dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
264
share rss forum feed


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Glad not ready til 2015

I am glad Docsis 3.1 won't be ready until 2015. That gives me a couple more years on my current owned Docsis 3 cable modem until I have to buy a new CM to handle Docsis 3.1.
--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."

Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06
Stupid logic, you're "glad" to have mediocre service? Not to mention 3.1 is backwards compatible, so you could stick with the old speeds while those who invest in new equipment get better service


Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
No one said anything about mediocre service.
--
If you can't open it, you don't own it.


tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1

1 recommendation

you're right. Just terrible logic.


palmer73

@comcast.net
No terrible logic if you are trying to get your money's worth out of a modem you possibly just bought.. think about it.. then the cable company announces the next day that they are upgrading and for whatever reason your current modem doesn't work or won't give you the speeds, then you have to go out and spend another 60-100.. so his logic seems right on point to me if you look at it from a spending point of view.


lkviewguy

join:2004-02-13
Chicago, IL
maybe you should pay more attention to this site and other so that you aren't suddenly surprised when new speeds come come out. Why should everyone have to suffer cause someone else is too cheap to buy a new modem for 100 bucks. Besides they are backwards compatible, enjoy your modem as long as you want, imma enjoy mine with the new speeds

Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX
reply to FFH5
said by FFH5:

I am glad Docsis 3.1 won't be ready until 2015. That gives me a couple more years on my current owned Docsis 3 cable modem until I have to buy a new CM to handle Docsis 3.1.

Wait, you actually have to BUY the modem? what kind of service is that?
That's really bad. All i have to do is go change mine at a whim with my ISP, no questions asked, no stupid fees for rental either.

To make matters worst, you actually have to buy a modem just to end up with yet another obsolete copper connection. that's really bad, i feel for you. =(

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
Obsolete?


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to Cabal
said by Cabal:

No one said anything about mediocre service.

however the competition against cable is just that
--
Despises any post with strings.


DAOWAce

join:2006-10-25
Flanders, NJ
reply to palmer73
Who buys cable modems? Looks like someone needs to question their choice of ISP instead of blame technology for improving.

2015 is way too far away; I don't see how Cable is going to keep up with Fiber if they're going to be that slow with improving specifications.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit
said by DAOWAce:

Who buys cable modems? Looks like someone needs to question their choice of ISP instead of blame technology for improving.

People buy cable modems when the monthly rental can be offset in 12 months or so. And as far as choosing an ISP, most have a choice of cable(at 50/10 mbps) or Dsl(at 3/1 mbps). An easy choice, especially when the price differential is small.
--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."

Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX
reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:

Obsolete?

Yes. Fiber has made it obsolete and it's not a recent event either.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Oh, ok. So since a medium isn't a thin string of plastic encased in a heavier plastic cladding, it's obsolete? What about the millions of miles of viable coax strung across the US that has a very real bandwidth capacity capable of serving real customers for the foreseeable future? It isn't obsolete. Will it be someday? Likely. Is it now? No.

tanzam75

join:2012-07-19

1 edit
said by openbox9:

Oh, ok. So since a medium isn't a thin string of plastic encased in a heavier plastic cladding, it's obsolete? What about the millions of miles of viable coax strung across the US that has a very real bandwidth capacity capable of serving real customers for the foreseeable future? It isn't obsolete. Will it be someday? Likely. Is it now? No.

The fiber that ISPs are installing is glass-cored.

There is such a thing as plastic optical fiber (POF), but it is currently stuck in niche applications. The problem is that POF has attenuation of 20-40 dB/km, vs. under 1 dB/km for glass. This makes POF usable only for short-distance usage, as an Ethernet replacement.

Coax still has several years of headroom left. Until they hit the bandwidth wall, the cablecos will have a capex advantage over any FTTP competitor. After that point, everyone is on an equal footing.

Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

1 edit
reply to openbox9
said by openbox9:

Oh, ok. So since a medium isn't a thin string of plastic encased in a heavier plastic cladding, it's obsolete? What about the millions of miles of viable coax strung across the US that has a very real bandwidth capacity capable of serving real customers for the foreseeable future? It isn't obsolete. Will it be someday? Likely. Is it now? No.

I think you are confused... You are making arguments that don't change the fact that it's obsolete technology. You can make arguments all day in favor of copper. It still won't change the fact that those copper infrastructures were deployed with very different purposes in mind than internet access, many decades ago.

When it comes to data, copper has been obsolete for a lot more than just a decade. When was the last time you saw any long haul deployed with copper?

So yes, you can make valid arguments why cable companies and DSL providers will never, ever deploy fiber. But it still doesn't change the fact that copper is an obsolete technology.

Just in case you are still confused on what obsolete actually means. This is right out from wikipedia:

"Technical obsolescence usually occurs when a new product or technology supersedes the old, and it becomes preferred to use the new technology in place of the old, even if the old product is still functional."

So there you have it... just because DSL and cable still sell their old product. It doesn't change the fact that fiber can offer performance that is orders of magnitude higher for about the same price (if you were to start a new build from scratch)

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
I think you don't understand the definition and meaning of obsolete.

said by Kamus:

So yes, you can make valid arguments why cable companies and DSL providers will never, ever deploy fiber.

I've never made that argument, nor will I.

said by Kamus:

Just in case you are still confused on what obsolete actually means.

And just so you have a real definition, here's one from Merriam-Webster:
said by Merriam-Webster :

1 a: no longer in use or no longer useful (an obsolete word)
b: of a kind or style no longer current: old-fashioned (an obsolete technology)

I'll argue all day long that coax is still useful and very much a medium useful with current technology. You could've used several other words and I wouldn't have challenged your assessment, but I'll argue obsolescence.

said by Kamus:

just because DSL and cable still sell their old product. It doesn't change the fact that fiber can offer performance that is orders of magnitude higher

I've never argued otherwise, but that definitely doesn't make coax obsolete.

Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Reviews:
·Solarus
reply to tanzam75
said by tanzam75:

said by openbox9:

Oh, ok. So since a medium isn't a thin string of plastic encased in a heavier plastic cladding, it's obsolete? What about the millions of miles of viable coax strung across the US that has a very real bandwidth capacity capable of serving real customers for the foreseeable future? It isn't obsolete. Will it be someday? Likely. Is it now? No.

The fiber that ISPs are installing is glass-cored.

There is such a thing as plastic optical fiber (POF), but it is currently stuck in niche applications. The problem is that POF has attenuation of 20-40 dB/km, vs. under 1 dB/km for glass. This makes POF usable only for short-distance usage, as an Ethernet replacement.

Coax still has several years of headroom left. Until they hit the bandwidth wall, the cablecos will have a capex advantage over any FTTP competitor. After that point, everyone is on an equal footing.

In the lab, they can get COAX up to 10Gb over a few miles. In the lab, they can get fiber at almost 1Tb over 800 miles and well over 1Tb in the sub 2mile range(for cheap to). By cheap, I mean upwards of 12Tb/s fiber that is cheap enough to integrate into your cell-phone and has upwards of 2Km range. IBM is working with many companies to start using this new tech.

The difference between me getting 10Gb fiber and you getting 10Gb cable is I get all 10Gb to myself between me and my ISP, you have to share.


tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
reply to palmer73
said by palmer73 :

No terrible logic if you are trying to get your money's worth out of a modem you possibly just bought.. think about it.. then the cable company announces the next day that they are upgrading and for whatever reason your current modem doesn't work or won't give you the speeds, then you have to go out and spend another 60-100.. so his logic seems right on point to me if you look at it from a spending point of view.

His logic is terrible - this isn't rocket-science.

It's unlikely he's maxing out his cable modem as it is. Upgrading their end of the network doesn't mean the old consumer-end technology is obsolete. If anything the old modem will finally be more likely to max out thanks to updated infrastructure it'll connect to.

It's like comparing a Ferrari (docsis 3.1) and a Honda (Docsis 3.0). In the United States neither car can perform at their maximum since our infrastructure (roads) has speed limits and congestion. The Ferrari can go 190mph, and the Honda can go 120mph, but on our infrastructure they're only gonna go 70-80mph.

If you upgrade the infrastructure to allow for higher speed limits, BOTH cars benefit since NEITHER car was hitting their limits before anyways.

The same goes for Docsis 3.0->3.1. If you upgrade the infrastructure to support higher capacity, then all users benefit - even those without the latest-and-greatest.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara

tanzam75

join:2012-07-19
reply to Bengie25
said by Bengie25:

In the lab, they can get COAX up to 10Gb over a few miles. In the lab, they can get fiber at almost 1Tb over 800 miles and well over 1Tb in the sub 2mile range(for cheap to). By cheap, I mean upwards of 12Tb/s fiber that is cheap enough to integrate into your cell-phone and has upwards of 2Km range. IBM is working with many companies to start using this new tech.

The difference between me getting 10Gb fiber and you getting 10Gb cable is I get all 10Gb to myself between me and my ISP, you have to share.

If money were no object, then of course, you go for the best technology available.

The problem with FTTP is that the bonds start accruing interest immediately, whereas you start out with a take rate of 0% and have to work for years to get it up to the targeted value. That's why Verizon stopped their FiOS deployments and concentrated on improving take rate. If they already spent the money, it's a sunk cost. But if they haven't deployed fiber, it's just not worth it to spend the money.

Whereas the cablecos have the ability to upgrade incrementally until they hit that 10 Gbps barrier. The cablecos haven't even hit the 10 Gbps limit for a 250-household node -- much less 10 Gbps per household. So, the cablecos have many years of runway left.

Eventually, of course, they run out of bandwidth and will have no choice but to deploy fiber. But the key is that they do not incur the capital costs of a fiber deployment until they actually need it.