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blixen

@teksavvy.com

TekSavvy's falling apart, who can match their old quality?

As the subject says, TekSavvy seems to be falling apart. They've had massive outages for months, often for 3-4 days in a row. Even now their "fixed" issues aren't actually properly fixed. Some of these might be on Rogers' end, but nobody would know since TekSavvy's customer service has been abysmal for a while now--you just get an "outage report"--posted to this site--that tells you nothing other than that enough people called in for them to make a ticket to Rogers about it.

On that note, who are the new guys to the market? Is there anyone serving Toronto with the same quality and low price that TekSavvy used to offer? Possibly someone who isn't sucking on the teat of the garbage known as Rogers?

resare

join:2012-11-07
Greenfield Park, QC
Electronic box. Been with them for 5 months and 0 issues so far


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Start Communicat..
I moved away from TSI 6 months ago for mostly the same reasons (on top of newer packages) to Start and have been really happy with their network quality (was a big issue for me on TSI) and their support quality.

Here's their forum:

»Start Communications

That being said, it seems TSI's biggest issue(s) right now is their non-aggregated network having capacity and stability issues. they should be finishing up the last few POIs in the next 2 months I believe. if yours is scheduled to be soon it might be worth waiting the month or so to see if that fixes things.

I'm not sure if that will fix their support issues, but maybe they won't get so many calls once their network isn't always having issues.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to blixen
Can you elaborate on the fixed issues that aren't truly fixed? Details are important when calling us out for lack of details.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


LiQuiD
BSD geek
Premium
join:2002-08-08
Anjou, QC

1 edit
I'll bite. Listed in order of which is making me look elsewhere after many years; listed from highest cause to lowest cause. To be completely honest, the main reason I haven't switched is because I'm too way busy with tons of work and a reno to deal with the change.

- Billing
- CS/knowledge issues
- Repeated long wait times that keep coming up
- Constant lag bubbles on connection, and random routing or localized connectivity issues that don't occur on other logins
- random though infrequent packet loss, but in small amounts that Tech support says "They can't open tickets for such small amounts" - and that don't occur when using other logins - suggesting it's not a physical last-mile issue, but probably a geographically localized issue not specific to my phone line.

EDIT: Clarified my suggestion on the packet loss issue - surely no one should ever assume it's an ISP-wide issue just because one connection displays packet loss

--
Windows is the virus. Linux is the vaccine, FreeBSD is the CURE


Rickkins

join:2004-04-05
Mtl, Canada
reply to blixen
I recently moved to Electronic Box, not over any issues... Teksavvy was always great for me, but ebox just offered a better deal for me at the 60meg cable level. No complaints so far.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to LiQuiD
said by LiQuiD:

I'll bite. Listed in order of which is making me look elsewhere after many years; listed from highest cause to lowest cause. To be completely honest, the main reason I haven't switched is because I'm too way busy with tons of work and a reno to deal with the change.

- Billing
- CS/knowledge issues
- Repeated long wait times that keep coming up
- Constant lag bubbles on connection, and random routing or localized connectivity issues that don't occur on other logins
- random though infrequent packet loss, but in small amounts that Tech support says "They can't open tickets for such small amounts" - and that don't occur when using other logins - suggesting it's not a last-mile issue anyway.

These are things we say are fixed, but aren't?

Not sure where to begin with that. Billing is your #1? Can you elaborate on that? What's going on there? Not many posts about that as you can see for yourself...

CSR's known issues? Such as?

Lag bubbles? Can I try to get somebody to look into your situation so I can draw my own conclusions..? Packet loss.. I'm not aware of any wide spread known loss issues..? Seems to be related to 'bubbles'.. You've tried another IISPs login? Or a Bell login?

Wait times... Yeah. »Wait times

Those hires have all been done, and we continue to add more, roughly 60 past those. Some of those are still in training... It takes time also before each are proficient.. A few months... Wait times are now lower than they were a month ago.

If you look at most posts, long wait times almost always plays a major role in the breakdown. I get it.

There's no doubt that all of this isn't pretty, I don't like it either. The only thing we can do though is to dig in. Surely you can see that we ARE digging in. Maybe we can dig differently though... I'm open to ideas on how to better improve.. Maybe things that appear simple to you, aren't so simple for various reasons.

Do you mind if I try to dig into your specific situation?
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to blixen
The problem seems to be that TekSavvy sometimes grows faster than it can hire more CSRs, so the wait times go up again. Then you catch up, and it gets better, but then there is a sales spike or something and you're behind again. Perhaps the current approach of reactively hiring to improve call times should be tweaked.
--
Latest version of CapSavvy systray usage checker: »CapSavvy v4.2 released!


LiQuiD
BSD geek
Premium
join:2002-08-08
Anjou, QC
reply to TSI Marc
Marc, I appreciate that you're trying, and I don't want to minimize that, but I'm probably not the type of customer anymore who can sit by and wait. I've become the type of person who values throwing money at problems to make them go away.

as for wait times, I haven't called lately, and it may well be resolved, you'll just have to wait to rebuild the userbase's trust in that. I've personally experienced the "call in to long waits, find out they're hiring, [fast-forward] still long wait" cycle a few times.

As for the technical issues, I'll share this: I don't like it when someone skirts all responsibility by saying things that essentially communicate "It doesn't happen often enough, so we won't deal with the problem" or "Oh you're using some custom router that I don't know about, so it must be on your end."

You're right though, the lag bubbles and occasional packet loss are likely related. They aren't important enough of an issue right now for me to assist with any investigation, and I'm able enough to know that it's useless unless I'm cooperating on my end.
--
Windows is the virus. Linux is the vaccine, FreeBSD is the CURE

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to blixen
Only issue I've had with Teksavvy thus far is the long phone support wait times.

It used to be that the wait times were never more than 5 minutes, but ever since they started offering cable service in ON, the wait times went through the roof!

Other complaint I have is the $114.99 worth of activation charges for a new dry loop in AB/BC. Just insane!!! Though I suspect this is Telus' doing.


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
reply to LiQuiD
Let him check your details. You're mentioning problems you had, at least give Marc a chance to defend TSI.


weales

join:2002-06-30
Hampton, ON
reply to blixen
I have both Tek and EB. EB support is faster due to the fact that they aren't as large as Tek (I think?) so they have a faster turn around time. Phone queues on EB are normally short but you get the odd 20 min wait. Emails from support are quick as well.

I haven't had any issues with my line from Tek for a while but my other one that's on EB has had problems for the past 2 weeks but EB support to this point has been handling the issue really good, no complaints aside from Bell being Bell.

Note, all I got out here is DSL service.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

The problem seems to be that TekSavvy sometimes grows faster than it can hire more CSRs, so the wait times go up again. Then you catch up, and it gets better, but then there is a sales spike or something and you're behind again. Perhaps the current approach of reactively hiring to improve call times should be tweaked.

This is what we are in the process of doing now... Hiring more than we need.. This is what we tried doing at the end of 2011 but then we had those stop sell problems.. This time much is different.. We have the physical space to put the new employees, we have the capacity long since ordered (since January) and we have all the sub systems in place to handle such a huge hiring push.. Between 200-250 additional hires back to back to back. The trick also was to not suffer too much in the way of diluting the level of expertise as we go through that. Although there appear to be various issues, for the most part, we seem to be doing fairly well considering everything. At least in comparison to the first time we tried it. In short, we are way way more organized that we were back then. And comparing anything to earlier periods is just apples and oranges. Not at all the same kinds of problems. The larger issues are dwarfing the details that are critical in providing a great experience.. However, you can never get to those without first tackling the large problems. It's a chicken and egg problem. Anyway.. I'm on a bit of a rant here now.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Nitra

join:2011-09-15
Montreal
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
Marc, I picked you guys up for DSL for a client I support, install was in April, small issue at the start, idiot from Bell didn't close off the order so it never activated. Quick call in and a few hours waiting issues were fully resolved.

We will be migrating another connection to you guys in the coming weeks.

I use EB/TSI/ROGERS/VIDEOTRON for our personal and business needs, I'd order my satisfaction as follows from the bottom up, Rogers dead last, videotron next, and Eb/tsi as equal at the top.

My 0.02$


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to LiQuiD
said by LiQuiD:

Marc, I appreciate that you're trying, and I don't want to minimize that, but I'm probably not the type of customer anymore who can sit by and wait. I've become the type of person who values throwing money at problems to make them go away.

as for wait times, I haven't called lately, and it may well be resolved, you'll just have to wait to rebuild the userbase's trust in that. I've personally experienced the "call in to long waits, find out they're hiring, [fast-forward] still long wait" cycle a few times.

As for the technical issues, I'll share this: I don't like it when someone skirts all responsibility by saying things that essentially communicate "It doesn't happen often enough, so we won't deal with the problem" or "Oh you're using some custom router that I don't know about, so it must be on your end."

You're right though, the lag bubbles and occasional packet loss are likely related. They aren't important enough of an issue right now for me to assist with any investigation, and I'm able enough to know that it's useless unless I'm cooperating on my end.

So, for the record, I'm not saying the wait times are solved.. It will naturally go up and down and we will have to react... I did however say that there were times where there were no wait times but that those hardly got mentioned. It's not true to say that wait times have been through the roof for two plus years. It has gone up and down. As we put in place the stop sells last year for example, we had 50 additional staff not doing anything... So for 3-4 months.. There were no wait times... And again late in 2012 and early this year, wait times were generally fairly decent.

So, we are in agreement that wait times are a problem. There is no denying that on my part..

For the technical support.. I'm not sure when that happened or who or why you were told that. Certainly, that's not how it should be if that's what it was. Was that what one tech told you or did many techs tell you this? For tech support, this year we made a major major push to get tech support where it should be. I posted about this in another thread but in general, we now have a very robust training program in place as well as a robust screening process.. We also removed hybrid CSR/TSRs and so, I would agree that out tech support had suffered a year ago but now I would say we are well on our way to having it back to where it should be... We still have some distance to go but I think it's obvious even from these threads on here that things have improved.

As for sitting by and waiting... That's fair enough. You should know though that I too have not been sitting by and waiting... We have changed and I urge you to take a new look. Regardless though, I appreciate that you can see that we are trying..

I've asked the crew to take a look at your situation either way, I hope you don't mind. I think they found your account from previous interactions... Either way, have a good long weekend. Hopefully the weather is good.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to Nitra
Thanks Nitra. There's no doubt that Ebox does a great job as well.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Nitra

join:2011-09-15
Montreal
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
said by TSI Marc:

Thanks Nitra. There's no doubt that Ebox does a great job as well.

I just wanted to make it clear that although some may be having issues a major part of those issues fall to the last mile providers. They simply don't care to service the 3rd party providers to the same degree that they do their own.
Reading other threads you'll see the same issues if you go to the Bell or Rogers forums. It's really unfortunate that the TPIA providers have little recourse when issues happen and they are the fault of the last mile.


lolzz

@start.ca
reply to TSI Marc
Customer service downfall is seemingly directly related to size of the business. I've been with Rogers, TSI, Distributel, EBox, Start and it seems to be a re-occurring pattern.

Here's a ranking of level of service and attention to detail that I've personally experienced.
Start>EBox>TSI>Distributel>Rogers

Start and Ebox are more or less on par, but Start has pretty good follow up on EVERYTHING (at least a phone call after any sort of changes). It's impossible to get to TSI and Distributel, and Roger's "support" is just a joke at best.

Marc, I know that you're trying your best at resolving issues, but telling your customers that you're trying to solve the wait issues year after year kinda gets old. I've been a satisfied customer since the good old legacy DSL days, then you guys dropped the ball for me in 09-10. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, you've lost me as a customer, possibly forever seeing how its now 2013 and these problems haven't been resolved yet.

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

1 recommendation

said by lolzz :

Customer service downfall is seemingly directly related to size of the business. I've been with Rogers, TSI, Distributel, EBox, Start and it seems to be a re-occurring pattern.

Here's a ranking of level of service and attention to detail that I've personally experienced.
Start>EBox>TSI>Distributel>Rogers

Start and Ebox are more or less on par, but Start has pretty good follow up on EVERYTHING (at least a phone call after any sort of changes). It's impossible to get to TSI and Distributel, and Roger's "support" is just a joke at best.

Marc, I know that you're trying your best at resolving issues, but telling your customers that you're trying to solve the wait issues year after year kinda gets old. I've been a satisfied customer since the good old legacy DSL days, then you guys dropped the ball for me in 09-10. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, you've lost me as a customer, possibly forever seeing how its now 2013 and these problems haven't been resolved yet.

Agreed X 9000%. There's a reason George Burger left TekSavvy and joined VMedia.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
said by geokilla:

Agreed X 9000%. There's a reason George Burger left TekSavvy and joined VMedia.

How do you know he left on bad terms? VMedia is a different company with a different focus. TSI does not want to do IPTV yet. VMedia is focused on IPTV.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to lolzz
said by lolzz :

Customer service downfall is seemingly directly related to size of the business. I've been with Rogers, TSI, Distributel, EBox, Start and it seems to be a re-occurring pattern.

Here's a ranking of level of service and attention to detail that I've personally experienced.
Start>EBox>TSI>Distributel>Rogers

Start and Ebox are more or less on par, but Start has pretty good follow up on EVERYTHING (at least a phone call after any sort of changes). It's impossible to get to TSI and Distributel, and Roger's "support" is just a joke at best.

Marc, I know that you're trying your best at resolving issues, but telling your customers that you're trying to solve the wait issues year after year kinda gets old. I've been a satisfied customer since the good old legacy DSL days, then you guys dropped the ball for me in 09-10. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, you've lost me as a customer, possibly forever seeing how its now 2013 and these problems haven't been resolved yet.

You're right. It's old. I'll do my best to get it right this time. It'll be quite the thing if we do manage to pull it off at 500+ staff though..
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


Phibian

join:2009-06-01
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to TSI Marc
Marc,

Packet loss is a well known issue at this point. 1 to 2% seems to be the norm on DSL. You guys have a "master" ticket for it. Don't tell us it isn't something you know about. If you need details I'm sure I can dig up the various threads in which the issue has been raised (and acknowledged by yourself) as well as the graphs I've got showing the issue going back to December.

While I appreciate that it may be not be your end, you must appreciate that as your customer it is getting frustrating to see no progress and even denial that the issue exists.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
said by Phibian:

Marc,

Packet loss is a well known issue at this point. 1 to 2% seems to be the norm on DSL. You guys have a "master" ticket for it. Don't tell us it isn't something you know about. If you need details I'm sure I can dig up the various threads in which the issue has been raised (and acknowledged by yourself) as well as the graphs I've got showing the issue going back to December.

While I appreciate that it may be not be your end, you must appreciate that as your customer it is getting frustrating to see no progress and even denial that the issue exists.

Ok, please find me these threads. Master tickets don't stay open for 6 months. I get reports multiple times a day, the same that are posted in the TekSavvy forum... If its not listed there, we're not working on it.

I did see threads many months ago but not since... We upgraded many things since then, I had just assumed that this was no longer an issue.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to Phibian
And, so you're saying you are seeing this problem also? Can you login with test@test with pass test and tell me what IP you get assigned please.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


Phibian

join:2009-06-01
Ottawa, ON
The most recent (with your participation) is here »Network congestion?

I'll lookup more tomorrow. Today is not the day for such things. Go party.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
Hehe sure...

I looked up your thread in the direct forum. You are on a different BAS than liquid.

We're looking into both.

Have you tried a different login? A bell login as well as a different IISPs login?

Here is another thread with a similar issue that was proved not to be unique to us.. I.e it was somewhere within bell's network.. Bell login worked fine. Ours didn't. I asked they try another IISP login.. Same problem. See page 11: »[DSL] As of the 6th, D/L stuck at 2, U/L ok. GTA? How widespread
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
Liquid, Phibian,

Here is what we see so far;

Liquid looks very clean, doesn't appear to have a problem

Success rate = 100% (9215/9215), round-trip min/avg/max = 12/17/369 ms

phibian on the other hand has some major packet loss

erx6.tor1:pppoe#ping 69.196.xx.xx 0
Sending infinite, ICMP echoes to 69.196.xx.xx, timeout = 2 sec.
!!.!!!!.!!!!!!!!.!!!.!.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.!!!!!.
Success rate = 91% (75/82), round-trip min/avg/max = 12/16/66 ms

I've checked the BAS he's connected to and it's coming up fine so it's not something between us and the BAS

Success rate = 100% (2251/2251), round-trip min/avg/max = 6/8/156 ms

I went ahead and checked his line stats and they appear fine. There might be something wrong with his DSLAM or his equipment. That's really all I can think of. It does appear to be an isolated issue though. Will need the helpdesk to dig further into this.

Both are on some very different segments btw, one in Ottawa and the other Montreal.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

bbiab

join:2004-05-26

2 edits
-


Phibian

join:2009-06-01
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to TSI Marc
Click for full size
Thanks Marc.

Some random facts:

-I've got two modems on two lines (at the same location) doing the same thing.
-I've gone through the usual steps (power cycle, isolate equipment, etc...) and it does not appear to be anything under my control.
-The issue has been present since about December 2012.
-I get 1-2% packet loss (per line) with short periods of 0% and spikes up to 10-15%.
-I've never managed to catch the issue with the test@test login but I wouldn't swear that it doesn't happen with it too.
-I don't have any other logins to test with.
-Sometimes a reconnect will get things to show 0% loss for while, but not always.
-The issue is generally cyclical (worst between 12:00 to 24:00).
-I get periods of 0% loss pretty much every day.
-Using two lines (MLPPP) in this setup is not workable as the loss is cumulative) so I'm running on a single line.
-The pattern does not match any sort of local usage on my end.

The graph above shows the basic pattern nicely.

Could it be that the remote I'm on lacks trunk capacity back to the CO? Is there any way to confirm / disprove this? Is there anything that can be done about this other than waiting for Bell to feel the urge to fix it on their own?

bbiab

join:2004-05-26
Is 1 or 2% loss generally acceptable/unavoidable?