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Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
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Earth Orbit
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1 recommendation

More evidence you don't need PCIe 3.0

Or rather, why PCIe 2.0 works just fine, even with Titan SLI (or why SLI/CF on Z77/Z87 is just fine).

»www.anandtech.com/show/7089/gefo···s-pcie-3
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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


BonezX
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operating overhead.

pci-e 2.0 is "good enough" but pci-e 3.0 gives room to grow.


Krisnatharok
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Who's going to surpass the power of two Titans in the next 3-5 years?

And by how much?

This is more of a "just saying" post than trying to advocate a specific course of action--there have been a couple people post recently wanting to upgrade from their i7-965s or i7-990X's because they feel they are "old" or want PCIe 3.0 for newer GPUs.
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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


BonezX
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1 edit
if your taxing out a bus at near 100% that's not efficient.

also with a larger bus you can reduce latencies with the overhead as well.

as for titans, that's one titan PER 16x pci-e connector, if you stick them into 8x connectors you would see the bottleneck much easier. being a PCI-e 3.0 8x has roughly the same bandwidth as a 2.0 16x.

if they really wanted to show the difference, they could have easily tweaked the ports and done a single card, pci-e 2.0 8x vs pci-e 3.0 4x, it would show them at roughly the same speed.

how easily people forget that at one point, people thought that the home user didn't need more then 200mb of hard-drive space.


Krisnatharok
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said by BonezX:

as for titans, that's one titan PER 16x pci-e connector, if you stick them into 8x connectors you would see the bottleneck much easier. being a PCI-e 3.0 8x has roughly the same bandwidth as a 2.0 16x....

I was referencing x58, which is perfectly capable of driving two cards on PCIe 2.0 at x16/x16.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


BonezX
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said by Krisnatharok:

said by BonezX:

as for titans, that's one titan PER 16x pci-e connector, if you stick them into 8x connectors you would see the bottleneck much easier. being a PCI-e 3.0 8x has roughly the same bandwidth as a 2.0 16x....

I was referencing x58, which is perfectly capable of driving two cards on PCIe 2.0 at x16/x16.

if computers stopped at good enough, we wouldn't have PCI-e replacing AGP.


Blockfire
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said by BonezX:

said by Krisnatharok:

said by BonezX:

as for titans, that's one titan PER 16x pci-e connector, if you stick them into 8x connectors you would see the bottleneck much easier. being a PCI-e 3.0 8x has roughly the same bandwidth as a 2.0 16x....

I was referencing x58, which is perfectly capable of driving two cards on PCIe 2.0 at x16/x16.

if computers stopped at good enough, we wouldn't have PCI-e replacing AGP.

WHAT?!!?!?


Krisnatharok
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reply to BonezX
said by BonezX:

if computers stopped at good enough, we wouldn't have PCI-e replacing AGP.

Reductio ad absurdum.
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BonezX
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PCI-e is a huge bus, we know that already, but if you can easily future-proof it at no real increase in cost, why not do it ?

absurdity is not even part of it, tech advances, faster in some places then others, get used to it.

if your referencing Intel changing sockets all the time, that's how the company does things, they won't support a socket any longer then they absolutely have to.


Krisnatharok
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You're completely missing the point. The point is that the high-end, first gen i7 chips are completely sufficient for today's games, and won't even significantly throttle the most expensive cards in SLI.

There were a couple people who were questioning if they needed to replace their $1000 CPUs from 5 years ago with Haswell or Ivy Bridge. The answer--especially for gaming--is most definitely no. There is a lot of life left in such platforms and they can still get more use out of the money they have already committed.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to Krisnatharok
Isn't pcie 4.0 supposed to be finalized in the next couple years? Kinda makes me wonder if pcie 3.0 will ever have the "hay day" 2.0 did/is having. Although I guess I can't complain about my 2500k and pcie 2.0 looking like it will in fact last long enough for me to wait out skylake-E or whatever comes after that -E, whichever implements pcie 4.0 first.

This is very cool, thanks for sharing.


BonezX
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reply to Krisnatharok
upgrade cycles have been getting longer for a while now, regardless of upgraded busses or sockets or updates. it doesnt de-legitimize pci-e 3.0 for people building a new system.


Krisnatharok
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1 recommendation

said by BonezX:

it doesnt de-legitimize pci-e 3.0 for people building a new system.

lol, man. You're still missing the point. This has nothing to do with people building new systems. This has everything to do with determining when they need to build them, or which components they should upgrade first.

Look, I've got nothing against PCIe 3.0, and only posted this for the benefit of those on x58 who think they are missing something significant in terms of bandwidth for their GPUs. They're not.
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BonezX
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people that have it in their mind that they need to upgrade, are going to do it regardless.


Cthen
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Detroit, MI

1 edit
reply to Krisnatharok
said by Krisnatharok:

said by BonezX:

it doesnt de-legitimize pci-e 3.0 for people building a new system.

lol, man. You're still missing the point. This has nothing to do with people building new systems. This has everything to do with determining when they need to build them, or which components they should upgrade first.

Look, I've got nothing against PCIe 3.0, and only posted this for the benefit of those on x58 who think they are missing something significant in terms of bandwidth for their GPUs. They're not.

What I find usually is people will post things like this to make themselves feel better about not having new standard. Kinda like all the people who argued that there was no reason to move to PCI-E as AGP still had enough to handle things.

Really there are two sides to this. Sure no one maybe missing out now but, when a new hardware standard is released, software/game develepers will take advantage of it later (even with updates to their software released prior). They won't develop anything (or update) for that new standard until hardware developers get it onto the market.
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The WeaseL
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join:2001-12-03
Minnesota
reply to Krisnatharok
Good post Kris.

I think the push to 3.0 and 4.0 currently will have more benefits in the server/enterprise market, but eventually consumers will have needs when devices come out to take advantage.
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Octavean
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reply to Krisnatharok
Indeed, good post Kris.

In a lot of ways I think this is what people expected. I personally wasn't concerned much about proper or consistent PCIe 3.0 support on my Core i7 3930K / Asus P9X79 Deluxe based system because I didn't think it really mattered much,.....I still don't.



Krisnatharok
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reply to Cthen
said by Cthen:

What I find usually is people will post things like this to make themselves feel better about not having new standard. Kinda like all the people who argued that there was no reason to move to PCI-E as AGP still had enough to handle things.

Really there are two sides to this. Sure no one maybe missing out now but, when a new hardware standard is released, software/game develepers will take advantage of it later (even with updates to their software released prior). They won't develop anything (or update) for that new standard until hardware developers get it onto the market.

I would counter that you are misconstruing the proposition I am putting forward--that at the current time, even with two of the fastest consumer/gaming single GPUs in existence, that the difference between PCIe 2.0 and 3.0 is so negligible that it, in and of itself, should not be a reason to upgrade.

Now, if you imminently plan a triple Titan build, I would suggest upgrading. Everyone else might as well hold on to what they have, or upgrade if they have other valid reasons for doing so.

But x58 owners should not, under any circumstances, believe that their PCIe bandwidth is the limiting factor. (CPU speed certainly might, if they cannot OC to 3.8 - 4.0 GHz, as they might lag in single-threaded tasks commonly found in games).
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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


Dream Killer
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You indirectly proved your point here. When I got my X58 system I didn't need to upgrade from a Core2Quad. I did the same thing as you did, look at benchmark of current games and they were the same FPS between both CPUs.

Now because my i7 had room to grow, I still don't need to upgrade and it's still relevant while the Core2Quad has become all but extinct in modern gaming machines.

That is the same with PCIe 3.0. Just because no video card can take advantage of it fully, doesn't mean you should deter one from getting it. Sure Titan is a fast card (for now), but when the next faster card comes along and the bandwidth needed to run it exceeds 2.0's capabilities, that person is going to wish they had gotten the motherboard with PCIe 3.0 on it.


El Quintron
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said by Dream Killer:

You indirectly proved your point here. When I got my X58 system I didn't need to upgrade from a Core2Quad.

Agreed, but an upgrade to Sandy or Ivy from your Core2Quad would have been right on target. I think all that's being said here is that X58 can weather till Ivy-E or later.

I went from a Core2Quad to Ivy, and I'm convinced it was the right time to upgrade.
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Dream Killer
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reply to Krisnatharok
The jump from a C2Q to an i7 920 was very big in terms of Photoshop and RAM performance/capacity. It was a program I used often back then so I got it.

If someone decides to wait, it's just a matter of when to jump in because stuff always gets better no matter how stagnant the present looks. Besides Sandy wasn't even on the map yet when I got the i7 920 on the week it was released.


Subaru
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reply to BonezX
said by BonezX:

said by Krisnatharok:

said by BonezX:

as for titans, that's one titan PER 16x pci-e connector, if you stick them into 8x connectors you would see the bottleneck much easier. being a PCI-e 3.0 8x has roughly the same bandwidth as a 2.0 16x....

I was referencing x58, which is perfectly capable of driving two cards on PCIe 2.0 at x16/x16.

if computers stopped at good enough, we wouldn't have PCI-e replacing AGP.

Or... PCI video cards :-|
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