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Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
reply to saillaw

Re: Teen Jailed For Violent Comment During League of Legends....

Write them a letter... that's how that shit starts. Take it to »www.reddit.com/r/legal or their change.org petition. Reddit loves justice--maybe some heat can be directed towards the DA if he is clearly in the wrong.

I wonder what Ken Pope (keeper of the Popehat blog) thinks about the case....

There is at least one reddit thread on the issue: »www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/c···nsa_etc/

with a good comment on it here:

EDIT: After reading up across several articles, this banter does take place all on Facebook. Context set.

My current stance on this is as follows: Justin Carter is an idiot for posting his message. Depending on the source, his message is as follows:

Im [expletive] in the head alright. Ima shoot up a kindergarten/ And watch the blood of the innocent rain down/ And eat the beating heart of one of them. -NPR(OP's source)

'Oh yeah, I'm real messed up in the head. I'm going to go shoot up a school full of kids and eat their still-beating hearts.'" -CNN, FOX, Huffington Post

I'm inclined to believe NPR is more spot on. It's one thing to say "I'm going to blow up my school". Some things that stand out to me (as an uninformed outsider analyzing the statement) in his statement is that Carter specifies kindergarten. The shift from "my school" to specifically a kindergarten implies a certain level of preemptive thought. In the next line, Carter uses the adjective "innocent". Because of the prior line, this specification is redundant, and only serves to highlight a preemptive action. The third line just bluntly disturbs me.

--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA

said by Krisnatharok:

with a good comment on it here:

Some things that stand out to me (as an uninformed outsider analyzing the statement) in his statement is that Carter specifies kindergarten. The shift from "my school" to specifically a kindergarten implies a certain level of preemptive thought. In the next line, Carter uses the adjective "innocent". Because of the prior line, this specification is redundant, and only serves to highlight a preemptive action. The third line just bluntly disturbs me.

No offense to you, Kris, for your taste in comments, but that commenter is an idiot. All he is doing is trying to read tea leaves and looking for things that aren't there, but trying to dress up his nonsense with empty jargon like "highlight preemptive action." I don't know what this commenter thinks "preemptive thought" means, since in the English language there is no such thing as a "preemptive" thought. The word "preemptive" is used to describe situations where a person ACTS first in some respect, in response to his belief that he must act 1st to prevent someone else from acting. (i.e. preemptive war, or a preemptive strike like Pearl Harbor) I think what that commenter means, is that he believes that this language indicates planning, which is, of course, nonsense.

This is, of course, a "preemptive" prosecution, but then again such prosecutions are not permitted under any law and represent an abuse of government power. It is the same as prosecuting someone for "thoughtcrime".

"My school" would be worse because it would indicate a specific place. "A kindergarten" is far less so because (1) it is generalized and doesn't mean any particular place, and (2) makes the comment look more hyperbolic, saying "a kindergarten" is stronger than saying "a school", because it makes it clear that he is talking about little kids as opposed to teenagers or adults. "Blood of the innocent" is also clear hyperbole, and so is eating a beating heart.

I really shouldn't be surprised at how stupid the people trying to analyze this kid's comments are being, but what it comes down to is that if you were at some party with a bunch of people you knew, and one of them said exactly what this kid said, in the context he said it, and you heard it with your own ears, NONE of you would have responded by reaching for your phone to report a terroristic threat because you honestly believed the kid was going to start shooting kids and eating hearts. You might have thought the kid was an idiot, or been like "hey brah, not cool!" Or for the really slow people, they might have said "r u srs??!"


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to cat666

said by cat666:

Although he said "LOL" and "JK", not one bit of his words were funny.

In your opinion.

said by cat666:

What has happened to him might be overkill, but he was hardly innocent and should face up to what he's done instead of claiming he was joking.

And your proof that he wasn't joking is...? The only thing he's guilty of is sarcasm and/or humor that didn't register as funny. Last I checked, sucking at comedy wasn't a federal offense - otherwise Dane Cook wouldn't still be allowed out on the streets.


Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA
reply to Ghastlyone

Josh Pillault

Click for full size
Im starting to see stories popping up online regarding Josh Pillault, pointing to some similarities in his case with Carter's case, and arguing that the injustice is even worse with him.

For example:
»www.nationalreview.com/corner/35···-w-cooke
»dailycaller.com/2013/07/02/secon···-threat/

However, Josh Pillault is not the same as Justin Carter. Unlike Justin Carter, Josh Pillault made specific threats against a specific target in a public forum [runescape chat] such that, if he were in Texas, I think you could make a good-faith argument as a prosecutor that his words violated the terroristic threats law being applied wrongfully to Carter. [it would be borderline, though] Whereas Carter's comment was sarcastic, hyperbolic, and clearly not a genuine threat, Pillault's comments were clearly intended to broadcast an intent to carry out a school shooting.

I don't think the 1st Amendment necessarily protects Josh Pillault. I don't think he belongs in prison, either. I think he should have been simply sent to a psychiatric evaluation, and, if that evaluation came back showing he wasn't a threat, to give the kid probation (it's called supervised release in federal court).

Pillault's upcoming sentencing

That might be exactly what happens. I know how federal criminal sentencing guidelines work, but I didn't do all the calculations manually here: I used an online calculator. He pled to 18 USC 844(e), which has a base offense level of 12. Defendants who take a plea deal get a -2 for acceptance of responsibility. In addition, and critical to his defense, if he shows "the offense involved a single instance evidencing little or no deliberation", which in my opinion it does, then he gets a -4. [§2A6.1]

Starting with 12 then -2 and -4 you end up with a result of 6. With no criminal history, the actual sentence Pillault is facing is 0-6 months. If he didn't get the -4, his offense level would be 10, and that means 6-12 months. Since he has already been in jail awaiting trial for 9 months, that means he will almost certainly be sentenced to time served and released.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
reply to Kaltes

Re: Teen Jailed For Violent Comment During League of Legends....

Yet what you say at a party exists for just a second, and only to those (friends?) who heard you. If it went to trial, I'm sure you could make hay out of whatever witnesses claimed they heard the partygoer making the threat and it becomes your word vs. theirs regarding the text and context of what was said.

But on the internet, what you say is absolutely permanent, can be seen by uninitiated or potentially hostile strangers, and can be dissected completely from context.

Seems like everyone involved in this case is equally idiotic.
--
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.



Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA

1 recommendation

said by Krisnatharok:

Yet what you say at a party exists for just a second, and only to those (friends?) who heard you. If it went to trial, I'm sure you could make hay out of whatever witnesses claimed they heard the partygoer making the threat and it becomes your word vs. theirs regarding the text and context of what was said.

But on the internet, what you say is absolutely permanent, can be seen by uninitiated or potentially hostile strangers, and can be dissected completely from context.

Not anymore, given how every modern cellphone has a video camera on it these days. My point was simply that no normal person would see that comment and think it was real. The Pillault comments, by contrast, might be a different story.

My personal opinion if that for every 1 kid who actually is going to carry out an attack, there are hundreds like Pillault who will blow a lot of hot air and say things but never act on them. I think arresting and prosecuting people like Pillault is a very dangerous thing, because it throws a lot of people in prison who never would have harmed anyone, and because, in my opinion, you're never ever going to save any lives, because the rare few who have criminal intent will simply keep their mouths shut and not announce their plans. It would be far better for police to have simply kept an eye on Pillault and arrested him only if they saw him carrying out preparations like obtaining the weapons he mentioned.

Carter's case, by contrast, is just beyond the pale. It is a shocking and total breakdown in the system which resulted in no one looking out for this kid's basic civil rights, even though several people in that system are getting paid by the government to do exactly that.


Blockfire
Sarcasm is my native tongue

join:2010-02-11
Wichita, KS
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
reply to Kaltes

said by Kaltes:

said by Blockfire:

nvm, found the facebook posts

Meaning what?

had asked a question about the facebook posts but answered my own question, edited to keep conversation on topic


Blockfire
Sarcasm is my native tongue

join:2010-02-11
Wichita, KS
kudos:1
Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to cat666

said by cat666:

Although he said "LOL" and "JK", not one bit of his words were funny.

What has happened to him might be overkill, but he was hardly innocent and should face up to what he's done instead of claiming he was joking.

If he had gone on to shoot up a school then the press would have been all over the police for not actioning the tip off. In my opinion it is better safe than sorry, and at least this might act as a deterrant to others.

The moral is think before you speak.

then your in the wrong country, you want that kind of protection, move to communist China.
this is 'Murica, where you're innocent until proven guilty, or at least that's what it's supposed to be.


Phantasee

join:2009-08-27
Hammond, LA
reply to Ghastlyone

He went full retard and is paying for it. Also LoL has an awful community x10000



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Ghastlyone

kid gets solitary, cop gets a walk.

»www.washingtonpost.com/local/off···ory.html
--
~ Project Hope ~



Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to Ghastlyone

Penny Arcade, weighing in.




»penny-arcade.com/2013/07/08


Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA

It is nice to see Penny Arcade coming down on this issue supporting Carter in a thoughtful and reasonable way.

Possibly in response to all the media attention (maybe even thanks to Penny Arcade), as a news update, some anonymous person has paid Carter's absurdly large $500,000 bail:

»www.businessinsider.com/bail-for···r-2013-7

His dad and his lawyer were on MSNBC tonight:

»video.msnbc.msn.com/all-in-/5245···52456022



TigerLord
Resident pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Canada
kudos:8
reply to Ghastlyone

Texas is fucking insane. Between the crazy anti-abortionists, this story and all the tarantulas, I will never step foot there.



Carpie

join:2012-10-19
united state
kudos:4
reply to saillaw

said by saillaw:

Kaltes See Profile has been exactly on point imho. There is no way, given the facts as presented in this thread, that this kid is guilty of felony terroristic threat.

^ This.
--
Absölution -- 6/6 MSV, 4/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 3/12 ToT
Pride and Ego -- 6/6 MSV 1/6H, 6/6 HoF, 4/4 ToES, 2/12 ToT
CTR Azuregos -- 12/12 ToT


Akira 28

join:2002-06-17
Garfield, NJ

I read in the paper that a anonymous benefactor posted 500k bail for the kid.
Good job



atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium
join:2004-02-14
Conroe, TX
reply to Ghastlyone

Like I said before, you don't say shit like that on-line. You don't take someone seriously, and they shoot up a school, and it comes out that the authorities knew someone said that, especially if people were killed, expect lawsuits. Now, if you want to craft laws that give immunity to the authorities, the city, state, parish/county, etc, for not taking such threats seriously, and then something happens, by all means, do so.

You don't joke about stuff like that, especially after Newtown. Adam Lanza may have spouted that stuff, and maybe someone didn't take him seriously. He might have told his mom something. I don't know.

People have gotten crazier.



bionicRod
Funkier than a mohair disco ball.
Premium
join:2009-07-06
united state
kudos:2

1 recommendation

said by atuarre:

Like I said before, you don't say shit like that on-line. You don't take someone seriously, and they shoot up a school, and it comes out that the authorities knew someone said that, especially if people were killed, expect lawsuits.

You investigate. But you use common sense and cut him loose when it's apparent he isn't a danger to anyone. You don't lock him up for months and threaten a decade in prison for something he typed once onto facebook. That's scary shit, man, and I can't believe anyone is actually taking the state's side on this one.
--
The world was movin' she was right there with it and she was


atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium
join:2004-02-14
Conroe, TX

said by bionicRod:

said by atuarre:

Like I said before, you don't say shit like that on-line. You don't take someone seriously, and they shoot up a school, and it comes out that the authorities knew someone said that, especially if people were killed, expect lawsuits.

You investigate. But you use common sense and cut him loose when it's apparent he isn't a danger to anyone. You don't lock him up for months and threaten a decade in prison for something he typed once onto facebook. That's scary shit, man, and I can't believe anyone is actually taking the state's side on this one.

And what happens if you release him, and he actually does go out and shoot up a school?


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3

So...detain people who say dumb crap forever, because they might now go do it?

Seriously?



Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to bionicRod

said by bionicRod:

You investigate.

Exactly. We do live in a different time now, but does that really mean we turn to a system of "guilty until proven innocent"? Go look at Mexico if you want to see how that one pans out.

said by bionicRod:

That's scary shit, man, and I can't believe anyone is actually taking the state's side on this one.

The fact that there are people taking the state's side on is much more scary than anything this teen might have done.


shinjuru
Premium,Mod
join:2000-10-29
West Coast

You make it sound like The State is full of robots who are accountable to no one.



Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3

1 recommendation

They threw a dumb kid into solitary for doing dumb kid things and set bail to something unobtainable by the family. The state's accountability already took a siesta on this one.



Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA
reply to atuarre

said by atuarre:

And what happens if you release him, and he actually does go out and shoot up a school?

Why not arrest you? You have about the same chance of shooting up a school as this kid does. Why not just keep you locked up the rest of your life because, hey, if we let you roam free, anything bad you do will be on OUR HANDS right?


Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA

And fyi the government already has immunity. You can't sue the government for failing to stop a terrorist attack or whatever.

But this kid can and should sue the government for violating his Constitutional rights, wrongful arrest, and imprisoning him without probable cause, in addition to searching his house without probable cause. He has endured a lot of pain and suffering because some politicians wanted to cover their asses.



shinjuru
Premium,Mod
join:2000-10-29
West Coast

Where's the conservative and liberal media on this? Surely, Americans everywhere should be absolutely furious over this issue.



Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5
reply to Thaler

said by Thaler:

Exactly. We do live in a different time now, but does that really mean we turn to a system of "guilty until proven innocent"? Go look at Mexico if you want to see how that one pans out.

I don't know dude the shit USA is pulling off is pretty scary for you all seeing it from Mexico.
--
When on dangerous ground maneuver, when on deadly ground fight.


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3

We just want to know where all the good porn is on the internet before the terrorists do.



Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5

Then they just need to hack on Tigerlord's PC and that's it, no need to do a big mess about it.
--
When on dangerous ground maneuver, when on deadly ground fight.



Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA
reply to Ghastlyone

I just want to highlight this for comparison:

said by news :

A Boston police officer is free on $1,000 bail after police in Plymouth say they found a cache of military grade explosives in a shed at his former home.

The bomb squad responded to the home on Paddington Way, where explosives experts recovered a briefcase from a shed outside the home that had “a bandolier that contained four military-grade M203 rounds, six detonator cords with attached blasting caps and two rolls of timed fused cord connected to non-electric fixing mechanisms,” District Attorney’s office reported.

If convicted, he could face up to 27 years in prison.

»boston.cbslocal.com/2013/07/12/b···charges/

So let's compare this:

1. The cop is facing 27 years in prison.

2. The cop's bail was set at only $1,000.


shinjuru
Premium,Mod
join:2000-10-29
West Coast

Why don't you just toss Charles Manson in there to round it up?