US Cable Support → W.O.W. > Faster Speeds?

Faster Speeds?

Hello Everyone,

We currently have WOW!'s 50/5 package in the Metro Detroit area and I must say, for our needs it is becoming too slow. To elaborate, We have 4 tablets, 4 smartphones, 4 laptops, and 5+ networked entertainment devices, streaming tons of content as well as putting HD Camcorder Videos from trips into online storage. We have been questioned by WOW! as to why so many devices, but shouldn't the real question be "Why Not? Is it not exactly what you advertise the service for?".

Starting about 2 years ago, we started having on and off issues with our service and ever since the first time we ran into issues we have not been able to consistently hit our provisioned speeds. I have been informed by some people that work for WOW that upgrades on the infrastructure have been completed for 100mbps speeds, etc. but it cannot come soon enough, and other companies are offering better services for less money.

Between the issues I have experienced in my own service and the others I have helped with issues (at this point I will reserve my stories as they may make WOW staff look quite "foolish") I feel that I may have no other choice but to leave WOW! since all WOW! has done is jacked up my rates and offered less service, and I don't want to add phone to "save" with the current rates as I would like to keep my landline.

WOW! always was and for the most part still is the best bang for the buck, but alternative choices are becoming more and more lucrative. If I do decide to cancel, and assuming WOW! has a retention's department, If they ask what would keep me I would say boost my upload speed and offer a free HD DVR, along with lowering my current rate to the current advertised offer, because that is as close as WOW! could get to matching there competitor's offers, but WOW! accepting such an offer is seemingly unlikely.

We have been with WOW! for almost 10 years (pre-WOW! days inclusive), but as stated before, there is only so much one can "take" before making a change. Customer service quality has decreased dramatically over the past year, and "It's that kind of experience!" is has now just become "it's THAT kind of experience.". Hopefully WOW! realizes that especially in many parts of the Metro-Detroit area, people have ample choice, and I know plenty of people that have changed services from WOW and aren't looking back. I hope to not be the same.

Any Thoughts?

P.S. As an aside, I must say that if I did not have direct contact info to a few service techs I would probably have left 2 years ago, as the competency of the phone reps has slipped significantly. I know very well what I am talking about when I have an issue (hopefully no elaboration needed), and the fact that I can reach someone that knows that I know what I am talking about has saved me endless amounts of time and frustration, cutting issues that were supposed to take up to a week to repair down to hours. That I can truly thank WOW! for.

My only thought is that you're not the customer they want.

This reminds me, going back to the old modem days, of when US Robotics first brought out the cheaper, less capable Sportster as the consumer-grade counterpart to their industrial Courier line. And immediately, every industrial BBS operator tried to get away with using the Sportser for industrial use in a commercial environment--and were livid to find out that the Sportster not only wasn't designed for that kind of physical abuse, USR also "removed" (via firmware switches) the proprietary USR HST functionality that these users had come to expect from USR for no reason other than "well, the Couriers always had it, and you can't tell me that board and firmware in the Sportster isn't just the Courier stuff!"

As hard as USR tried to set the expectation of the Sportster as a consumer device not intended for industrial use, customers refused to listen. They were looking ONLY at price, price, price, price, price. And they expected the full industrial service they were used to, but now at a lower price simply because the company put out a lower priced--albeit completely separate--product.

Quite a few youngish BBS operators learned a hard business lesson back in the early 90s.

WOW serves a market. You're not it. Fine and dandy. No reason for either side to get emotional; it's a simple business decision. They've made theirs, you need to make yours. If that means parting ways with WOW, well, so be it. WOW will not miss you. And they won't change their business model to hit your sweet spot, because frankly any "residence" that's consistently hitting the top of the 50/10 speed and needs more is simply nowhere near the typical residential user.

I don't know what competition metro Detroit has for broadband and TV, but I would seriously like to see the web site of that competitor that offers higher than 50/10 for less money.

"Give me a product you don't offer, give me freebies, and cut my monthly rate or else I'll leave!" sure sounds like a temper tantrum to me. It also sounds entirely unreasonable inside the current WOW environment.

God love 'em if there's a competitor able to do more for a lower monthly rate (and I'm not talking "teaser" introductory rates, either--I'm talking ongoing). I'd run, not walk, away from WOW if I were you. Why are you even wasting your breath? It's business. And broadband internet access is a fungible. You truly don't care where you get it, as long as you get the bandwidth you want at the price you want.

I should probably clarify a few things.

In regards to usage, it is not by any means a consistent 50/5 utilization, but also does not mean that I ever actually get 50/5. Since I only (at best) average 38mbps, I only get 76% of that 50. The "consistency" is based off of external and internal wow speed testing, not actual usage. The "tons of streaming" probably was a bit exaggerated, as yes it is a lot of streaming, but it only occurs for about an hour and a half a day and only a couple of days a week (as we all have busy schedules), when everyone gets home, wants to sit back and relax and watch a show, video call someone, etc.

I've estimated that we average only about 200gb of usage a month (I say only compared to caps set by other providers and the "Stories" out there about how much people really use when they "go over", like the FIOS 40+tb user). The only reason why I bumped x number of years ago from 15 to 30 and shortly thereafter to 50 was bottle necking for a short period of time during certain days. If it wasn't for that temporary bottleneck, 15 would have been just fine (minus the upload speed of course).

I would disagree with adam and say that we are almost exactly the type of customer they want (besides one that doesn't use it at all), one that pays for more than they "truly need" (I pay $55 dollars more than 15mbps tier for equivalent cable bundle), but buys it to cover those "bursts" that may occur.

In regards to the implied temper tantrum, it wasn't about "getting free stuff", it was about what would equalize WOW!'s offering to outside offers. I am not by any means asking to pay less than advertised, and if a 100 mbps tier was available, I'd buy it (and pay $75+ more than the 15mbps tier equivalent for the approx. 8 hours a month that we max out)!

I "waste" my breath because I used to really like this company, and it would be nice to see it come back to what it used to be, where 15 meant 15 and although a bit more pricey at times, you almost never had an issue. At least that was my experience.

Posting about the endless amount of issues (double billings, loss of service, 1mbps throughput, constant dropping) we have experienced over the past 2 years would put things a bit more into perspective, but hopefully this clarification does that well enough for now.

As an aside, it seems that very few people at WOW can comprehend what I mean by true speed. The 38 mbps average is using WOW!'s speed test, but that only tests the internal WOW network. What about the outside network? A gigabit internal connection would be worthless if your external (tier 1, etc.) connections are saturated to no end. For the Metro Detroit Area, I use the U of M Flint speed test or the Washington DC speed test on speedtest.net to test real throughput because I have found those to be the most reliable and accurate both on WOW!'s network as well as others.

I agree, if you're not getting what you're paying for, then either move down to a tier that (a) WOW can provide consistently, and (b) which meets your needs. If both of those things can't simultaneously be accomplished, AND if there's an alternative that does accomplish what you want, I repeat--it'd be silly not to leave WOW and go there.

I'm at the 15/2 tier, family of four, sometimes two Netflix streams at once plus whatever web browsing may be happening, and no problems here. The only time I don't see 15/2 in either WOW's internal speed test site or at speedtest.net is when something is broken, at which point I come here and see if I'm alone or if others are having the problem, in which case I give out a public yell for Dan. Sometimes it's just me, and sometimes it's just one of those things that happens and then goes away. I chalk that up to one-time unexpected maintenance, and go on with my life.

Maybe you are the customer they overtly want, but which under the hood they are unable to provide for. Again, if that's the case--and your testing shows that it may very well be the case that they're over-promising and under-delivering--and you have an alternative, move on. It's no big deal.

And again, if those "outside offers" are for real, you'd be a fool not to take them. Every time they come up, take them. Once you're in with Provider A, let Provider B tender an offer. Move to B, then let A come back in six months (you'd count as a "new user" then) and tender an offer. Etc, etc. It's not your problem if that's how they want to do business. Just roll with it.

Me, I've *never* had a problem calling WOW and explaining about the "outside offers" that are constantly banging on my door, and having the front-line reps take care of me. I don't like to jinx things but I don't pay retail price. I've always attributed the ease with which I get my bill "adjusted" with "promotional" rates to the fact that WOW knows darn well that T-W is also hardwired through my backyard, and that I *do* have choices--and that it's easier for them to keep me than to replace me as a customer.

Without getting in between your discussion, because quite frankly I think you both make good points, I do have one thing.

Adam, despite your opinions and what you two are debating, and your personal experience, just from friends/family, and what you you see on this forum, do you think WOW is the same as they were 2 years ago?

Forget about him not being the target consumer, forget his usage and what he wants, can you really sit there and say at the end of the day WOW has the same reliability, consistency, support, and service offerings compared to the competition as they did 2 years ago?

For me and people I know service has sucked over the past 2 years from a customer service standpoint. Previous to 2 years ago I never had any internet or TV issues, now there is STILL HD breakup, and internet goes out more than it should. Can't get any support. 2 years ago the industry was relatively stable for a long time, and now that HD is pretty much the standard, 3D is gaining popularity, 4k around the corner, apps, streaming deals, higher speeds, etc... WOW is severely lacking behind the rest of the industry.

In 2 years they went from offering the same thing as everyone else for less with great customer service, to now they are lacking on offering, prices are slowly turning into being about the same as everyone else, and support is declining. Spending over 1 billion to expand and buy other providers, can't help but feel that money would have been better spent overhauling their existing infrastructure. Now they have to improve and integrate the other systems into their existing and that is just more time and money playing catch up and not catching up fast enough.

Is WOW what they were two years ago? Excellent question.

Let's just say, after last year's fiasco I'm still not convinced they are--but I'm open to hearing opposing points of view on that.

I guess I was caught completely by surprise at the apparent complete 180 that happened at WOW last year.

To WOW's credit, I haven't seen a repeat of the bandwidth problems that I suffered for a few months last year. And after they got their call center issues squared away, my one call to them--to talk about the billing increase--seemed to be back to the way things were.

And to be fair, I really don't know any details concerning the competition here and how well they're doing. I do know that if you want many of the things you've mentioned--higher speeds, apps, etc, all the gravy things--you've got to go to T-W. WOW remains a contender in the basics, but you're right in that they aren't a player in the goodies.

For those of us who are happy with the basics, WOW wins on price. You can get all the basics from T-W, but you'll pay a significantly higher price. Hey, somebody has to pay for the private planes and the steak and Scotch dinners those T-W execs enjoy.

When things go well, WOW is fine.

But don't mistake that as being that I disagree with you. You have many valid points.

I work for a library system. Every branch has a 50 meg fiber line. 50 meg upload and download speeds.

We have roughly anywhere from 20 computers all the way up to 70 computers per branch. Not to mention VoiP phone system and free wireless service for anyone bringing in a laptop.

We rarely cap out on speeds even in the biggest branches. 50 meg seems to be the sweet spot. We have people watching youtube, going on facebook, playing online games, listening to online radio... you name it the public will do it. Again we rarely cap out on speeds with everything going at once.

So to say you need something faster than 50 meg .. it totally shocks me. It leads me to believe you're using it for torrent downloading or watching 6+ HD netflix streams at once.

My guess is you're not getting the full 50 meg service you're paying for.

All areas served by WOW in Metro Detroit are also served by at least one competitor that offers faster speeds. If you are unable to achieve 50 Mbps download and 5 Mbps upload (or whatever your tier is) consistently using a DOCSIS 3.0 modem with channel bonding, you need to get in touch with WOW_Dan as to why.

I agree. And my guess is that he's an "oddball" for WOW in that he's actually measuring it and wanting to hold them accountable for it.

But coming here to hold them accountable is the wrong course of action. He needs to start the process of having a tech come out and evaluate things, and escalate it from there.

I wouldn't be surprised if he forced them into finding an infrastructure problem that would otherwise have gone unnoticed. And I'm sure they will fix it--if he brings it to their attention.

Let me clarify a little further.

I do not expect my service to be 100% perfect (no service is), and no, I am not "trying to hold them accountable", although it should be irrelevant because one's service should be reasonably reliable, correct? You don't pay for 5 gallons of gas at the gas station and get only 3.7 gallons, because that has been proven in court to be a crime. Digital Transactions are a bit different given there variable nature, but that is not my dispute at all as I stated I would pay for more if it was offered.

Nevertheless,

Here is just one of many stories from the past 18 months:

One day I start experiencing the issue recently described by posters on this forum of getting a few pings in the normal range and than getting 1000+ ms pings. This was effectively draining the service to being unusable as pages would just stop loading half-way through. This persisted for a few days, and than I called WOW. The representative and myself went through all the diagnostic checks, and found no solution, so the rep started telling me how it was my fault (not saying "if" it is my fault instead)and that they would send out a tech but it would cost me if the issue was I my end. I knew quite well what the issue was (from my experience) but no one at that point would listen, so I said okay, make the appointment (for roughly 5 days later, which is unacceptable in itself).

Appointment day rolls around, and WOW!, no one shows up! I call and they tell me "Oh, well you never made an appointment". Assuring the rep that I made the appointment, they look again. She was able to locate the notes from the call and sure enough, I made an appointment, but they "lost" it. You would think at this point the answer would be "We will send someone out right away", but no, you will have to wait another 3 days (not a weekend I might add).

Tech comes out, I explain the issue and what I think the cause is, and he says "not a problem, just have to run through diagnostics before we can move forward". After approx. 4 hours of diagnostics, the Tech says "no problems on your end, we need to check further out."

About two hours later, multiple techs come out and start inspecting every last inch of there outside wiring, of which this took them a day and a half to do. Apparently it was myself and 1 other person that had Docsis 3.0 that were affected.

(Second Story that I will post later today will go here)

Finally, a tech that understands that I'm not just blowing smoke listens to me telling them that they need to check further in the WOW! Network and they call in to what I can only assume was CMTS, and sure enough, it was exactly what I thought it was, a malfunctioning switch.

A week and a half after the first call, service was finally restored, but at what cost? Endless amount of man hours when anyone with reasonable knowledge and logic should have quickly realized the issue.

Does that show Customer Service at it's best? And the "best" part was they had the audacity to try to charge me for "installation" on my bill. Once again, A+ Customer Service /s . This is only one of many stories.

Of course you should hold them accountable.

Funny story: twice--not once, but twice--I had exactly the situation you described.

Each time, it turned out to be something way back in their infrastructure, something that it took Dan to figure out.

And that shouldn't be. Hence my reservations about answering the question, is WOW what they were two years ago?

If reliable service hinges on Dan not hitting the lottery and disappearing, and being the only guy left who knows anything, then something's wrong.

i would love faster download speeds to compete with comcast in my area, but the bigger bottleneck for me is the upload. 3/5up is way to slow for 30/50 down. it should be at least 30/5 & 50/10.
a better router would be nice too if they're going to force us to use it (i know you can bypass and hook up your own, but then tech support blames that if you have a problem and doesn't want to help)

Did not get the chance to write the second story, but if I find time later, I will do so.

Spoke with customer service today, took over an hour and a half. Representative kept complaining of ridiculously slow internet. Shocker!

The one thing I will say is that the old notion of "Well people will just host websites off of xxx ISP" is flawed in my opinion. Hosting these days is dirt cheap so unless you are a mid to large sized business, the logic simply is not there. On the other hand, the personal uses of upload speeds have increased dramatically. For the more tech-savvy there is remote VPN access and for the casual user there are large uploads of pictures, etc. as well as HD video conferencing with family and so on. The majority of other providers give 50/10 rather than 50/5. Heck, ideally I could go for 50/50 or at least 25/25 symmetric. Maybe companies could adopt a model (prior art reserved, all rights reserved) of here is 50 mbps, choose how to divide that 50 between upload and download, 100, 200, and so on. If one is an online video blogger maybe they want more up than down, and if you are a family of streamers a download-heavy choice with limited upload (the only option we are really offered today). Realistically speaking, that third option wouldn't really happen save for a "Super Promo" due to the inherent abuse possibilities. At the end of the day (and a bit off topic), bandwidth caps would not be and are not a true remedy for anyone other than an ISP's (or mobile carriers) wallet.

Well, again, McDonald's isn't going after the Five Guys customer. If you want the Five Guys experience, just go to Five Guys.

Two different providers, two different experiences, while both nominally selling burgers and fries.

I will add that I do not believe faster upload speeds have anything to do with someone running a server at their home. I would get a hosting service if I wanted that. However with the advent of all the "cloud storage" services, a faster upload would really be nice. I happen to use one of the many cloud services for photo backup, etc. My 30/3 service could be better. I really do not need faster downloads, uploads are another thing altogether.

dont start your own business, because with that thought you would never make it.
say ford makes a car that sells for $20k. then every other manufacturer starts making a similar car that has twice the horsepower, 50% better gas mileage, and better features for the same price. is ford going to say, oh well, we dont want those customers anyways? no, because they know that would be retarded and put them out of business. they do what they can to make themselves better than (or at least on par with) the competition.

ignoring the lowest for comcast/wow, and speeds depend on area.
wow has 15/1 for $50, 30/3 for $70, and 50/5 for $90.
comcast has 25/5 for $50, 50/10 for $70, 105/25 for $115, and some areas 300/25 for $120ish. not counting discounts for first 6 months.
verizon has 15/5 for $50, 50/25 for $60, 75/35 for $70, 150/65 for $130.
add in google fiber and other carriers depending on area.

am i saying they have to offer twice the speed at half the price of everybody else? no. but they need to at least compete. wow used to offer the best service, at the best prices. now service has gone down, prices have gone up.

Tell all that to Hyundai/Kia.

Then go ask why Honda ran scared and started cheapening their products tremendously so they could maintain profits while "competing" with Hyundai pricing.

Tell that to Wal-Mart.

Tell that to the Dollar Store.

They don't have any problem bringing in customers, despite their not providing the products that Nordstrom provides.

I repeat: WOW's product offering is well balanced for their pricing.

Having lots of devices is getting to be the norm. My wife and I have 2 children, ages 8 and almost 6. We have 2 laptops that we use, 3 smartphones total (wife kept her old iPhone for kids to play with in the house), we have the Xbox360 and the PS3 which often stream Netflix or HBOGO. We also have a Roku box in the bedroom. We have an Android tablet and I'm using a Google Chromebook right now to make this post.

Fortunately for me, on the 15/2 plan, I always get my advertised speeds and I don't have any problems with it. Our usage is spread out enough that we don't feel it's too slow, laggy, etc.

I would be very irritated though to pay extra and now get at least 95% of what I was paying for.

Meh its ok. I would prefer this : »fiber.google.com/about/

I agree @ the 30 meg mark the upload should be 5 meg mark.

I would love to get faster speeds, considering I'm paying $85 for the 50Mbps I don't want to know how much a faster tier would cost.

The current 50Mbps tier is expensive now after Comcast's speed upgrades. I am hopeful that WOW can offer similar upgrades or lower the cost.

they should start offering freebies like a free static ip address on the 50 meg tier also, along with a faster upload speed. i know comcast sales people have been door to door in our area to promote their stuff.

People on here keep talking about Comcast. I have never had them, but from what I hear, they are worse than dealing with the devil as far as customer service. So far, WOW has been diligent when assisting me with issues. They are willing to go above and beyond to help.

Comcast isn't even available in Columbus