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vsavulian
Premium Member
join:2002-11-26
ON

vsavulian

Premium Member

Third party DSL login for failover

Do any of the Bell DSL wholesalers still offer DSL logins?

I'd be interested in one strictly as a failover when the current ISP experiences routing issues.

infamouskid
join:2007-01-24
White Rock, BC

infamouskid

Member

me too
lawrenson
join:2012-02-22

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Not likely.

With capacity based billing the ISP would be paying for your usage. If any ISPs do offer it, I wouldn't expect them to be cheap like they used to be.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

It would be interesting if they could offer a login with a fixed amount of usage included, ie 50gb for a one time fee, not a monthly. So you only use it as you need it for backup, and can "refill" the usage on it.
Madwand
join:2002-12-03
Toronto, ON

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I may be interested in selling my unlimited account. About to cancel it anyways.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

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Why would anybody buy your connection when they could get a second one of their own for the same price?

Mike2009
join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
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said by HiVolt:

It would be interesting if they could offer a login with a fixed amount of usage included, ie 50gb for a one time fee, not a monthly. So you only use it as you need it for backup, and can "refill" the usage on it.

Great idea!
Cloneman
join:2002-08-29
Montreal

Cloneman

Member

said by Mike2009:

Great idea!

Ideally they should waive their right to telephone technical support, though. I wouldn't want to deal with this as an ISP. It is a good idea though, it's also a good promotional tool because if your original ISP is down too often you'll just switch.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

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to vsavulian
said by vsavulian:

Do any of the Bell DSL wholesalers still offer DSL logins?

I'd be interested in one strictly as a failover when the current ISP experiences routing issues.

I don't believe anyone offers it any longer - Bell wasn't happy about ISP's doing this on their wholesale product.

Mike2009
join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON

Mike2009

Member

That's too bad, it would come in handy.
Madwand
join:2002-12-03
Toronto, ON

Madwand to Guspaz

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said by Guspaz:

Why would anybody buy your connection when they could get a second one of their own for the same price?

Because you can't buy one anymore Guspaz. $12 a month for unlimited backup

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to vsavulian

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to vsavulian
Oh, you mean your secondary login. I thought you meant your DSL account.

infamouskid
join:2007-01-24
White Rock, BC

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why not?
advertise it as a xdsl pppoe vpn back up login.
an exclusive for dsl customers only. hehe.
no but really this would come in handy.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt to pstewart

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to pstewart
said by pstewart:

I don't believe anyone offers it any longer - Bell wasn't happy about ISP's doing this on their wholesale product.

They weren't happy because their own customers were buying the $10 logins and avoiding Bell's then recently introduced capped plans.

But now that Bell has unlimited options, and that they bill the wholesale ISP's for capacity usage, I don't see how this would be an issue... This would be a niche product, but a few independents could offer it.

vsavulian
Premium Member
join:2002-11-26
ON

vsavulian to HiVolt

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Bang on. I'd be willing to pay say $20-30 for a 12 month/50GB login.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

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The thing I find kind of interesting in general here is that folks will pay more to have a backup login. But does your provider go down that often where it's a concern? Just asking - I'm curious...

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

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It was what, about a week ago, that we had several days of PPPoE auth issues with TekSavvy (basically everybody's connections randomly died for 5-10 minutes every hour or two), which culminated in PPPoE auth simply being down entirely for about a day.

I tethered, but a secondary login would have been useful for backup purposes.

It doesn't happen often, but when it does happen, it's really annoying. I might not pay $10/mth constantly for a login, but if I could call somebody up and spend $10 to get one for a month when an issue like that crops up, I would have done that.

Sandroid
BSD geek
Premium Member
join:2002-08-08
Anjou, QC

Sandroid

Premium Member

Honestly, if someone needs that sort of uptime at home, you may as well get a second DSL line altogether if you're gonna do it right. Failures at the link level occur far more frequently than an ISP's connectivity issue... imho.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck

Member

but it's much cheaper to get a temp DSL login. if the issue is bigger than a single ISPs RADIUS/infrastructure being down then it will likely be more widespread in the Bell network and both DSLs will be down too.

ideally a PPPoE account that doesn't expire but simply is paid up front for a block of usage (1 year expiry or something) would make sense.

however one thing with VSDL2 that i've noticed when I had some auth issues a while back is that the Sagemcom connects to some Bell login for it's maintenance/setup mode which you can setup a SSH tunnel if you know the IP since their DNS redirects everything.

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

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A secondary DSL login would offer pretty limited protection, IMO - if your ISP has a failure, you'd be good with the secondary login, but if it's loss of sync or physical problem, you're still boned.

If network connectivity is that critical, I'd think that either a cellular tether/hot-spot or low usage cable connection would be far better protection...

vsavulian
Premium Member
join:2002-11-26
ON

vsavulian

Premium Member

I already have a Rogers 45/4 unlimited circuit for bulk traffic. The DSL line is for VoIP and office VPN.

Line sync is rarely the issue at least on my circuit, however my current DSL provider tends to be iffy when it comes to routing.

An alternate DSL login would add yet another layer of redundancy to my rig.

infamouskid
join:2007-01-24
White Rock, BC

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regardless of what bell thinks. it should still be an option.
the line is leased already to the customer. what is the problem?

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

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said by vsavulian:

I already have a Rogers 45/4 unlimited circuit for bulk traffic. The DSL line is for VoIP and office VPN.

Line sync is rarely the issue at least on my circuit, however my current DSL provider tends to be iffy when it comes to routing.

An alternate DSL login would add yet another layer of redundancy to my rig.

What I don't understand is that if your ISP has "iffy routing" sometimes or as someone else responded saying they were having authentication issues with their ISP.... then why not switch to a different provider that doesn't experience those issues? To me that's a simple solution as there's no shortage of wholesale providers out there.... just sayin....

vsavulian
Premium Member
join:2002-11-26
ON

1 edit

vsavulian

Premium Member

said by pstewart:

What I don't understand is that if your ISP has "iffy routing" sometimes or as someone else responded saying they were having authentication issues with their ISP.... then why not switch to a different provider that doesn't experience those issues? To me that's a simple solution as there's no shortage of wholesale providers out there.... just sayin....

I gave a few a try. Each and every one I tried had its own issues. Some haul Ontario traffic off to Montreal before peering it off. Others haul European traffic through low end peers resulting in high latency and jitter. My current ISP, Teksavvy, experiences packet loss in the evening.

Logins would also be great to test a provider's network without having to go through new signups and the associated costs and mess.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart

Premium Member

Now that's a valid reason in my opinion (speaking personally). Let me look into the "trial login" concept with our internal folks and see if it's possible.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt to pstewart

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said by pstewart:

What I don't understand is that if your ISP has "iffy routing" sometimes or as someone else responded saying they were having authentication issues with their ISP.... then why not switch to a different provider that doesn't experience those issues? To me that's a simple solution as there's no shortage of wholesale providers out there.... just sayin....

Switching isn't an easy thing nowadays, with incumbents levying heavy installation & activation fees. switching every couple months because an ISP's network may not be what you're looking for is not feasible, not to mention the potential downtime.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart

Premium Member

There's some valid technical reasons here for the login only account but I checked with our internal folks and we can't offer it. It's more of a logistical issue than technical - sorry, I tried

I wish there was a way that we could - would be a nice way to show off our network to potential customers.

infamouskid
join:2007-01-24
White Rock, BC

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this sucks. it was available as an option before from tsi and nexicom and other indies.
and then poof... gone.

jmck
formerly 'shaded'
join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

jmck

Member

right, it used to be free money to them to sell a login, not anymore with the way they get billed from Bell (usage).
InvalidError
join:2008-02-03

InvalidError to LazMan

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to LazMan
said by LazMan:

if your ISP has a failure, you'd be good with the secondary login, but if it's loss of sync or physical problem, you're still boned.

Out of the dozen or so times where I had service disruptions on DSL, there was only one time where it was due to the phone line/DSLAM themselves. All other times were TSI-specific issues between Bell's BAS and TSI's servers/routers.

So for the types of failures I have personally witnessed, a secondary login from a different ISP would have solved my problem 90-95% of the time; the bulk of which being authentication issues.

Once the hard-line is up and working properly, it rarely fails. I recently had a Bell tech visit to setup DSL at my new address and the visit took nearly two hours - turned out the first DSLAM port he tried had an unmapped failure: only 12dB SNRM and unable to hold sync at any speed for more than a minute even with both my ST516 and Bell's own modem. One port switch later and my old ST516 is up at 8.5Mbps and 27dB SNRM; should be clear-sailing from there - at least until the next bout of authentication failures.