dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
1408
share rss forum feed


Grumpy
Premium
join:2001-07-28
NW CT
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T Yahoo

Oil question

2000 GMC Sonoma with 2.2 liter 4 banger, 146K on the clock.

I have a bottle of Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 Heavy Duty Fully Synthetic Motor Oil I'd like to use up, as it's just sitting on the shelf.

»www.shell.com/rotella/products/t6.html

Suppose it's OK for this application?

Thanks

Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2
I know some guys run Rotella all of the time. From what I recall on my own research, is it is a good oil and has lots of detergents. Obviously debatable on higher mileage engines.... The only way to be sure on its effects would be an oil analysis like something from Blackstone Labs.
--
"Retreat? Hell, we just got here!"
-Cpt Lloyd W. Williams, USMC


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to Grumpy


I wouldn't put 5W-40 in a 2.2, and for sure not mix synthetic with non-synthetic oil.


Grumpy
Premium
join:2001-07-28
NW CT
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T Yahoo

2 edits
reply to Grumpy
It occurred to me later the Rotella supply is only 4 quarts, and so I put in some Castrol 5W 30 instead. The 2.2 usually takes around 4.5 quarts.
(I did an overnight drain this time, because the mosquitoes here fairly demanded it. )

I had the Rotella in stock for an air cooled motorcycle I used to own. It's a fairly popular oil for many bikes. Shell even lists the JASO-MA motorcycle spec [wet clutch friction test, etc.] on the product label, even though they had diesels in mind when they first developed Rotella many moons ago.

Thanks for the replies.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to mattmag
said by mattmag:

I wouldn't put 5W-40 in a 2.2, and for sure not mix synthetic with non-synthetic oil.

Why would you not mix a synthetic with a conventional oil? The only downside would be shortening the longevity of the extended drain interval, but otherwise would be fine. (Though I do agree using a full synthetic is the best option.)

Can AMSOIL motor oils be mixed with other brands?

Answer:
Yes. AMSOIL synthetic motor oils are compatible with other conventional and synthetic motor oils. Mixing AMSOIL motor oils with other oils, however, will shorten the oil’s life expectancy and reduce the performance benefits. AMSOIL does not support extended drain intervals where oils have been mixed. Mixing other oils with AMSOIL motor oils may also void the AMSOIL limited warranty.



DeltaElite
We Dont Dial 911

join:2002-03-29
Tucker, GA
kudos:1
reply to Grumpy
I agree with Mattmag....

Wear and tear with 140k withstanding, that oil pump isnt gonna like the thicker oil and the motor clearances are much tighter then the old days when 40w was king. Youve gotten 140k out of the motor, give it what the Maker intended...

I'd use the 40w in the chainsaw bar or buy a motorcycle to use it in.....

--
Protect your right to keep and arm bears!


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

1 edit
said by DeltaElite:

I agree with Mattmag....

Wear and tear with 140k withstanding, that oil pump isnt gonna like the thicker oil and the motor clearances are much tighter then the old days when 40w was king. Youve gotten 140k out of the motor, give it what the Maker intended...

I'd use the 40w in the chainsaw bar or buy a motorcycle to use it in.....

I'm not disagreeing with Mattmag's opinion about the 40w oil. I'm just questioning the mixing of synthetic and conventional oils. If I had 3 quarts of full synthetic 5W-30 and one quart of conventional 5W-30 and needed 4 quarts of 5W-30 for an oil change, there really isn't any reason not to mix them other than it'll shorten the extended drain life of the full synthetic and you won't get the full lubricating performance of a full synthetic. As long as you plan to change it around 3K-5K miles, neither should be an issue.

But otherwise, as a general rule one should use the weight recommended by the manufacturer.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
reply to Hahausuck
said by Hahausuck:

The only way to be sure on its effects would be an oil analysis like something from Blackstone Labs.

Have you (or anybody else in this forum) used Blackstone Labs for a UOA? I'm some time away from doing one on my vehicle, but I'm looking for a good, reasonably priced oil analysis. Amsoil has one at a preferred price of about $18 (not including shipping costs to and from my home). Blackstone Labs is priced at $25 plus shipping (and offers free shipping of the kit to me). Seems to be within a few bucks of each other really..

»www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/o···KIT06-EA

»www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to mattmag
said by mattmag:

for sure not mix synthetic with non-synthetic oil.

Bad advice. that is just some stupid myth .

In fact the do make "Synthetic blends" so mixing them will not damage anything

I would not use 5-40w
since the engine is most likely designed for 0w-30 to 10w-30 (USE weight based on temperature ) i.e 0w30 for very cold winters 10w for summer

5W-30, 10W-30, 15W-30 all have the same viscosity. The difference is the viscosity when the oil is cold.


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2
said by Anonymous_:

5W-30, 10W-30, 15W-30 all have the same viscosity. The difference is the viscosity when the oil is cold.

Uh dude...? They have the same upper VI, but not the lower VI. It is not the 'same viscosity'. They're different for a reason.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
said by Juggernaut:

said by Anonymous_:

5W-30, 10W-30, 15W-30 all have the same viscosity. The difference is the viscosity when the oil is cold.

Uh dude...? They have the same upper VI, but not the lower VI. It is not the 'same viscosity'. They're different for a reason.

They are different viscosities, but I think Anonymous_ was getting at the idea that at operating temperatures, they all share the same 30 weight characteristic.


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2
No, they're not. The lower VI does not match op temps, only the upper VI does. Therefore, they are not the same. Period.

If anyone doubts that, argue with SAE.
--
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots." ~ Albert Einstein


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
said by Juggernaut:

No, they're not. The lower VI does not match op temps, only the upper VI does. Therefore, they are not the same. Period.

If anyone doubts that, argue with SAE.

But at operating temps, they are the same.

Now I have that song stuck in my head... "One of these things is not like the others..."


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2

2 recommendations

Damn, now you're arguing black and white. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. The upper and lower VI's are DIFFERENT. That makes them DIFFERENT.

Flour and corn starch thicken, but they're NOT the same.

Get it now?

For a guy that claims to know a lot about oil, you seem to know jack-crap. Maybe you just spout what you read about Amsoil.
--
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots." ~ Albert Einstein


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

2 edits
Calm down. I don't claim to be an expert on anything. And you are correct in saying that an 0W-30 is different from a 5W-30 from a 10W-30. In reality, a 5W-30 is really a 5 weight oil with molecule chains that will curl, thickening up the oil as it rises in temperature. So the "5 weight oil" (in a 5W-30) will have the flow properties of a "30 weight" oil when the engine is at full operating temperature.

I know a lot of guys who run 0W-XX because they believe the thinner oil is better at cold start, allowing the oil to lubricate the engine quicker in colder climates or winter conditions.

But at the higher end of a multi-weight oil, An 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30, and straight 30 weight should all have the same flow properties at full engine operating temperatures. And that's what Anonymous_ was getting at. In reality, the first number is most important during cold starts depending on the ambient climate and lubrication needs of an engine. As long as the operating temp oil "weight" remains what the manufacturer recommends, the engine should run as designed at full operating temperature.


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2
Bull.Shit.

You have no idea what Anonymous was getting at, as you are not them. As for your statement above, you really do know nothing about oil. Only 'theories', and opinion. 'They believe' is not fact. While 0-XW may flow easier, it's not designed for the engine. Period.

Please spare me the reply/ retort/ rebuttal. Your comments have no credibility with me.
--
"I fear the day that technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots." ~ Albert Einstein


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
said by Juggernaut:

You have no idea what Anonymous was getting at, as you are not them. As for your statement above, you really do know nothing about oil. Only 'theories', and opinion. 'They believe' is not fact.

Please spare me the reply/ retort/ rebuttal. Your comments have no credibility with me.

That's fine. Check out this forum post that is pretty informative. I think it explains the concept pretty well: »ltr450.theatvchannel.com/invisio···567.html


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
reply to Grumpy
That's a significantly heavier diesel oil than what's needed (5W-30 or 10w-30) for your engine.

If you have no other use for it and just want to use up that oil, during the summer time you can can add 1 qt of it to 3.5 qt 5W-30.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to Juggernaut
said by Juggernaut:

Damn, now you're arguing black and white. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. The upper and lower VI's are DIFFERENT. That makes them DIFFERENT.

Flour and corn starch thicken, but they're NOT the same.

Get it now?

For a guy that claims to know a lot about oil, you seem to know jack-crap. Maybe you just spout what you read about Amsoil.

Just like DEXRON III and DEXRON VI are not compatible

Even though GM claims DEXRON VI IS fully compatible with DEXRON III Transmissions

This is not true as the Transmission shop used DEXRON VI and all it would do is leak out. Rate of 1/2 to 3/4 quart per week.

I have drained the DEXRON VI and Reinstalled the DEXRON III and I have not had any leaks since

--
Live Free or Die Hard...


BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
kudos:1

3 edits
reply to Grumpy
for the numbers fight, I'm just going to leave this here(mostly because i can't be arsed to find a newer one)

»www.metrotechsystems.ca/images/v···able.jpg
and because i'm bored
»www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/moto···scosity/

*grabs popcorn*
(edit, cleared out link to not very clear chart)


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
It's interesting to look at that temperature recommendation chart and compare that to Briggs' chart: »www.briggsandstratton.com/us/en/···ndations

Granted, Briggs' chart is for primarily air-cooled small engines, but there are some differences to note- the largest being that Briggs recommends full synthetic 5W-30 across the range of temps, claiming it to be the best protection at any temperature.

Interesting... And I like popcorn too!


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to BonezX
That link is pretty good actually, and this quote from that link sums it up well:

I can't tell you how many times I have heard someone, usually an auto mechanic, say that they wouldn't use a 5W-30 motor oil because it is, "Too thin." Then they may use a 10W-30 or SAE 30 motor oil. At engine operating temperatures these oils are the same. The only time the 5W-30 oil is "thin" is at cold start up conditions where you need it to be "thin."

The link I posted earlier has a really good explanation in plain terms. But I think your link has some great explanations as well.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to SwedishRider
said by SwedishRider:

said by Hahausuck:

The only way to be sure on its effects would be an oil analysis like something from Blackstone Labs.

Have you (or anybody else in this forum) used Blackstone Labs for a UOA? I'm some time away from doing one on my vehicle, but I'm looking for a good, reasonably priced oil analysis.

I've used them for about 10 years now. I started with the first oil change on my then new Sprinter van. I've had oil from every change analyzed and since also had a few analysis done on other engines. I highly recommend them. I especially like the personalized comments they give with the lab report. The comments give a nice concise translation of the technical report in layman terms that anyone can understand. They also do a really good job of comparing the current test to past tests that have been done on the vehicle as well as to all the tests they have in their database of the same type vehicle/engine etc which are very helpful in showing trends and how the engine is performing over time and what is normal for the engine at the current mileage, etc.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
said by robbin:

I've used them for about 10 years now. I started with the first oil change on my then new Sprinter van. I've had oil from every change analyzed and since also had a few analysis done on other engines. I highly recommend them. I especially like the personalized comments they give with the lab report. The comments give a nice concise translation of the technical report in layman terms that anyone can understand. They also do a really good job of comparing the current test to past tests that have been done on the vehicle as well as to all the tests they have in their database of the same type vehicle/engine etc which are very helpful in showing trends and how the engine is performing over time and what is normal for the engine at the current mileage, etc.

Thank you! Blackstone it is then!


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Juggernaut
said by Juggernaut:

As for your statement above, you really do know nothing about oil. Only 'theories', and opinion. 'They believe' is not fact. While 0-XW may flow easier, it's not designed for the engine. Period.

Just out of curiosity and to confirm my position, I searched a bit to see the thoughts behind those who go with a 0W-XX vs a 5W-XX, and it's pretty much what I thought... some motorists like the 0W for colder weather starting (and some like it in the summer too, the thinking being it reduces startup wear in all seasons).

Check a few out:
»www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub···=2527712

»www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub···=2725444

»www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub···=2459480

»www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub···=2393519

»www.mytractorforum.com/showpost.···count=12

The links could go on and on... Seems like quite a few folks like the 0W-XX oils (and I'm sure others don't ) To each their own! But it seems to be a pretty common switch, and in all reality, the difference in a 5W-XX down to a 0W-XX is relatively minor.


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3
reply to Anonymous_
said by Anonymous_:

said by mattmag:

for sure not mix synthetic with non-synthetic oil.

Bad advice. that is just some stupid myth .

Pardon me, but I don't spout "Stupid myths", I base my statements on professional experience and education, thank you very much.


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

1 edit
said by mattmag:

said by Anonymous_:

said by mattmag:

for sure not mix synthetic with non-synthetic oil.

Bad advice. that is just some stupid myth .

Pardon me, but I don't spout "Stupid myths", I base my statements on professional experience and education, thank you very much.

Mattmag, I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I would like to hear your explanation as to why mixing synthetic and non-synthetic oils is problematic.

You have said that you based your original statement on professional experience and education but did not go on to respond to the core issue of mixing oils. Do you have any evidence that it is problematic or oil company recommendations not to do so? I have found multiple oil companies including Mobil 1 and Amsoil that document that mixing synthetics and conventionals is not ideal but perfectly acceptable.


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

1 recommendation


Well I didn't expound because I have no desire to be in a pissing contest either. Since you asked the way you did however, I'll tell you what I think.

Mixing of oils, whether they are conventional, synthetics or a blends can be problematic mostly due to the differences in the way some of the lubricating and pumping characteristics act between the different oils involved. The way an oil develops its load-bearing film will be different from the next oil, and this is most prevalent between synthetic and non-synthetics, but it is also there between conventionals as well. Those differences, and they are small, can cause momentary spot-changes in how the oil film is responding to a load, which can potentially lead to abnormal bearing wear. Remember, it isn't just "oily parts" rubbing together, the oil actually has a shear strength that prevents the crankshaft from touching the bearings. Same goes for the other lubricated moving parts as well.

Odd things can also happen as the oil is pumped, as the mixing of oils in some cases just isn't perfectly homogenous, and the result is potential for cavitation.

This is without a doubt being terribly picky I admit, but I spent much time on my racing engines ensuring things like this didn't become an issue. I also take that experience over to the "daily driver" customer side as well, hence my advice not to mix oils of any type. It just makes good sense to avoid it if at all possible. As for the oil manufacturers themselves saying its OK, take a big dose of the response that says "it isn't ideal". They want to sell oil, and especially the synthetic vendors don't like anything to seem like a negative that may impede a sale, and I can appreciate that.

So my advice has always been, don't do it. I do not believe that to be bad advice, but sound reasoning. Will mixing them cause immediate and irreversible damage? Most likely not, but it doesn't hurt to avoid the situation if you can.



SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
Thanks for the thoughtful response. Seems reasonable to me. I agree ideally it's not the best idea to mix them, but personally, I haven't seen any ill effects to vehicles of people who do mix. I know a couple of guys that make their own "synthetic-blended oils" with one part synthetic (Amsoil or Mobil 1) and three parts conventional, their thinking being that synthetic blends are a ripoff because you really have no idea the ratio of synthetic to conventional. Hence, they mix it themselves.

I know another guy who swore by Lucas Oil Stabilizer, and added it to every vehicle (motorcycles included) and had great luck with it. He tried some Amsoil from me and now uses it over the conventional with Lucas... but he still says that conventional and Lucas are made for one another.

The only thing I am against are the crazy oil additives like Slick 50, Duralube, and Prolong (and others). I have seen some weird things with those additives, both in person and on the web, and I would always recommend to avoid those. Lucas gets a pass as an additive, but I personally would avoid it given I use Amsoil.

I have no experience with race car engines, so I can't speak to those. But for the grocery-getter cars I've seen, oil mixing hasn't done any harm (that I'm aware of anyway).

But at its core, I do agree with you. It's not ideal to mix synthetics and conventionals, and as a general rule I don't... but personally, I don't see the harm in doing so if one is in a pinch, or if that it one's preference to do so.

And just for the record, it's okay for reasonable people to disagree. Many times there are multiple ways to fix or look at an issue. It's okay for me to like extended drain Amsoil and for you to like 3K conventional oil changes. It doesn't need to be combative when suggestions clash.

I appreciate your thoughts on this oil topic.


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3
said by SwedishRider:

But at its core, I do agree with you. It's not ideal to mix synthetics and conventionals, and as a general rule I don't... but personally, I don't see the harm in doing so if one is in a pinch, or if that it one's preference to do so.

That pretty much sums it up nicely. Avoid it if you can, but don't lose sleep over it if you do. My background makes me lean heavily toward caution, and removing risk components where practical.

As far as racing goes, I became a true believer in synthetics while watching the difference in HP on a dyno. One of my engines was a 406CID small-block Chevy, single 4-barrel, on gasoline. I *always* ran Kendall GT 20W-50, and swore by it. The guy who was doing the dyno work had also extensively modified my cylinder heads, so I had a lot of faith in him. He convinced me to switch over between pulls, and I saw the numbers go from 705 to 725HP just like that. I was blown away. 20HP is a huge gain no matter how you get it, and for just changing oils it was hard to dispute. That oil was Royal Purple 0W. Incredible stuff.