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« Glad not ready til 2015docsis 4 »
This is a sub-selection from Puny upstream.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 edit
reply to GlennAllen

Re: Puny upstream.

To improve the situation with low upstream speeds for cable Internet. DOCSIS 3.1 is long overdue.



GlennAllen
Sunny with highs in the 80s
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS

Yes, I know (as well as it being restated in the the news blurb). My point is though, what percentage of customers have any use at all for more upstream than they already have? 1%? 2? (Outside of these few, nobody's even pushing the existing "paltry" upstream speed limit.) It may currently be "anemic" by comparison, but by and large it doesn't matter anywhere outside of the comparison with those other mentioned providers. Hence, nothing more than a PR "war". And just another reason to keep raising prices.

On the other hand, every [TV] customer would like better PQ.



mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:8

1 recommendation

said by GlennAllen:

My point is though, what percentage of customers have any use at all for more upstream than they already have? 1%? 2?

It depends on who's upstream speeds you're talking about. If you're talking Comcast then yes I would agree with you. However, those of us stuck with Time Warner are in dire need of faster upstream speeds. Wanna try some new 'cloud' service? Not gonna happen. Offsite backups? Prepare to mail a thumb drive or external HDD.

/M

dfxmatt

join:2007-08-21
Evanston, IL
reply to GlennAllen

It doesn't matter what the percentage is, because nobody has that choice at the moment. People can't even explore what they can possibly do with it because upstream is significantly restricted.



pnjunction
Teksavvy Extreme
Premium
join:2008-01-24
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
reply to GlennAllen

I know many people that upload things to sites like dropbox. It's a couple of taps on new smartphones to upload all camera pics to dropbox, and it's a smart thing to do since phones can get lost or die resulting in data loss. It's also very slow to do right now with 1 MBps upload.

And I know we're cynical here but if you just look at fixed speeds prices have been dropping in my experience (25mbps for $40 here these days). Nobody is putting a gun to people's heads and making them upgrade to higher speeds instead of staying slower and paying less. The lowest tier is unlikely to drop below $25, but now that tier is 6-7 Mbps instead of 0.5 Mbps around here.



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1
reply to GlennAllen

Maybe this is a chicken and the egg scenario, maybe once more people have more symmetrical speeds, applications that utilize more upload will become more prevalent.

I always want more upload, I'm lucky enough to have FiOS though.
It's far from a useless upgrade.



GlennAllen
Sunny with highs in the 80s
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS
reply to pnjunction

As a rule, we don't have slower/cheaper tiers available. I can get either FiOS or Comcast. The slowest tiers available are around 15/5, and the cheapest prices are around $70-75/mo.

Yes, I know there are many who do presently use their upstream for stuff and could use something faster. Still, they are--by far--the exception, not the rule. Now, if I had my way, every ISP would do what Google does with Fiber--one tier at one price and you simply go as fast as the [real, actual] network allows, and one tier that's rather speed-restricted but it's practically free so who cares. In other words, I'd like the price to reflect the cost. I'll likely "retire" from the Internet before I ever see that happen around here.



CosmicDebri
Still looking for intelligent life

join:2001-09-01
Port Saint Lucie, FL
reply to GlennAllen

said by GlennAllen:

Yes, I know (as well as it being restated in the the news blurb). My point is though, what percentage of customers have any use at all for more upstream than they already have? 1%? 2? (Outside of these few, nobody's even pushing the existing "paltry" upstream speed limit.) It may currently be "anemic" by comparison, but by and large it doesn't matter anywhere outside of the comparison with those other mentioned providers. Hence, nothing more than a PR "war". And just another reason to keep raising prices.

On the other hand, every [TV] customer would like better PQ.

I am on Comcast in Florida and we have horrendous, nay pathetic upload speed. Yes they doubled our download to 50 mb/s but the upload is still 2.56???? wtf is wrong with this picture??


--
Follow Your Bliss -- Joseph Cambell
I reject your Reality and substitute my own! -- Adam Savage, Mythbuster


GlennAllen
Sunny with highs in the 80s
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA

Nothing is wrong with the picture. As I said, only a teeny-tiny percentage of customers give a damn about upload speed. Also, most of them would barely use more than a tenth of that download speed.


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

said by GlennAllen:

Nothing is wrong with the picture. As I said, only a teeny-tiny percentage of customers give a damn about upload speed. Also, most of them would barely use more than a tenth of that download speed.

Just keep repeating yourself like a broken record and that will make it more true.


GlennAllen
Sunny with highs in the 80s
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA

Asked a simple question, gave a simple answer. Still true... never said it was "right" (that's the way cable ISPs are & have always been).

Now, if you want to see it done "right", then look at Google Fiber.


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to GlennAllen

said by GlennAllen:

As a rule, we don't have slower/cheaper tiers available. I can get either FiOS or Comcast. The slowest tiers available are around 15/5, and the cheapest prices are around $70-75/mo.

15/5 is the slow speed, although 5 is quite a bit higher than the avg connection speed but that is FiOS. There shouldn't be anything less than that. $70 - $75 for an Internet connection?! of what speed? that is nuts.

said by GlennAllen:

Yes, I know there are many who do presently use their upstream for stuff and could use something faster. Still, they are--by far--the exception, not the rule.

When so many North American broadband connections are still at pathetically low levels of 2Mbps or less for upstream then I'd disagree. As connection speeds on the avg go up then I'd tend to agree but the avg connection speeds are still too slow.


GlennAllen
Sunny with highs in the 80s
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS

I just told you what speed. Check their websites (of course, there are some regional differences--what I referenced was for around here).

I'm talking about "typical", not "average". The typical person almost never uses more than 5/1. If you've got a house with 5 people where no more than 3 of them are expected to be "online" simultaneously, then you typically need only 15/3 (fluff it up to 15/5 if you like). That's life in the typical information superhighway lane.


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

said by GlennAllen:

I just told you what speed. Check their websites (of course, there are some regional differences--what I referenced was for around here).

So $70 - $75 for 15/5? Crazy. But looking at their site that includes TV service.

Where I am I am paying $45 CDN ($43 USD) for 25/2 cable Internet (no TV).

said by GlennAllen:

I'm talking about "typical", not "average". The typical person almost never uses more than 5/1. If you've got a house with 5 people where no more than 3 of them are expected to be "online" simultaneously, then you typically need only 15/3 (fluff it up to 15/5 if you like). That's life in the typical information superhighway lane.

What is typical or average is not the same as it was a few years ago. If people didn't use this stuff the providers wouldn't be upgrading their speed tiers across the board. 1Mbps up nowadays for the typical/average joe is too slow.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to GlennAllen

said by GlennAllen:

Asked a simple question, gave a simple answer. Still true... never said it was "right" (that's the way cable ISPs are & have always been).

Now, if you want to see it done "right", then look at Google Fiber.

Except ISPs are increasing their upstream speeds and they would not do that if practically no one used the bandwidth.

Well of course Google Fiber is the way to do things right, but we live in North America. So it is unlikely that would happen in most areas. I could only dream of the sane people of the world would rise up to ensure North America has decent Internet connections pretty much everywhere. That would make too much sense though.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to MovieLover76

said by MovieLover76:

Maybe this is a chicken and the egg scenario, maybe once more people have more symmetrical speeds, applications that utilize more upload will become more prevalent.

I always want more upload, I'm lucky enough to have FiOS though.
It's far from a useless upgrade.

Well most consumer Internet connections will not be symmetrical or close to it, but it is very useful to remove the ridiculously asymmetrical speeds all too common to cable as one such common scenario. As an example I just got off of a cable 18 / 512Kb tier and upgraded to 25 / 2. The problem with 18 / 512kb is it is enough upstream to download at full speed and nothing else. Now I can actually web browse and other things and not have an impact on downloading. Now I can actually use Skype and other similar video related services.

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

What client are you using? Windows XP? If the line quality is good (minimal or no packet loss), I believe other clients (Linux, Mac OSX and Vista+) will automatically increase the RWIN so that there are fewer ACKs. Fewer ACKs require less upstream bandwidth to keep the stream flowing.

Of course I do agree that 512Kbps upstream is very slow. I'm trying to think back over the years and I don't believe I ever had 512Kbps up. My first HSI plan circa Y2K was 512Kbps down and 128Kbps up. Over the years it went to 1.5/256Kbps, 3/768, 8/1, 12/2 and currently 15/3 with power boost. The boost will push data at me sometimes up to 100Mbps but it quickly settles somewhere between 20-30. Upstream is always around 3.xx.



GlennAllen
Sunny with highs in the 80s
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS
reply to 34764170

Where you are isn't where I am, and both Verizon and Comcast do it pretty much the same everywhere else to the south of you. I'm so happy for you that your location is delightfully fast and cheap--congrats!

But since I am where I am ("the states"), and I don't plan to drop service in 6 months, nor want to get 1 or 2 other services in order to make the one I want to have cost a little less (meaning I don't want to pay Verizon and Comcast $150/mo in order to save $10 or $15 a month on Internet service), I guess I'm stuck with what's available here (along with some hundreds of millions of others). Oh, well... too bad, so sad.

You really don't know what you're talking about. Feel free, though, to continue ignoring reality.


34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

said by GlennAllen:

Oh, well... too bad, so sad.

Ya, sucks to be you.

said by GlennAllen:

You really don't know what you're talking about. Feel free, though, to continue ignoring reality.

I could say the same to you.

Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Reviews:
·Solarus
reply to CosmicDebri

said by CosmicDebri:

said by GlennAllen:

Yes, I know (as well as it being restated in the the news blurb). My point is though, what percentage of customers have any use at all for more upstream than they already have? 1%? 2? (Outside of these few, nobody's even pushing the existing "paltry" upstream speed limit.) It may currently be "anemic" by comparison, but by and large it doesn't matter anywhere outside of the comparison with those other mentioned providers. Hence, nothing more than a PR "war". And just another reason to keep raising prices.

On the other hand, every [TV] customer would like better PQ.

I am on Comcast in Florida and we have horrendous, nay pathetic upload speed. Yes they doubled our download to 50 mb/s but the upload is still 2.56???? wtf is wrong with this picture??


You think that's bad. My ISP has a horrible connection to most speed sites. I can get my rated speed from almost any real web site, but these speed test sites seem to be bad.


»speedof.me/show.php?img=13063000···1693.png

I have 50/50 fiber. I can maintain a 10ms ping many game servers while uploading and/or downloading 45Mb/s. But all of these speed test server.. pffft. I even get 20Mb/s uploads to Youtube and 48Mb/s from Steam.


intok

join:2012-03-15
reply to GlennAllen

said by GlennAllen:

As a rule, we don't have slower/cheaper tiers available. I can get either FiOS or Comcast. The slowest tiers available are around 15/5, and the cheapest prices are around $70-75/mo.

Apparently you don't know how to haggle. They only advertise that tier because of the 10,000%+ markup on it. All ISPs can and will give you a slower and cheaper connection if you call them up.

But you are moronically wrong about upload speed not mattering, even things that only millions of people use like play online games or video chat depend so much more on your upload then your download that it isn't even funny.
--
You think theres no games for Linux? »desura.com »gameolith.com »humblebundle.com »playdeb.net »ubuntuvibes.com

Check out »youtube.com/user/TheBigPictureRT/videos »freespeech.org and »democracynow.org


GlennAllen
Sunny with highs in the 80s
Premium
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA

One of my favorite quotes (paraphrased):

J: "Is being a moron like being high all the time?"

K: "No, it's like constantly being right."