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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to Kamus

Re: Good!

said by Kamus:

I've said this before; but i think that 4k will become the standard faster than 1080p did. even if people don't think they need it, they'll end up having it.

It MAY, but you remember 3D? The technology that just a few years ago, was hyped to "Change the world of home entertainment"
It came and went with a recent THUD! leaving MOST users wishing that the money had been spent on better customer service or wider distribution of HD programing or even cheaper prices.
No doubt 4k and 8k can meet SOME medical and industrial needs today, the question is Does the average video customer NEED it home? and will/can they be convinced to pay the development costs NOW? Or should the development take place/be paid for in the medical/industrial world and the much cheaper mass reproduction for consumer use be delayed a year or 2?

If "cutting edge" consumers are leaving CATV/mainstream video providers in droves (as some would like you to believe) should that industry lead this development? OR should they protect the price points and covet the other 90+% of the customers that are ok with waiting a couple years.

I understand DEVICE manufacters need a new killer feature, doesn't always mean consumer services and end users are ready for it.

Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

said by tshirt:

OR should they protect the price points and covet the other 90+% of the customers that are ok with waiting a couple years.

This is at the heart of my argument. I don't think there is any incentive to not go 4K.
If we were back in 2010, i would agree with you, because the technology wasn't cost effective yet.
But it is now, and very soon it will cost them exactly the same to produce a 4K TV compared to a 1080p one. The Seiki 4k set that retails for about $950 is the best evidence for this. In just a couple of years, 4K shipments will be higher than 1080p shipments, if for no other reason than they have ceased production of 1080p panels.
So, consumers "needing" the technology or not is missing the point. They are getting it regardless of their feelings towards it (or knowledge of it).

What i'm saying is... even if you want a 1080p TV in the future. You simply won't be able to get one. And if you are able to get your hands in one, it will be very close in price to a 4K one.


hdfan

@cox.net
reply to tshirt

3d is stil doing fine in home video and video games. espn 3d is hardly unexpected. not everyone has hd yet, and most people with hd do not have hdtv service now ad 3d to this. and that you in many cases have to pay extra for hd channels (3d is an added bonus to having hd channels though) more tvs are going 3d but it takes a while for people to upgrade in mass. 4k and 8k will support 3d once epecs are final. we have to wait on the next hdmi format.



tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Kamus

said by Kamus:



But it is now, and very soon it will cost them exactly the same to produce a 4K TV compared to a 1080p one. The Seiki 4k set that retails for about $950 is the best evidence for this.

I agree it will soon carry only a small premium even for the name brands but give it a couple 3 years before wide adoption. (Most people won't toss their recent model 1080, just to get a better picture.*
BTW I looked at a local store that was advertising Sekei brand 1080 sets, and they are TOTAL garbage, if the QC carries through to the 4K models you won't prefer them to a good 1080P Samsung, sony or LG.
In fact a poor showing by the first budget set may set the whole market back a year or 2. **

* One of the conundrums for the current electronic industry is that a decently built (what you expect from a name brand set) big screen or other electronic device will easily outlive (by many times) the shorter product cycles.
that is things continue to work AND remain USEFUL far longer then it takes the industry to come out with one or more generations of the next big thing. Plus the "greening" of the planets major consumer base means people want to buy 1 good one and have it last much longer.

** Another factor in the loss of brick and mortar sales particularly electronics is you rarely see dedicated video display rooms, with most first views/impressions of new displays in less than optimally setup venues like walmart, sears, fred meyer, target, Costco, (I left out best buy as, at least they try...somewhat) and if the first AFFORDABLE sets are badly received, the market will flounder.


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to hdfan

said by hdfan :

3d is stil doing fine in home video and video games. espn 3d is hardly unexpected. not everyone has hd yet, and most people with hd do not have hdtv service now ad 3d to this. and that you in many cases have to pay extra for hd channels (3d is an added bonus to having hd channels though) more tvs are going 3d but it takes a while for people to upgrade in mass. 4k and 8k will support 3d once epecs are final. we have to wait on the next hdmi format.

I do agree for those limited markets where 3d works, more pixels is vital and 4k will boost that market.
I think HD (720-1080) penetration is much deeper than you believe in the video market partly because of streaming made large amounts of quality content easily and cheaply available.
the first gen of non-projection home theater was driven by plasma and dvd/Blu-ray both expensive to buy and to run, LCD's quickly took over with reasonable prices and improving quality, LED's have really come to the masses both in cost to buy and low energy use.
What is next is 4k and lower energy use, even better quality (beyond just more pixels) and likely extreme lifespan (just as mandatory recyclability becomes a reality )
I just disagree on the BUY today timeline, in 2 plus years it will more likely be a mainstream move.

IMHO_Half the consumers have or will buy in the next 3 years the last TV they will HAVE to buy...that is it will/could last the rest of their lives with normal care. It obviously in many cases will be added to (ie moved to the bedroom, kids room, vacation house etc.) as people want new features, but the typical buy cycle promises to be getting longer.

Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

1 edit
reply to tshirt

said by tshirt:

BTW I looked at a local store that was advertising Sekei brand 1080 sets, and they are TOTAL garbage, if the QC carries through to the 4K models you won't prefer them to a good 1080P Samsung, sony or LG.

Oh, i wasn't suggesting people go out and buy the Seiki. I was merely using it as proof of concept. I'd sooner see my self spending $2,000+ on a 1080p Panasonic VT 60 than the $1,000 on the Seiki. Because if you really care about Picture quality nothing can touch the Panasonic in contrast at the moment. (something that is far more noticeable measure of picture quality, because LCD is so bad at it) For that we will have to wait until OLED or true LED TV's come down in price (or in the case of real LED TV's come out of the prototype stage)

So, as bad as the Seiki might be, it is still very good evidence of what to expect in the very near future, not just from them. But from every major player.

*EDIT* More affordable 4k TV's, this one with an MSRP of $600, but will probably street for a lot less:

»www.engadget.com/2013/06/25/seik···for-699/


Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable
reply to tshirt

said by tshirt:

said by hdfan :

IMHO_Half the consumers have or will buy in the next 3 years the last TV they will HAVE to buy...that is it will/could last the rest of their lives with normal care. It obviously in many cases will be added to (ie moved to the bedroom, kids room, vacation house etc.) as people want new features, but the typical buy cycle promises to be getting longer.

Never happen the manufacturers will do something that makes them wear out. It's like light bulbs, they can made very well last a very long time but the companies that make light bulbs make sure they wear out in a set amount of time.


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to tshirt

Wrong, 3D was what it always has been, a gimmick that has never really worked. Video resolution increases are always a good thing since it allows high detail things like action movies and sports better. Since they are planning on making QFHD/4K screens in the 15" range for laptops there won't be any issue with people having the ability to make use of it in the coming years.

My only hope is that QFHD/4K broadcast standard finally kills crap like overscan. as well hopefully the logo restrictions cover the actual resolution of the screen, not what the inputs can handle so we don't have the tons of crap screens with crap resolutions claiming they support it like we had with "1080 HD" screens that had an actual screen resolution as low as 1024x768@40"...



intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to hdfan

3D was a non started due to the need for the glasses and the fact that it causes half of the people that view it to have a migraine after only an hour.