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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

Neverwinter: Can A Free RPG Topple Warcraft?

“Don’t get me wrong, we’d love to have the success WoW earned over years of hard work. But, our immediate goal is simple and attainable: operate a fun game people like to play and want to come back to. We make that game free so, if it is fun, there's no reason not to play and come back.”

With 1.5 million players already doing just that during the beta phase alone, it looks like the team at Neverwinter might just have found their niche. Here’s hoping.

Source: »www.redbull.com/uk/en/stories/13···warcraft
--
♬ Dragon of good fortune struggles with the trickster Fox ♬


C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ
Going by the topic title...

No. Even if the game play itself is good, a f2p by nature of bean counters is going to be forced to have as much obnoxious "pay $X for Y!" nonsense that will undoubtedly reach a point of contention or frustration among some, if not enough people to assure it never gets to within a measurable fraction of the ridiculously large user base WoW has inexplicably gained.
--
Because, f*ck Sony


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to darcilicious
Get enough free to play MMOs going, and they together might "topple" Warcraft.

I have noticed Rift servers being "full" since it went F2P.

I haven't tried Star Trek online as of yet, but I may. As it also is F2P.

I'm still enjoying Defiance, though it's not free to play as you have to buy the game to play it. It does however lack a monthly fee.

Again, get enough F2P MMO's of various types out there, and Warcraft will down.
Until Warcraft releases a new expansion,
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
said by Snakeoil:

Get enough free to play MMOs going, and they together might "topple" Warcraft.

I have noticed Rift servers being "full" since it went F2P.

I haven't tried Star Trek online as of yet, but I may. As it also is F2P.

I'm still enjoying Defiance, though it's not free to play as you have to buy the game to play it. It does however lack a monthly fee.

Again, get enough F2P MMO's of various types out there, and Warcraft will down.
Until Warcraft releases a new expansion,

If Blizzard were in top form, I'd say no. But they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly with various things, my entire guild except for three people left the game (including me) and that includes a lot of veteran players who'd put in multiple hours of the day. Most of us haven't gone to other games. We just don't play anything MMO-wise.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...


Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
reply to Snakeoil
said by Snakeoil:

Get enough free to play MMOs going, and they together might "topple" Warcraft.

I have noticed Rift servers being "full" since it went F2P.

I haven't tried Star Trek online as of yet, but I may. As it also is F2P.

I'm still enjoying Defiance, though it's not free to play as you have to buy the game to play it. It does however lack a monthly fee.

Again, get enough F2P MMO's of various types out there, and Warcraft will down.
Until Warcraft releases a new expansion,

I think Blizzard is doing a good enough job of toppling Warcraft by themselves.


captokita
Premium
join:2005-02-22
Calabash, NC
reply to darcilicious
The biggest hurdle to ANY MMO, be it PTP, or FTP, is keeping the users entertained enough to keep playing.

In the Warcraft-like gaming world I've tried a few, RIFT was boring, DCUO was boring, AION was decent, but just never got me. I've tried others that also failed to keep me interested to keep going back and playing.

WoW has started to bore me as well, but I still prefer to seek my boredom with something fun and familiar, vs the new game in town that will inevitably become boring and shelved as well. The "Ooooooh! Aaaaaaah!"s wear off quickly.


Clipper

join:2002-05-23
Stoney Creek, ON

1 recommendation

reply to darcilicious
The whole concept of "free to play" bothers me.

If you want to actually experience the whole game, rarely is a FTP game actually "free" to play. What they usually are, are demos, or trial accounts.

I played Lord of the Rings online when it turned FTP simply because I was bored of WoW and wanted to try another MMO. The extremely small backpack size for Free accounts was very limiting. Not to mention there was only 1 or 2 character slots plus access to classes was restricted. This was frustrating because being a "free" game, why should I be expected to pay money to actually get to play the game?

I know I get it, games need to make money. This is why I had no problem paying my $10-$15 a month to Blizzard to play WoW. If a game is going to be called "free", It better damn well be free or I'm going to be turned off the moment you try and get me to pay $20 for more bank slots or $10 to access new character slots.

Or in the most egregious examples, the 'Free' game is structured in such a way that it's impossible to actually advance or compete in the game unless you spend the money.

It's a facebook and IOS game style of micro-transactions to advance in a game. It's toxic.

I wish developers would call it what it is. These games are almost NEVER free to play. They are Trial accounts. Or Demo accounts. "Free" sets up a players mindset that they will never have to open their wallet and it draws them in. So I guess from a marketing standpoint, they've done a good job.

It just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.


Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:5
^ This.


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to Clipper
I agree with that.
Though considering the majority of the games are fantasy type, how should a developer go about raising money to keep the game going?

A donation tab on their google adsense loaded web site?

I could see product placement in the game, as a well of supporting the game. Kind of like How Dodge has the Charger in the game Defiance. Granted Defiance isn't a true Free to play game.
But can you imagine a warrior walking around with a shield that is advertising female hygiene products?
Or wearing platemail that advertises home security?

--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


captokita
Premium
join:2005-02-22
Calabash, NC
said by Snakeoil:

But can you imagine a warrior walking around with a shield that is advertising female hygiene products?
Or wearing platemail that advertises home security?

No.


Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:5
reply to Snakeoil
said by Snakeoil:

I agree with that.
Though considering the majority of the games are fantasy type, how should a developer go about raising money to keep the game going?

The common two ways are to seek donations or seek investors. Donations are voluntary, not built into the game, and the donating party expects nothing in return. They just want to support something that they feel is worthwhile. Investors do the same, but they invest in what is worthwhile for them personally and seek something in return (generally a stake in the profits once the game is released).

I agree with Clipper that if they are truly "free", they should be demos or trial versions. Something to wet the player's appetite. And if they like it, then they need to buy it. If it's not ready for release yet, what they are buying is beta testing access. They have full access to the game and in addition are able to help the developers in providing feedback.
--
Absölution -- 6/6 MSV, 4/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 1/12 ToT
Pride and Ego -- 6/6 MSV 1/6H, 6/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 2/12 ToT


Caelharrad

join:2012-04-13
Fenton, MO
reply to Clipper
said by Clipper:

Or in the most egregious examples, the 'Free' game is structured in such a way that it's impossible to actually advance or compete in the game unless you spend the money.

I read this, and immediately thought of Wizard101. (Don't worry... my 7-year-old and 9-year-old son play it, not me.) They had seen me playing WoW, and asked if they could play - I said "no", because (a) way too young, (b) not cheap, and (c) see point (a) again. When I saw the ads for W101, it seemed ideal - F2P, kid-friendly... I downloaded it and played for about an hour, just to check it out. There's no profanity in chat (you're restricted to drop-down menus as to what you can say, such as "nice job!", or "I need to be healed", or "want to do a quest with me", etc), the graphics were OK, there were a variety of things to do in-game (pets, mini-games at the carnival, etc). Combat was turn-based, so no need for super reflexes... and, free to play. I said they could each have an account.
...
Fast forward to about 2 weeks later, they're only about level 8 or so. "Daddy, I have a quest in such-and-such zone, but I can't get there unless I pay 500 crowns... how do I get crowns?" "Dad, I need 1,000 crowns for this cool pet, he'll help me beat the zombie boss." "Daddy, there's another zone I can't open the gate for, I need 750 more crowns." And, of course, crowns = $$$. Now, every Christmas, one of the things they make sure to request is W101 game cards. I sure don't remember those ads mentioning that you can only access about 10% of the game world for free. It would be like WoW is now free to play... but you can only go to Elwynn Forest and Redridge Mountains (or, Durotar and Northern Barrens Horde-side). Every other zone costs $5 to open. ARRRGGGGHHH.


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
That is how Dungeons and Dragons online does it. They have a "basic" land that you can wonder around in. Then if you want to to Dungeon crawling, you have to pay. Want to go to a new land area, you have to pay. Want more toon slots, you guessed it.

I hate the "nickel-and-diming" but I also understand that there are people/equipment on the other end that need money to keep working.

I've jumped back into Rift, since it went free to play. They sell boosts in the "money" store, mounts, pets, housing items, and some gear. But there is nothing in the store that would give you an edge over other players that don't pay.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
said by Snakeoil:

That is how Dungeons and Dragons online does it. They have a "basic" land that you can wonder around in. Then if you want to to Dungeon crawling, you have to pay. Want to go to a new land area, you have to pay. Want more toon slots, you guessed it.

I hate the "nickel-and-diming" but I also understand that there are people/equipment on the other end that need money to keep working.

I've jumped back into Rift, since it went free to play. They sell boosts in the "money" store, mounts, pets, housing items, and some gear. But there is nothing in the store that would give you an edge over other players that don't pay.

I can't get an accurate list of everything in the store since it appears you need to be logged into the game to see it and I've never played, but any sort of boost (like XP, chances at better gear dropping, actual gear you can buy, amount of money you earn, etc.) give people who are willing to pay a subtle advantage over everyone else. It doesn't seem like a lot, but cumulatively, over time, it will still lead to a significant gap between "haves" and "have nots". Without that store, the only limitation would be in regards to how much time you had to invest to earn things the proper way.

"ARE THERE ANY RESTRICTIONS FOR FREE PLAYERS?
To combat gold farmers, free players are limited to 2,500 platinum and cannot sell items on the Auction house. Both of these restrictions are lifted if the player ever makes a credit pack purchase or if they spend credits purchased through REX. You can find more information on REX below."

Not being able to sell things on the auction house - in any game - is also a *huge* restriction to your ability to earn currency. I don't need to play the game to discern that.

World of Warcraft is adding some kind of in-game store in its next patch, and one of the items in it is going to be some kind of XP boost. It's speculated right now that it's only going to be available in certain places (like Asian countries) but it's still another step down that slippery slope. I have no real issues with a store when it comes to vanity items like mounts and pets or things that are purely cosmetic in nature. But even simple things like inventory or vault space give people willing to pony up money an edge. When you combine that with any kind of game that involves multiplayer situations like raids, it just creates a frustrating experience. Even if some of the things can be obtained in the game, the people who have money still get it all faster, and just leave everyone else behind. I felt like that when I played Star Trek Online, and was frustrated enough with that feeling I ended up paying for one month just to get some of the perks.

It's one thing when it's a single-player game where you exist in a vacuum and you're not exposed to all those people. But when you find yourself competing against people for raid slots and those people have faster access to better gear and the ability to earn money faster, it becomes unbalanced.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
It's going to be interesting to see where the MMOs are going. Free to play, or subscription.
The players in the end will vote, like they always do, with their wallet.
Those that earn a positive cash flow will stick around and get updates, those that don't will shutter their doors.

I like the idea of no monthly fee, as I don't feel pressured to play every day. I pay for a month, and in the back of my head I'm thinking i have to play a few hour a day.
But it all boils down to, at least for me, do I like the game.
Graphics don't mean anything, if I the player dislike the game contents.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


SteelersFan

join:2001-02-12
Rockwall, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to darcilicious
I've been playing Neverwinter for about a month now and at level 60, I'm more than content after never spending a dime on anything. Still, I probably would have paid something to get where I was. Now I find the game somewhat repetitive (lather, rinse, repeat) and may discontinue playing it soon. I was amazed and how much I was able to get out of that game without paying a cent. They should at least have put an advertisement on my screen periodically. I wouldn't have felt so guilty!

Chuck_IV

join:2003-11-18
Connecticut
reply to Snakeoil
said by Snakeoil:

That is how Dungeons and Dragons online does it. They have a "basic" land that you can wonder around in. Then if you want to to Dungeon crawling, you have to pay. Want to go to a new land area, you have to pay. Want more toon slots, you guessed it.

I hate the "nickel-and-diming" but I also understand that there are people/equipment on the other end that need money to keep working.

I used to say the same thing about nickel and diming but after playing LOTRO again, if it's done right, I can tolerate it(and use it on occassion).

LOTRO gives you a path to play, even if you don't want to do the nickel/diming. The nickel and diming just makes things go faster, but you can still "go"(minus obvious expansions paks that must be bought to gain thos added levels from 50-85).

I've been back in to it again for a bit now and I do the nickel and diming thing once in a while with some XP boosts and using ingame tokens(which are bought or gained via accomplishments in game) to port directly to quests givers/finishers. Makes things go fasters but they are not a necessity.