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« HBO costs too much.
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This is a sub-selection from give me standalone HBOGO


wesm
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join:1999-07-29
Redmond, WA

2 recommendations

reply to inteller

Re: give me standalone HBOGO

said by inteller:

and this "problem" will go away.

Don't consume content you didn't pay for and this problem will "never exist." If HBO's business model is antithetical to you, then don't partake. Only staying away from things that make HBO money--such as encouraging others to watch their shows and subsequently buy the DVDs--will encourage HBO to see what you perceive as the error of their ways and, hopefully, change it. This isn't life or death, it's a TV show.


El Quintron
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said by wesm:

said by inteller:

and this "problem" will go away.

Don't consume content you didn't pay for and this problem will "never exist."

I suppose you're a big believer in abstinence education as well.
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wesm
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Redmond, WA

1 recommendation

said by El Quintron:

I suppose you're a big believer in abstinence education as well.

Don't be rude; whether or not to pay to watch a television show is in a completely different area code than reproductive education.

Besides, no, I don't.


bionicRod
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reply to wesm
I don't think HBO's model is unethical (anitethical? :P), it's their channel to do with as they please. I DO think it's stupid, antiquated, and encourages piracy. Please don't take this as me excusing people who pirate...I don't. But making content easier to access and afford reduces piracy. Locking it down only encourages it.
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El Quintron
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reply to wesm
said by wesm:

said by El Quintron:

I suppose you're a big believer in abstinence education as well.

Don't be rude; whether or not to pay to watch a television show is in a completely different area code than reproductive education.

Besides, no, I don't.

A blanket statement like "don't pirate" really isn't helpful either.

HBO wasn't even available in Canada, nor was its entire catalogue through its partners until 2008, there's a whole market issue that you ignored by making your initial statement.
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wesm
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said by El Quintron:

A blanket statement like "don't pirate" really isn't helpful either.

HBO wasn't even available in Canada, nor was its entire catalogue through its partners until 2008, there's a whole market issue that you ignored by making your initial statement.

And the sixth season of Murdoch Mysteries isn't available in the United States unless you're a U.S. viewer who subscribes to Comcast in certain areas of the country (which, until recently, I wasn't) that provides CBC. It sucks, is annoying, and means I can't find out whether or not that time traveler was full of crap, but them's the breaks. Again, it's just TV so I'll wait until Netflix or somebody here gets it. Fortunately, Continuum is still picked up by Syfy.


bionicRod
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said by wesm:

Again, it's just TV so I'll wait until Netflix or somebody here gets it.

The difference being that Netflix (edit: streaming) will never, ever get Game of Thrones. You have to shell out for a top tier cable subscription every month just to watch it legally, there is no other option. Piracy will continue on this scale because of that.
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El Quintron
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reply to bionicRod
said by bionicRod:

But making content easier to access and afford reduces piracy. Locking it down only encourages it.

Agreed, but the CEO of HBO has stated that losses due to piracy are less than losses they would incur if they abandoned their current model which isn't to go after TV Subs but to get other channels to pay to be bundled with HBO, which is where the bulk of their income comes from.

I did read this in a reputable interview last year, so I'll try and post the link here or PM you with it at some point.
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El Quintron
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reply to wesm
said by wesm:

but them's the breaks.

If I can't buy it, then I'm pirating it, and them's breaks.
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markofmayhem
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said by El Quintron:

said by wesm:

but them's the breaks.

If I can't buy it, then I'm pirating it, and them's breaks.

It's for sale, so buy it. HBO did not lock this title down.
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PaulHikeS2

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reply to bionicRod
said by bionicRod:

said by wesm:

Again, it's just TV so I'll wait until Netflix or somebody here gets it.

The difference being that Netflix (edit: streaming) will never, ever get Game of Thrones. You have to shell out for a top tier cable subscription every month just to watch it legally, there is no other option. Piracy will continue on this scale because of that.

Not true. Buy the DVDs. Rent the DVDs. Borrow DVDs from library. All are legal, and while abailability of the last two may vary, in this country everyone can buy the DVDs.
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El Quintron
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reply to markofmayhem
said by markofmayhem:

It's for sale, so buy it. HBO did not lock this title down.

You're missing the point.
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markofmayhem
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said by El Quintron:

said by markofmayhem:

It's for sale, so buy it. HBO did not lock this title down.

You're missing the point.

I'm not, I'm trying to defend the definition of "locked down". There is certainly an argument that the premium for earlier viewership is extreme, but this is not a case where it is "not available" or locked down to alternative legal consumption.
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tshirt
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reply to bionicRod
said by bionicRod:

... But making content easier to access and afford reduces piracy. Locking it down only encourages it.

We could stop bank robbers by giving the money first. But we have to set some standard, and the people that own the money put it in the bank for safe keeping and to earn interest.
The people that own the rights (actors, director, investors, even HBO) put the show they own on that restricted channel for safekeeping and to earn a return on their investment in the product.

If either gets stolen they will cease to have a reason to use the bank use HBO( I think that's what you are hoping) but if no safekeeping and return is available they will just stop making them.

Pirates steal from the content owners, but their failure to pay for the use of it increases the share that honest viewers pay
ie Pirates steal from YOU.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to markofmayhem
Well if you count streaming or buying the physical media sometime in March of 2014 not locked down, I dont know what is and like $80 for the bluray. If you realize there are only 10 episodes that works out to like $8 an episode, which IMHO is crazy high. Of course I wont buy it, but if you do the math that is a serious ask considering that I can get a full year of Netflix for just the blu ray of GOT.

On the other hand, Time Warner owns it, and can go to market as they please, so it's a corporate decision...Godspeed to living in the 18th century. For the vocal minority a huge swath (20+mil just in the US) blindly subscribe, so they don't want to disrupt that very profitable channel model (they can run reruns during the offseason to keep subs or allow hbogo). So I get that for now being flexible does not make sense as they subscriber base it steady and large. If 6 million pirate, how many of them subscribe to HBO/HBOGO, buy stuff, read the books. It's not a zero sum game, and they know it. Look at how draconian Disney is with their films and how much $$$ they make on ancillary product...

If I recall in the last ten years, my top ten show are almost entirely from the Time Warner properties, so you have to pay for quality. I mean you can get teenagers running around a stage or some tropical island for "free" on broadcast.

They must have sent some of their execs to Microsoft to poison the well over there too


88615298
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reply to wesm
said by wesm:

Don't consume content you didn't pay for and this problem will "never exist."

Listen as people will tell you I'm very anti-pirating. If you don't want to pay for something you should then you should do without. I also see a HUGE difference between the person that says "I should get everything for free because I'm entitled" and one that says "I'm willing to pay you the SAME money( or even more money ) you're getting now if you just make it available to me in a more convenient way"

The first person won't pay for HBO no matter how HBO offers it, the 2nd one would. So offering HBOGo won't stop the first pirate but it will stop the 2nd. So if some company has problem and there is a reasonable solution and they refuse to use that solution it's hard for me to feel sorry for them.

There fear that cable companies will stop offering HBO if they offer HBOGO standalone are unfounded and untrue.


bionicRod
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reply to PaulHikeS2
said by PaulHikeS2:

said by bionicRod:

said by wesm:

Again, it's just TV so I'll wait until Netflix or somebody here gets it.

The difference being that Netflix (edit: streaming) will never, ever get Game of Thrones. You have to shell out for a top tier cable subscription every month just to watch it legally, there is no other option. Piracy will continue on this scale because of that.

Not true. Buy the DVDs. Rent the DVDs. Borrow DVDs from library. All are legal, and while abailability of the last two may vary, in this country everyone can buy the DVDs.

Season 3 is out on DVD? No. And if the past two years is any indication, it won't be until early 2014. Until then the only options are an HBO subscription (and all the other channels you have to buy before you can get that) and piracy. Netflix Streaming will never get GoT.
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El Quintron
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reply to markofmayhem
said by markofmayhem:

There is certainly an argument that the premium for earlier viewership is extreme, but this is not a case where it is "not available" or locked down to alternative legal consumption.

Having to wait for it to be released on DVD/BluRay is not in line with what consumers want, that being said, HBOs main income stream isn't from cable subs, it's from being bundled with other channels which is why they mainly look the other way when it comes to piracy.
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88615298
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reply to PaulHikeS2
said by PaulHikeS2:

Not true. Buy the DVDs. Rent the DVDs. Borrow DVDs from library. All are legal, and while abailability of the last two may vary, in this country everyone can buy the DVDs.

Oh can I get the DVDs now? Nope. Heck you can't even download episodes at places like Amazon day after air like just about every other series not on HBO. Season 3 won't be available until around February. Long after everyone has torrented it. That right there would cut down on a a lot of piracy. Though I do have an issue about paying $4 per episode. Heck I have an issue with regular shows being $3 per episode.


PaulHikeS2

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1 edit
reply to bionicRod
said by bionicRod:

Season 3 is out on DVD? No. And if the past two years is any indication, it won't be until early 2014. Until then the only options are an HBO subscription (and all the other channels you have to buy before you can get that) and piracy. Netflix Streaming will never get GoT.

Of course it's not out yet. What, you need it today?

I guess you also have the same issue with every single movie that comes out for theatrical release. Until it comes out on DVD/streaming services (which happen around the same time), you're choices are paying to see the movie or piracy.

(edit - changed text as a later post stated that you do not condone piracy - sorry!)

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markofmayhem
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reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

said by markofmayhem:

There is certainly an argument that the premium for earlier viewership is extreme, but this is not a case where it is "not available" or locked down to alternative legal consumption.

Having to wait for it to be released on DVD/BluRay is not in line with what consumers want

I'm not so sure that path is correct either:

said by link :

5.4 million viewers tuned in to "Mhysa" to witness the fallout from last week's much-buzzed-about "Red Wedding" episode. That falls just short of the season's peak viewership: The 5.5 million viewers who tuned in for episode six, "The Climb."

The fantasy saga has shown steady and impressive ratings growth through its first three seasons. Season 3 averaged 5.16 million viewers for first run episodes, up from Season 2's average of 3.8 million viewers and Season 1's 2.52 million viewers.

HBO also reported a average audience of 13.6 million viewers for "Game of Thrones" Season 3 over all network airings, on demand, HBO Go and DVR, an increase of two million viewers from Season 2.

Piracy isn't high enough for the financial-loss monster to be a motivator. The movement is growing and WILL eventually take a foothold to liberate availability of entertainment past the current pay models, but Game of Thrones Season 3 is not it...
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bionicRod
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2 edits
reply to PaulHikeS2
said by PaulHikeS2:

said by bionicRod:

Season 3 is out on DVD? No. And if the past two years is any indication, it won't be until early 2014. Until then the only options are an HBO subscription (and all the other channels you have to buy before you can get that) and piracy. Netflix Streaming will never get GoT.

Of course it's not out yet. What, you need it today?

I guess you also have the same issue with every single movie that comes out for theatrical release. Until it comes out on DVD/streaming services (which happen around the same time), you're choices are paying to see the movie or piracy.

While the system has some limitations, your answer speaks more to your character.

FWIW, I am all over these boards denouncing piracy every chance I get (check out my first post in this thread). I have an HBO subscription and have bought the blu ray sets of both seasons of GoT, and have pre-ordered Season 3. I am merely pointing out that HBO's severe locking down of their content and lack of legal means to consume it encourages piracy. It's common sense.

(edit - removing text to play nice)
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bionicRod
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reply to PaulHikeS2
said by PaulHikeS2:

said by bionicRod:

Season 3 is out on DVD? No. And if the past two years is any indication, it won't be until early 2014. Until then the only options are an HBO subscription (and all the other channels you have to buy before you can get that) and piracy. Netflix Streaming will never get GoT.

Of course it's not out yet. What, you need it today?

I guess you also have the same issue with every single movie that comes out for theatrical release. Until it comes out on DVD/streaming services (which happen around the same time), you're choices are paying to see the movie or piracy.

(edit - changed text as a later post stated that you do not condone piracy - sorry!)

Earlier posts stated it too, but thanks . But piracy in movies and other tv shows happen, sure, and no I don't condone that either. The reason HBO continues to top these most pirated lists is the level of control they exert over their content. Movies don't generally have to wait almost a year after theatrical release to be released for rental, and some tv episodes are available on Netflix or other streaming methods very soon after they have aired. The result is lower piracy rates than, say, Game of Thrones, which gets a LOT of attention but lacks methods of legal viewing for very long periods of time. Again, piracy is bad, but if it's easier to pirate than to view legally, piracy rates are going to rise because of it. If HBO wants to curb piracy (and it has been suggested by others in this thread that piracy is less expensive than other options for HBO) they need to change their business model and ease restrictions on content. If not, that's their business, but these piracy rates shouldn't come as a surprise.
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El Quintron
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reply to markofmayhem
said by markofmayhem:

Piracy isn't high enough for the financial-loss monster to be a motivator.

I've stated as much before, HBOs current cash flow isn't from subs, and it explains how they can hold on to the legacy tv model for now.
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RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
reply to wesm
said by wesm:

Fortunately, Continuum is still picked up by Syfy.

With only a 5 week embargo/delay. While a delay as opposed to running a show as it airs in its original network is nice, a slight delay is betting than holding a show back until it has finished airing. IOW: A 5 week delay is better than them running a year old (and already canceled) show like Primeval: New World.

My opinion on the "Piracy" issue tends to be it is not stealing to BT something that the provider is unwilling to provide to you which you are willing to buy. So long as HBO is unwilling to HBOGO sell me GoT (or some other of their series) they have no lo$$ if I BitTorrent the episodes (which I do not since I am not interested in that show). You can/should not claim a lost sale on something you are unwilling to sell.

Do not claim that an eventual sale of a show on DVD/BluRay next year counts as an offer to sell me the show. They are different items. The disks are an archived copy of the show to allow viewing it after it has ended its season run. HBOGO represents giving access to the episodes AS THEY AIR. BTW: Most DVD/BR sets get released just after the last episode of a season airs or a month or 2 after that point.


bionicRod
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said by RARPSL:

My opinion on the "Piracy" issue tends to be it is not stealing to BT something that the provider is unwilling to provide to you which you are willing to buy. So long as HBO is unwilling to HBOGO sell me GoT (or some other of their series) they have no lo$$ if I BitTorrent the episodes (which I do not since I am not interested in that show). You can/should not claim a lost sale on something you are unwilling to sell.

But they ARE willing to sell it to you (if you liked GoT, which I understand you do not). You can sign up and pay for HBO right now and watch Game of Thrones to your heart's content on HBO GO, along with everything else that service provides. You just don't like the terms. Don't confuse that as refusal to sell. They're selling; you're refusing to buy.

I am very in the middle on this argument. HBO's policies are encouraging piracy, but piracy is still wrong IMO.
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88615298
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said by bionicRod:

But they ARE willing to sell it to you (if you liked GoT, which I understand you do not). You can sign up and pay for HBO right now and watch Game of Thrones to your heart's content on HBO GO, along with everything else that service provides. You just don't like the terms. Don't confuse that as refusal to sell. They're selling; you're refusing to buy.

I am very in the middle on this argument. HBO's policies are encouraging piracy, but piracy is still wrong IMO.

The big issue is that getting HBO which is only $15 dollars also requires a pay TV package which is in excess of $60 a month or more. Essentially making HBO closer to $75 or more which you have to admit it a bit price gougey.


bionicRod
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said by 88615298:

said by bionicRod:

But they ARE willing to sell it to you (if you liked GoT, which I understand you do not). You can sign up and pay for HBO right now and watch Game of Thrones to your heart's content on HBO GO, along with everything else that service provides. You just don't like the terms. Don't confuse that as refusal to sell. They're selling; you're refusing to buy.

I am very in the middle on this argument. HBO's policies are encouraging piracy, but piracy is still wrong IMO.

The big issue is that getting HBO which is only $15 dollars also requires a pay TV package which is in excess of $60 a month or more. Essentially making HBO closer to $75 or more which you have to admit it a bit price gougey.

Oh yeah that's what I have been saying. It's a piracy inducing model. But to say "It's not for sale so I must pirate" is a tad disingenuous.
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88615298
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said by bionicRod:

Oh yeah that's what I have been saying. It's a piracy inducing model. But to say "It's not for sale so I must pirate" is a tad disingenuous.

I don't agree with that either. But you also need to live in reality. look at prohibition. Sure the idea that we'd have a society where people wouldn't feel the need to get drunk sounds great. FORCING that on everyone didn't work out the way they planned. So eventually even the most staunchest prohibitionist admitted they needed to let people legally drink.

In a perfect world people wouldn't pirate if they couldn't get access to their content. In the REAL world that doesn't happen and to think if you only just allow people to access content one way legally that people will take that route, is just fantasy. Companies like HBO are like prohibitionists 6 years into prohibition when it was CLEAR to everyone else it wasn't working and in fact making things worse and they just kept saying "It'll work give it time".

As I said I make a HUGE distinction between the "I want everything for free" pirate. And the person that says "Hey HBO I'm willing to give you the SAME $15 if you would just take my money."


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reply to bionicRod
Here is where i stand on the issue, would i pay 10-15 month for HBO, yes. Can I no? Up here in Canada I have to shell out over $100 a month just to get to HBO which is bundled with the movie channels at some 20 or more a month.

Now I can buy it from iTunes , at $3.50/episode, and that's $35 bucks for ONE SERIES!!!!, but not in Canada.

So what's my choice? Go without, wait till the BR shows up next Winter? After the shows have been dissected, blogged analysed and speculation over S4 starts?
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