 digitalfuturSees More Than ShownPremium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2 | reply to jaberi
Re: SARS doctor Donald Low's posthumous plea for assisted suicid Since the primary justification for active euthanasia (assisted suicide) has been to end "pain and suffering", the fact that Dr. Low died not in pain (as indicated at the end of the video), makes that reason illogical in this case.
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digitalfuturSees More Than ShownPremium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2 | reply to Gone
Re: Dying in a 'free and informed manner' Provincial administration of justice is trumped by the Criminal Code, which what this law will violate as soon as the first doctor is prosecuted under the Code's provisions for assisted suicide.
From that point on, no doctor will risk being charged until the Criminal Code is changed.
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Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke. |
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 DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2 | reply to digitalfutur
Re: SARS doctor Donald Low's posthumous plea for assisted suicid said by digitalfutur:Since the primary justification for active euthanasia (assisted suicide) has been to end "pain and suffering", the fact that Dr. Low died not in pain (as indicated at the end of the video), makes that reason illogical in this case.
Some are suggesting the Low, in spite of his high regard as a microbiologist, made comments which were completely inappropriate for the reason you offer. Basically, he was angry because he could not have his choice.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2 | reply to jaberi
said by jaberi:i have no doubt that dr. low could have found himself a cocktail if he wanted out via euthanasia, so what held him back?...... he made a video and shared his views hoping the politicos would take note and give the dying an assisted "dying with dignity option"
It has been suggested that Low was not addressing politicians but speaking to his peers and colleagues.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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| reply to jaberi
Re: Dying in a 'free and informed manner' I'd support such an initiative if it had a few conditions.
• There must be a waiver signed releasing the physician.
• Must be on compassionate grounds.
• Must be of free will, without acute depression being a trigger.
• Must not be coerced.
• Must be independently witnessed by someone who must discuss the permanent nature of such a waiver.
• Will and testament must be complete of before such a waiver is to be signed.
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DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2 | said by I_H8_Spam:I'd support such an initiative if it had a few conditions.
I'd prefer to see competent palliative care offered by the medical profession in Canada.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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 GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
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| reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:Provincial administration of justice is trumped by the Criminal Code, which what this law will violate as soon as the first doctor is prosecuted under the Code's provisions for assisted suicide. The point you are completely missing is that the Crown prosecutors who would be expected to prosecute these offenses offenses are appointed by the provincial attorney general and serve at the AG's pleasure. As much as we like to think the job isn't political, it is still is. There will no doubt be external pressure for them to defer to Quebec law rather than federal criminal legislation.
Knowing this, one can say that Quebec's provincial assisted suicide law is a violation of the Criminal Code until they're blue in the face. It means absolutely diddly squat for it to be against the law if the Crown refuses to prosecute.
Of course, if you find this issue so repugnant you are more than welcome to proceed with private prosecution yourself. Just hope the crown doesn't assume the prosecution themselves in the name of the public good only to drop the charges the moment the file hits their desk. |
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said by DKS:said by I_H8_Spam:I'd support such an initiative if it had a few conditions.
I'd prefer to see competent palliative care offered by the medical profession in Canada. Having seen the ravages of cancer far to many times, I agree wholeheartedly.
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GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4 Reviews:
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| said by I_H8_Spam:Having seen the ravages of cancer far to many times, I agree wholeheartedly. As horrible as cancer can be and having seen more than one family member die from pancreatic cancer, I will still say that it doesn't hold a candle to something like ALS. |
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@videotron.ca | reply to Gone
said by Gone:Knowing this, one can say that Quebec's provincial assisted suicide law is a violation of the Criminal Code until they're blue in the face. It means absolutely diddly squat for it to be against the law if the Crown refuses to prosecute.
Once again, Bang on.
At one time abortions were illegal, yet Quebec went ahead with it anyhow. Orders were, "No prosecution" by the gov. I think at the time they did one, then the crown dropped it. Never hit court again.
This is going back many decades, memory is fuzzy on this, but that is what happened.
This is no diff.
If they make it law, nothing anyone can do. Similar to when Quebec allowed abortions. |
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GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4 Reviews:
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| Exactly. The AG lays out a policy framework and the issue as to whether or not doctors will face criminal charges is pretty much dead in the water. To think otherwise is incredibly simplistic and naive.
Having said that, it's always possible that the PPSC could get involved and start laying charges without the involvement of Quebec's crown attorneys, but I don't think any federal government of any political stripe would be stupid enough to poke that nest of bees. |
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| reply to DKS
Re: SARS doctor Donald Low's posthumous plea for assisted suicid quote:
It has been suggested that Low was not addressing politicians but speaking to his peers and colleagues.
are the majority of his peers and colleagues opponents to "assisted euthanasia"
or are you saying he wants them to step it up and lobby the government who seems to be the major opponent? |
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 GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | reply to jaberi
Re: Dying in a 'free and informed manner' BC has ruled that the criminal code's prohibition on doctor-assisted suicide is unconstitutional, and that case is going to the supreme court, so the point might become even more moot if the criminal code itself gets that provision struck down.
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DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2 | reply to jaberi
Re: SARS doctor Donald Low's posthumous plea for assisted suicid said by jaberi: quote:
It has been suggested that Low was not addressing politicians but speaking to his peers and colleagues.
are the majority of his peers and colleagues opponents to "assisted euthanasia" or are you saying he wants them to step it up and lobby the government who seems to be the major opponent? My understanding is that the medical system is deeply divided on this issue.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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| reply to digitalfutur
Re: Dying in a 'free and informed manner' said by digitalfutur:Provincial administration of justice is trumped by the Criminal Code, which what this law will violate as soon as the first doctor is prosecuted under the Code's provisions for assisted suicide.
From that point on, no doctor will risk being charged until the Criminal Code is changed.
As I've already posted on page 1 of this very thread section 222 of the Criminal Code (Homicide) would NOT apply to such a case, as the act wouldn't be unlawful. That's the whole point of the Bill, to make it lawful for doctors to cause a patient to die as long as the conditions set out in the law are respected.
Please tell me, what section of the Criminal Code do you think could be used to charge these doctors? Section 222 doesn't apply. |
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GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4 Reviews:
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| reply to DKS
Re: SARS doctor Donald Low's posthumous plea for assisted suicid said by DKS:My understanding is that the medical system is deeply divided on this issue. Deeply divided being the understatement of the year. |
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GonePremium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4 Reviews:
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| reply to IamGimli
Re: Dying in a 'free and informed manner' said by IamGimli:As I've already posted on page 1 of this very thread section 222 of the Criminal Code (Homicide) would NOT apply to such a case, as the act wouldn't be unlawful. That's the whole point of the Bill, to make it lawful for doctors to cause a patient to die as long as the conditions set out in the law are respected.
Please tell me, what section of the Criminal Code do you think could be used to charge these doctors? Section 222 doesn't apply. Even if one argues that the Criminal Code still applies (and no doubt, people will argue that), the entire point is moot if prosecutors in Quebec simply refuse to lay any charges the same way prosecutors in Ontario generally do not to proceed with charges for simple marijuana possession. |
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| reply to DKS
Re: SARS doctor Donald Low's posthumous plea for assisted suicid quote:
My understanding is that the medical system is deeply divided on this issue.
ah ok....much like the moral issues of abortion if we can even compare it to that. |
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| reply to jaberi
Re: Dying in a 'free and informed manner' A response to Dr. Low's plea in the National Post
»life.nationalpost.com/2013/09/26···gnified/
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"The hardest thing about any political campaign is how to win without proving that you are unworthy of winning." ~ Adlai E. Stevenson |
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GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:20 | reply to jaberi
The author of the article, despite his implication, would not qualify for doctor-assisted suicide under bill 52, as he was not suffering from a terminal condition...
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| reply to BigSensFan
Quebec Ombudsperson Supports End-of-Life Care Bill, Offers Recommendations
»www.slaw.ca/2013/09/26/quebec-om···dations/
Both doctors and people have a choice. |
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| reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:The author of the article, despite his implication, would not qualify for doctor-assisted suicide under bill 52, as he was not suffering from a terminal condition... True but he does know what it is like to live in excruciating pain.. part of the point Low was making was that people should be able to choose because they may be going through that type of pain
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DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2 | said by BigSensFan:True but he does know what it is like to live in excruciating pain.. part of the point Low was making was that people should be able to choose because they may be going through that type of pain
Failure to manage pain in a terminal situation is simply bad medical practice. Medicine has the tools to manage pain, but physicians aren't properly trained to use them or are simply ignorant.
In the last month I have been with a person with terminal cancer, who had superb pain management. I have some idea of the drugs which were used. All brought comfort and took away pain. The person died, but it was, if I can say it, "a good death". The person had chosen to discontinue chemotherapy and knew the outcome of their decision. I participated in that decision-making process. They did not, however, have any desire to take their own life, assisted or unassisted. They made it clear to their doctor that they expected full and complete pain management up to death. And the person received that care from their physician.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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| said by DKS: had chosen to discontinue chemotherapy and knew the outcome of their decision. I participated in that decision-making process. They did not, however, have any desire to take t I think part of the issue is also seen in the fact that medical technology has been able to extend the lives of the people with terminal diseases. They get the extra 6 months to a year that they may have not got in previous generations. You have to ask though, is the quality of life a good one.
I know suicide is not an option for me (assisted or otherwise) due to the value I place on life and natural death. What I may consider if in a terminal situation, is the stopping of life prolonging treatment, and stick only to a pain management regimen.
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"The hardest thing about any political campaign is how to win without proving that you are unworthy of winning." ~ Adlai E. Stevenson |
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| dr low would be happy, he did succeed opening up a debate about assisted suicide, ottawa is now willing to talk about it, but will not legalize....
aha, they said the same about medicinal pot, and soon after changed their mind. |
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