but is best left to short jumpers of 10 feet or less, often only several feet or less.

An example might be a cell tower, with frequencies in the 1.8GHz to 2.6GHz range, and a short 120ft run of hardline type coax can be 1.25 inches to over 2 inches in diameter, just to keep the signal loss down to an acceptable level.

Beyond that, a Waveguide replaces coax for long signal runs.
It's like a hollow metal tube, it's circular or rectangular in shape, and the radio waves just bounce along inside it, to their destination.

Microwaves behave much more like Light than lower frequency RF signals do, which is why a waveguide is the foundation behind fiber optic cable(fiber was originally called a LightGuide), where light bounces along inside the fiber to it's destination.

I could see pushing a typical cable TV plant up to 1.3GHz, or even to 1.5GHz, but the fiber nodes will need to be completely rebuilt to handle it, and will need to be moved much closer to your home, almost like Fiber-To-The-Curb.

At that point you move the downstream channels to the 1GHz-1.3GHz range, and expand the upstream channels to 5-133MHz.

Leaving a bit of guard band in there above the upstream path, that would support a 50x20 DOCSIS 3.0 modem by todays standards, but with that extra bandwidth, future versions of DOCSIS would likely opt for larger than 6MHz channels, so fewer "bonded channels" but they would also be much larger physical channels.
Like bonding 10 channels but the channels would be 30MHz each, instead of 6MHz.

1+Gbps speeds would almost be the "Starter" Internet tier at that point.