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Gordo74
Premium
join:2003-10-28
Monroeville, PA

Help with blanketing outdoor cabin grounds with Wifi!

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Hi All,

Recently, Verizon has put up a tower with LTE near our cabin where there has been no other way to get broadband internet access. Because of this, my work has agreed to supply me with an aircard for when I work remotely from there. The question becomes HOW do I get wifi to blanket the area? I am going to stick with Wireless G for simplicity and compatibility sake, but I am open to suggestions.

I have made a crude (paint) image of the setup off the road with a basic scale as to the distance (blue).

»i.imgur.com/JHrpxRR.jpg (also attached here)

The red boxes are the current structures on the property. #1 and #2 are houses - both built in the 1920's but are a wood frame with a wood outside and no brick, which should help here. The router would be in house #1 and would have detachable antenna. House #1 also has a "mast" on the second story roof which we can attach antennas to and has coax run from the mast to the inside of the house (we used to use it for an analog antenna for TV, but since the digital switchover, we cannot get any channels). #3 is a recently built 60'x40' garage made out of metal. I wouldn't bet on getting Wifi strong in here, but it is in the "blanket zone". House #4 is a two room cabin built back in the woods. It is probably about 100' above house #1 and #2, which is why it is a long shot. It is probably about a half a mile through the woods to that cabin as the crow flies. It's a pipe dream to get wifi up there, but hey, I know nothing about this and that's why I am making this post.

As far as the colored circles go: GREEN is where I would put as HIGH priority. This is at least where, once I plug in my aircard, I would like to be able to connect to wifi with my laptop and have no problems getting enough throughput for a normal res youtube video (bandwidth on the aircard permitting). ORANGE is where it would be "nice to have" but not required. PURPLE is a complete pipe-dream. These is plenty of topography that would affect the signal throughout the purple zone, whereas the green zone is pretty flat and open. As you can see, the green zone is mostly fields with just a smidge into the woods.

So, that's my dilemma. I have about $200-$250 to put into this setup. I figured I would use a cradlepoint router such as this: »www.amazon.com/Cradlepoint-CTR35···&sr=1-22

and then just turn off the Wifi and connect it to an actual router with detachable antennae such as the WRT54G and go from there.

So... I'm open to any suggestions. I have seem TONS of directional/omnidirectional amplified/nonamplified internal/external antennas and I am looking for some guidance!

H_T_R_N
Premium
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA
kudos:1
»www.open-mesh.com/
I have a few Campgrounds setup with this setup. Easy as pie to configure too.


Gordo74
Premium
join:2003-10-28
Monroeville, PA
reply to Gordo74
Very interesting concept, that open mesh... so these basically get power from either the ethernet with power running through them or a power brick.

How much coverage would I get with one mounted on, say, a tree in the middle of an open field? Are these omnidirectional?

I assume I'd be limited to 300 ft from the original router due to ethernet spec, is that right? Or wait... could I piggy back them off of each other? How would I get power in piggybacking them say, between 2 trees in a field?

H_T_R_N
Premium
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA
kudos:1
getting power to them is the hard part. I was lucky that I had power everywhere I needed. They are omni the 200 feet would be a breeze for these guys. Getting purple covered will be hard with all the trees.


Gordo74
Premium
join:2003-10-28
Monroeville, PA
reply to Gordo74
Interesting. So if, possibly, I got an access point to the middle of the two houses and ran ethernet with power to it, do you think I would hit the entire green area?

My idea is to use a normal router in House 1, then connect 2 ethernet cords and run one to a router in the other house and then connect 1 to one of these open mesh things and mount it on the telephone pole in the middle of the two houses on the long driveway.

Do you think that would satiate the green area?

H_T_R_N
Premium
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·voip.ms
said by Gordo74:

Interesting. So if, possibly, I got an access point to the middle of the two houses and ran ethernet with power to it, do you think I would hit the entire green area?

My idea is to use a normal router in House 1, then connect 2 ethernet cords and run one to a router in the other house and then connect 1 to one of these open mesh things and mount it on the telephone pole in the middle of the two houses on the long driveway.

Do you think that would satiate the green area?

Without a measurement and knowing the growth, its a guess. The thing with the devices I mentioned is that they are designed to (easily) create a mesh network, and while they can work as just an AP there are better options if that is all you need. Keep in mind that even if you can flood teh area with WiFi, if the device you are holding in your hand is not powerful enough to get its signal back to the AP, it isn't going to matter.
--
Hey retard, a Low Frequency Effects Channel is a subwoofer.

Guess who?


Gordo74
Premium
join:2003-10-28
Monroeville, PA
said by H_T_R_N:

said by Gordo74:

Interesting. So if, possibly, I got an access point to the middle of the two houses and ran ethernet with power to it, do you think I would hit the entire green area?

My idea is to use a normal router in House 1, then connect 2 ethernet cords and run one to a router in the other house and then connect 1 to one of these open mesh things and mount it on the telephone pole in the middle of the two houses on the long driveway.

Do you think that would satiate the green area?

Without a measurement and knowing the growth, its a guess. The thing with the devices I mentioned is that they are designed to (easily) create a mesh network, and while they can work as just an AP there are better options if that is all you need. Keep in mind that even if you can flood teh area with WiFi, if the device you are holding in your hand is not powerful enough to get its signal back to the AP, it isn't going to matter.

I thought the ethernet running to the Open Mesh device on the telephone pole would both power and provide the back-link to the router and therefore a fresh data stream to broadcast, is that incorrect?

H_T_R_N
Premium
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·voip.ms
said by Gordo74:

said by H_T_R_N:

said by Gordo74:

Interesting. So if, possibly, I got an access point to the middle of the two houses and ran ethernet with power to it, do you think I would hit the entire green area?

My idea is to use a normal router in House 1, then connect 2 ethernet cords and run one to a router in the other house and then connect 1 to one of these open mesh things and mount it on the telephone pole in the middle of the two houses on the long driveway.

Do you think that would satiate the green area?

Without a measurement and knowing the growth, its a guess. The thing with the devices I mentioned is that they are designed to (easily) create a mesh network, and while they can work as just an AP there are better options if that is all you need. Keep in mind that even if you can flood teh area with WiFi, if the device you are holding in your hand is not powerful enough to get its signal back to the AP, it isn't going to matter.

I thought the ethernet running to the Open Mesh device on the telephone pole would both power and provide the back-link to the router and therefore a fresh data stream to broadcast, is that incorrect?

Yes and no. The ethernet cable will provide power to the OM device on the pole, but unless you are using another OM device in the house as the main router, the one on the pole will have nothing to redistribute. That is why I said that there are better APs out there. If you are going to use a standard router in the houses you would be better using ones that supports WDS and bridging. see: »www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless···rt-1-wds
--
Hey retard, a Low Frequency Effects Channel is a subwoofer.

Guess who?


Gordo74
Premium
join:2003-10-28
Monroeville, PA
reply to Gordo74
So... you're telling me that the ethernet provides ONLY power and NOT data to the AP to broadcast? I thought that was the whole point of power over ethernet? That it provides data and power at the same time.

H_T_R_N
Premium
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·voip.ms
said by Gordo74:

So... you're telling me that the ethernet provides ONLY power and NOT data to the AP to broadcast? I thought that was the whole point of power over ethernet? That it provides data and power at the same time.

Again, you CAN use the devices from open-mesh.com as APs but there are better devices out there like the oferings from: »www.ubnt.com/ and the like. The Open-mesh device make for a nice method to distribute a wireless network when you can not get data to it but can provide power.
--
Hey retard, a Low Frequency Effects Channel is a subwoofer.

Guess who?


Gordo74
Premium
join:2003-10-28
Monroeville, PA
said by H_T_R_N:

said by Gordo74:

So... you're telling me that the ethernet provides ONLY power and NOT data to the AP to broadcast? I thought that was the whole point of power over ethernet? That it provides data and power at the same time.

Again, you CAN use the devices from open-mesh.com as APs but there are better devices out there like the oferings from: »www.ubnt.com/ and the like. The Open-mesh device make for a nice method to distribute a wireless network when you can not get data to it but can provide power.

Interesting. How was the range on these with line of sight?

Based on this, could I put a normal wifi router inside, then mount one of their omnidirectional APs on house #1 above and possibly get service in the green area? (Maybe requiring another one in the other house)


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
The UBNT Loco radio will do 4 km...

H_T_R_N
Premium
join:2011-12-06
Valencia, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Gordo74
said by Gordo74:

said by H_T_R_N:

said by Gordo74:

So... you're telling me that the ethernet provides ONLY power and NOT data to the AP to broadcast? I thought that was the whole point of power over ethernet? That it provides data and power at the same time.

Again, you CAN use the devices from open-mesh.com as APs but there are better devices out there like the oferings from: »www.ubnt.com/ and the like. The Open-mesh device make for a nice method to distribute a wireless network when you can not get data to it but can provide power.

Interesting. How was the range on these with line of sight?

Based on this, could I put a normal wifi router inside, then mount one of their omnidirectional APs on house #1 above and possibly get service in the green area? (Maybe requiring another one in the other house)

Yes but please keep in mind that the range on the AP is meaningless if the device connecting to it only has a range of 300 feet or so. The device might receive a signal beyond 300 feet but it will not be able to send.
--
Hey retard, a Low Frequency Effects Channel is a subwoofer.

Guess who?


Gordo74
Premium
join:2003-10-28
Monroeville, PA
reply to Gordo74
This is an interesting development indeed... so in doing a bit of research, it seems that this:

»www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Nanostat···sim_pc_3

Would work well for at least the green area. One reviewer notes that "the spectrum spread on these is like a fat slice of Mom's pie, 60 degrees vertical and horizontal".

So for me to get the green area, I would have to buy at least 2 and mount them to the mast on house 1? (One pointed at house 2 and garage 3 and one pointed out into the yard - such as up the draveway)

Or would I be better served putting maybe 1 on the mast on house 1, then run ethernet to garage (3) and mount one there, and then run ethernet from 1 to 2 and mount one outside there as well? Would that work better than keeping all in 1?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to gain an understanding


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
reply to Gordo74
You can also use one of these:

»www.amazon.com/Engenius-Outdoor-···00VIA4CA

and one of these:

»www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-BULLET-M···02SYS22E

You'll need one of these:

»www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-POE-15-P···02R7JPGE

Mount it so you can get under the tree foliage, say about 8-10 feet to the middle of the antenna.
--
Many believe, but few will question...I decline to be blind.



Gordo74
Premium
join:2003-10-28
Monroeville, PA
Wouldn't this do the same thing as those 3?

»www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-PicoStat···ostation


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8
You need more antenna gain than that device has. Antenna gain is what allows the weaker client devices to be heard.