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XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

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XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

NG vs Electric Vehicles: which will prevail?

With all the press surrounding Tesla Motors and their electric cars, I have been doing some reading on alternative fuel vehicles. I don't think anything is going to make gasoline and diesel vehicles obsolete anytime soon. That said, I'm wondering if Natural Gas will end up being the next major fuel for transportation uses.

»qz.com/96694/an-electric ··· e-might/

»www.washingtonpost.com/b ··· -change/

»www.businessweek.com/art ··· ching-on

Seems like the short-distance trucking industry and municipal transit departments would likely be the first to lead the way. And natural gas is still relatively cheap and has a ridiculous storage life. But it still shares the same basic problem as electric vehicles... lack of refueling stations out on the road. Have to say though, I'd consider a NG vehicle over electric if there were a few refueling stations around (of which I have seen one many, many miles away). Still, NG may end up being the fuel of choice over electric. As always, time will tell. Anyone have any thoughts on this one way or the other?

Anonuser
join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI

Anonuser

Member

It takes electric to pump the NG into the tank. NG is much harder to place "refueling stations" around. Special equipment etc... Permits etc... Inspections etc...
Electric, just plug it in. No special charging station needed. My Tesla plugs into a standard 120v home outlet if need be. Yes, I know it takes longer to charge on that. It can also plug into a NEMA 10-30, 14-30, 14-50, 6-50 outlets, and more adapters to come. Stuck somewhere with no power? You can plug into a standard 120v outlet. Those can be found... Everywhere, every home, every business, everywhere their is electricity.

Natural Gas is not more efficent then Gasoline. Example, you convert your gasoline vehicle to run on Natural Gas, the Natural Gas may be cheaper for now, but the consumption is the same as it would be in gas. Your vehicle gets 25mpg, it will still get 25mpg equivelent of natural gas usage. (That one I don't think I'm explaining correctly)

Availability, not everywhere HAS natural gas service. I know here in Wisconsin, once you leave a major city, it's propane. Propane and Natural gas are not compatible without major additional cost.

Emergency refueling-- Stuck on the side of the road, it's a major deal to get a Natural Gas vehicle refueled. You would need some sort of refueling truck, with a natural gas pump. I would expect not cheap. As I said earlier, electric, plug in anywhere. Even a 120v home outlet, while slow, can still give you enough power to get yourself to a higher power outlet or charging station. And, with electric, their is no excuse to run out. When my Tesla S says I have 0 miles left, that means I have 0 miles left, when it says I have 100 miles left, I have 100 miles left, likewise when it says I have 200 miles left, I have 200 miles.
Natural gas, or regular gasoline for that matter, is a guessing game. Obviously, when a natural gas tank shows 0psi left, your done, but depending on the vehicle, the cut out may be at different pressures. one vehicle my call it quits at 30psi, one at 50 etc... (Natural gas is usually stored on the vehicles at very high pressures 1000+ psi, very dangerous if ruptured).

Cost to refuel- It costs me $3 to go 230 miles in my tesla. If gas is at $4/gallon, that means my MPG Equivalent is 286 miles per gallon.
Natural Gas is equivalent cost wise of approx $1.50 per gallon. So using my tesla as example. a equivalent sized vehicle gets about 25 miles per gallon. So to go 230 miles is 9.2 gallons or just over $13. And the electric can be fueled for free at many locations or if you have solar etc... Tesla Superchargers are absolutely free for life to recharge at as well.

Maintenance, my Tesla is virtually maintenance free. No engine, no timing belts, no oil or transmission fluid changes (likewise with just about all electric cars).

Performance, electric is pure torque. All torque at 0 rpm. Even the tiny Nissan Leaf hauls ass.

Now, pros for Natural Gas...... Existing gasoline or diesel vehicles can be converted to run on it. That is why municipalities are using it for their fleets. The vehicles dont go far in a day, and can be refueled at the garage at night. So that existing 20 year old dump truck or garbage truck can be converted. In those cases, it is cheaper to convert then replace. The additional cost though for a regular car to be converted for the average home owner, can become cost prohibitive.

Sorry, thats all I have time for to type right now.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

said by Anonuser:

It takes electric to pump the NG into the tank. NG is much harder to place "refueling stations" around. Special equipment etc... Permits etc... Inspections etc...
Electric, just plug it in. No special charging station needed. My Tesla plugs into a standard 120v home outlet if need be. Yes, I know it takes longer to charge on that. It can also plug into a NEMA 10-30, 14-30, 14-50, 6-50 outlets, and more adapters to come. Stuck somewhere with no power? You can plug into a standard 120v outlet. Those can be found... Everywhere, every home, every business, everywhere their is electricity.

Natural Gas is not more efficent then Gasoline. Example, you convert your gasoline vehicle to run on Natural Gas, the Natural Gas may be cheaper for now, but the consumption is the same as it would be in gas. Your vehicle gets 25mpg, it will still get 25mpg equivelent of natural gas usage. (That one I don't think I'm explaining correctly)

Availability, not everywhere HAS natural gas service. I know here in Wisconsin, once you leave a major city, it's propane. Propane and Natural gas are not compatible without major additional cost.

Emergency refueling-- Stuck on the side of the road, it's a major deal to get a Natural Gas vehicle refueled. You would need some sort of refueling truck, with a natural gas pump. I would expect not cheap. As I said earlier, electric, plug in anywhere. Even a 120v home outlet, while slow, can still give you enough power to get yourself to a higher power outlet or charging station. And, with electric, their is no excuse to run out. When my Tesla S says I have 0 miles left, that means I have 0 miles left, when it says I have 100 miles left, I have 100 miles left, likewise when it says I have 200 miles left, I have 200 miles.
Natural gas, or regular gasoline for that matter, is a guessing game. Obviously, when a natural gas tank shows 0psi left, your done, but depending on the vehicle, the cut out may be at different pressures. one vehicle my call it quits at 30psi, one at 50 etc... (Natural gas is usually stored on the vehicles at very high pressures 1000+ psi, very dangerous if ruptured).

Cost to refuel- It costs me $3 to go 230 miles in my tesla. If gas is at $4/gallon, that means my MPG Equivalent is 286 miles per gallon.
Natural Gas is equivalent cost wise of approx $1.50 per gallon. So using my tesla as example. a equivalent sized vehicle gets about 25 miles per gallon. So to go 230 miles is 9.2 gallons or just over $13. And the electric can be fueled for free at many locations or if you have solar etc... Tesla Superchargers are absolutely free for life to recharge at as well.

Maintenance, my Tesla is virtually maintenance free. No engine, no timing belts, no oil or transmission fluid changes (likewise with just about all electric cars).

Performance, electric is pure torque. All torque at 0 rpm. Even the tiny Nissan Leaf hauls ass.

Now, pros for Natural Gas...... Existing gasoline or diesel vehicles can be converted to run on it. That is why municipalities are using it for their fleets. The vehicles dont go far in a day, and can be refueled at the garage at night. So that existing 20 year old dump truck or garbage truck can be converted. In those cases, it is cheaper to convert then replace. The additional cost though for a regular car to be converted for the average home owner, can become cost prohibitive.

Sorry, thats all I have time for to type right now.

That's quite alright, what you did post was great food for thought. You make a great case for electric over CNG. And you are right about propane over NG in the "sticks". That's why I went propane with my home... no NG available.

You've got me thinking now... hmmm

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium Member
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ

C0deZer0 to XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

to XXXXXXXXXXX1
Are there electric-based Supercars and Hypercars? Yes.

Are there any NG-based supercars and hyper-cars? ... ehhh... not really, far as I could tell.

Sad to say, the only way an alternative fuel is going to be taken seriously, is if you could make something like the next Veyron using it, and performing as well (within ~10%).
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

said by C0deZer0:

Are there electric-based Supercars and Hypercars? Yes.

Are there any NG-based supercars and hyper-cars? ... ehhh... not really, far as I could tell.

Sad to say, the only way an alternative fuel is going to be taken seriously, is if you could make something like the next Veyron using it, and performing as well (within ~10%).

For the average consumer, I agree you'd need something compelling to get people interested. But for fleet cars and trucks, I would think it comes down primarily to conversion cost, fuel availability, and fuel and maintenance costs. If CNG fits that bill better than electric, gasoline or diesel, I would think it would be adopted much more readily.

I know some truck fleets have been converted to CNG... are there any electric trucks? (Not being sarcastic)

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada

BonezX to XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

to XXXXXXXXXXX1
NG is too much hassle.
Currently electric is zero-sum compared to conventional(pretty much same amount of emissions when you take the whole thing into perspective, but it's getting better).

for trucking, Diesel electric(biodiesel derived synthetic would be optimal), they are pretty much considered the trains of the road, why not share a drive system as well.

literally the current overall best system is one that's so stupidly simple GM did it, not very well, but they tried. where you use an optimized conventional engine to drive a generator to a battery equalizer, then to the drive-train, no need to run accessories off anything but the equalization system. best part, electrical transfer is essentially loss less over such a small distance, its not 100% conversion, because your going to get thermal losses due to combustion, but you should be able to sit above the current 30% peak efficiency of a gas motor.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

2 edits

Anonymous_ to Anonuser

Premium Member

to Anonuser
said by Anonuser:

It takes electric to pump the NG into the tank. NG is much harder to place "refueling stations" around. Special equipment etc... Permits etc... Inspections etc...
Electric, just plug it in. No special charging station needed. My Tesla plugs into a standard 120v home outlet if need be. Yes, I know it takes longer to charge on that. It can also plug into a NEMA 10-30, 14-30, 14-50, 6-50 outlets, and more adapters to come. Stuck somewhere with no power? You can plug into a standard 120v outlet. Those can be found... Everywhere, every home, every business, everywhere their is electricity.

Natural Gas is not more efficent then Gasoline. Example, you convert your gasoline vehicle to run on Natural Gas, the Natural Gas may be cheaper for now, but the consumption is the same as it would be in gas. Your vehicle gets 25mpg, it will still get 25mpg equivelent of natural gas usage. (That one I don't think I'm explaining correctly)

Availability, not everywhere HAS natural gas service. I know here in Wisconsin, once you leave a major city, it's propane. Propane and Natural gas are not compatible without major additional cost.

Emergency refueling-- Stuck on the side of the road, it's a major deal to get a Natural Gas vehicle refueled. You would need some sort of refueling truck, with a natural gas pump. I would expect not cheap. As I said earlier, electric, plug in anywhere. Even a 120v home outlet, while slow, can still give you enough power to get yourself to a higher power outlet or charging station. And, with electric, their is no excuse to run out. When my Tesla S says I have 0 miles left, that means I have 0 miles left, when it says I have 100 miles left, I have 100 miles left, likewise when it says I have 200 miles left, I have 200 miles.
Natural gas, or regular gasoline for that matter, is a guessing game. Obviously, when a natural gas tank shows 0psi left, your done, but depending on the vehicle, the cut out may be at different pressures. one vehicle my call it quits at 30psi, one at 50 etc... (Natural gas is usually stored on the vehicles at very high pressures 1000+ psi, very dangerous if ruptured).

Cost to refuel- It costs me $3 to go 230 miles in my tesla. If gas is at $4/gallon, that means my MPG Equivalent is 286 miles per gallon.
Natural Gas is equivalent cost wise of approx $1.50 per gallon. So using my tesla as example. a equivalent sized vehicle gets about 25 miles per gallon. So to go 230 miles is 9.2 gallons or just over $13. And the electric can be fueled for free at many locations or if you have solar etc... Tesla Superchargers are absolutely free for life to recharge at as well.

Maintenance, my Tesla is virtually maintenance free. No engine, no timing belts, no oil or transmission fluid changes (likewise with just about all electric cars).

Performance, electric is pure torque. All torque at 0 rpm. Even the tiny Nissan Leaf hauls ass.

Now, pros for Natural Gas...... Existing gasoline or diesel vehicles can be converted to run on it. That is why municipalities are using it for their fleets. The vehicles dont go far in a day, and can be refueled at the garage at night. So that existing 20 year old dump truck or garbage truck can be converted. In those cases, it is cheaper to convert then replace. The additional cost though for a regular car to be converted for the average home owner, can become cost prohibitive.

Sorry, thats all I have time for to type right now.

can't wait tell they tax per mile for electric cars.

NO free ride.
NO exceptions for EV's

No way to avoid it since it will be tacked on to your yearly registration
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

Why can't you wait other than for the fact that you're jealous that you aren't driving an EV?

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

4 edits

Anonymous_

Premium Member

said by 67845017:

Why can't you wait other than for the fact that you're jealous that you aren't driving an EV?

No I don't care about EV.

BUT EV owners need to pay a fair share too.

No Exceptions....

also EV is actually a old tech from the late 1890s So it's been around a LONG time

Over the life of the car Gas power is still cheaper

$80,000 for the initial buying of your car. (tax,lic,reg and Loan Interest rate)
solar build out $5,000-10,000.

Your not going to want to use grid power (since your CAR Emissions WILL be higher since your local power co probably uses coal,gas or nuclear )

Do not say Nuclear is clean since it's not.
There is a "waste" that is still radio active for thousands of years

The only clean way is solar,water turbine or wind turbine. These more then make up for the waste they make to make them.
mob (banned)
On the next level..
join:2000-10-07
San Jose, CA

1 recommendation

mob (banned)

Member

You're grasping at straws...poorly.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Metronet

CylonRed to XXXXXXXXXXX1

MVM

to XXXXXXXXXXX1
quote:
are there any electric trucks? (Not being sarcastic)
»ir.navistar.com/released ··· D=412470

All-Electric Truck Unveiled on Capitol Hill
Navistar Developing Clean Transportation Technologies, Generating Jobs

WASHINGTON, Sep 30, 2009 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Members of Congress today were shown an early result of federal stimulus investments paying dividends - an all-electric commercial truck from Navistar, Inc. that does not depend on foreign oil, is already generating jobs, and offers real potential to usher in a new wave of U.S.-led clean vehicle technologies.

With the help of a $39 million U.S. Department of Energy grant announced by President Obama in August, Navistar will build these high technology trucks, designed for maximum efficiency in urban environments. Navistar intends to build 400 all-electric delivery trucks in 2010 at its facility in Elkhart County, Indiana, and expects within a few years to be producing several thousand vehicles annually as the market grows.

"At a time when the economy is struggling, supporting breakthrough technologies like Navistar's all-electric truck will create jobs for our state and help free us from our dependency on energy imports," said Senator Evan Bayh (D-IN). "I was proud to accompany President Obama to Wakarusa, Indiana, in August to announce the federal commitment to build this all-electric vehicle in Elkhart County. Indiana continues to be a leader in the development and production of advanced technologies that will provide important benefits to the entire nation. Hoosiers have been at the epicenter of today's automotive industry, and this technology gives us an opportunity to be at the forefront of tomorrow's as well."

»www.estar-ev.com/

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

aurgathor to XXXXXXXXXXX1

Member

to XXXXXXXXXXX1
said by XXXXXXXXXXX1:

I know some truck fleets have been converted to CNG... are there any electric trucks? (Not being sarcastic)

There are a few electric trucks for local deliveries, mostly part of pilot projects. However, unless battery technology suddenly gets a lot better, I don't think there will be very many electric trucks in the near future, except in rare cases where zero emission is a must.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

CylonRed

MVM

International also has or had a hybrid truck used to power companies.

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada

BonezX to Anonymous_

Premium Member

to Anonymous_
here's the thing, money isn't being spent to expand or advance infrastructure, it's being sucked up into other things that none of us plebeians know about or will benefit from. if there was as much money spent on solar as there are on wind-farms(which rarely output their rated capacity) more research would be put into the materials.

Thorium based nuclear reactors are considerably better then uranium based ones(only reason uranium/plutonium was focused on was weapons potential)

»www.smartplanet.com/blog ··· gy/17893
»gizmodo.com/this-thorium ··· 49185119
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to XXXXXXXXXXX1

Premium Member

to XXXXXXXXXXX1
Electric is far easier to deploy, There is not a place in the US that has recordable population without electricity. There are plenty of places in the US without piped NG. for a filling station to use NG it would need a supply from somewhere.

THe Tesla supercharger stations just need access to the electric grid.

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada

BonezX

Premium Member

said by Kearnstd:

Electric is far easier to deploy, There is not a place in the US that has recordable population without electricity. There are plenty of places in the US without piped NG. for a filling station to use NG it would need a supply from somewhere.

THe Tesla supercharger stations just need access to the electric grid.

most of the issues arrive from the electric infrastructure itself though, there are a considerable amount of coal plants out there still burning away that the owners won't upgrade because it cuts into profits, or someone else won't pay for it for them.

converting coal to NG would be easier and cut down emissions a good amount, being that the generators can run more elaborate exhaust treatments.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

the greatest challenge in getting power generation off coal is also that countries like the US and China have shitloads of the stuff. The US alone is looking at over two centuries worth of remaining supply. That is very attractive to political creatures when touting energy independence from the Middle East.

BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium Member
join:2004-04-13
Canada

BonezX

Premium Member

coal is a neat little thing, you can refine it down to Diesel.
»www.technologyreview.com ··· om-coal/
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fi ··· _process

put the power plants on NG, it is literally the best place for it's use due to how power plants operate(steam turbine generation), could even convert plants over to burn iso-butane which is actually an awesome little fuel, mind you a little on the unstable side.

convert coal stocks to synthetic diesel, and convert ICE direct drive over to diesel generation electric drive, Mazda(yea i know i keep mentioning them, but they have some really neat stuff) has a low compression diesel that doesn't require after exhaust treatment, diesel generators are more or less 50% efficient, why not exploit that by using better designed generators and better refined fuels(coal/bio/syn diesel)

through the same process of coal-diesel you can do coal-gas as well. which is much better then trying to supplement ethanol which is an absolutely terrible fuel source.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

2 edits

Anonymous_ to Anonuser

Premium Member

to Anonuser
said by Anonuser:

It takes electric to pump the NG into the tank. NG is much harder to place "refueling stations" around. Special equipment etc... Permits etc... Inspections etc...
Electric, just plug it in. No special charging station needed. My Tesla plugs into a standard 120v home outlet if need be. Yes, I know it takes longer to charge on that. It can also plug into a NEMA 10-30, 14-30, 14-50, 6-50 outlets, and more adapters to come. Stuck somewhere with no power? You can plug into a standard 120v outlet. Those can be found... Everywhere, every home, every business, everywhere their is electricity.

Sure but you will be sitting around for while, 4-5 hours?? *yawns*. Also be sure to get permission to use it also or you will be going to jail for theft of services.

Don't drop the soap. other wise you'll be taking one for the home team.

Also the biggest issue IS even higher Electric rates for all. EV's will cause rates increases for all. I think special "smart car meter" should be required, this way EV can pay a FAIR share of " road usage tax".. also with the smart meters they can watch current draw to catch cheaters. no way you can pull 40 amps for several hours this would be abnormal for homes.

please no "I'm running the A/C" the current draw changes often enough not to flag you. Large fines for cheater, as to discourage cheaters. and annual mileage reporting to the DMV requirement for cheaters that were caught.
mob (banned)
On the next level..
join:2000-10-07
San Jose, CA

1 recommendation

mob (banned)

Member

said by Anonymous_:

said by Anonuser:

It takes electric to pump the NG into the tank. NG is much harder to place "refueling stations" around. Special equipment etc... Permits etc... Inspections etc...
Electric, just plug it in. No special charging station needed. My Tesla plugs into a standard 120v home outlet if need be. Yes, I know it takes longer to charge on that. It can also plug into a NEMA 10-30, 14-30, 14-50, 6-50 outlets, and more adapters to come. Stuck somewhere with no power? You can plug into a standard 120v outlet. Those can be found... Everywhere, every home, every business, everywhere their is electricity.

Sure but you will be sitting around for while, 4-5 hours?? *yawns*. Also be sure to get permission to use it also or you will be going to jail for theft of services.

Don't drop the soap. other wise you'll be taking one for the home team.

Also the biggest issue IS even higher Electric rates for all. EV's will cause rates increases for all. I think special "smart car meter" should be required, this way EV can pay a FAIR share of " road usage tax".. also with the smart meters they can watch current draw to catch cheaters. no way you can pull 40 amps for several hours this would be abnormal for homes.

please no "I'm running the A/C" the current draw changes often enough not to flag you. Large fines for cheater, as to discourage cheaters. and annual mileage reporting to the DMV requirement for cheaters that were caught.

Tesla supercharging stations are free, I believe. And it will take about an hour - nothing that can't be dealt with. That's enough time to eat, stretch your legs, go to the bathroom, etc.

As for the rest of the post - it doesn't make sense.

Higher rates on electricity? Anal rape? TOU billing? Road taxes? Smart car meters? WTF?

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

Anonymous_

Premium Member

Road infrastructure is not free to maintain. A use or toll tax should be applied to EV's as well.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

2 recommendations

67845017 (banned)

Member

You need to go back to the horse and buggy days. Although, I suppose, a horse-shit collection tax would then have to be levied.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

2 edits

Anonymous_

Premium Member

said by 67845017:

You need to go back to the horse and buggy days. Although, I suppose, a horse-shit collection tax would then have to be levied.

Owner is reasonable for cleaning up the shit. (just like you have to clean up after your dog.)
Yes but a cars, large truck causes more damage to the Road infrastructure. compared to a horse and buggy.

for a example one block away one there is a trucker that brings up a big rig and has sustained heavily damage to the road. The road was not designed for a 80,000 pound truck. over 1000 pot holes have been filled so far on this street. (it only about 5 years old) and it localized right in front of this house. and were the rig has appear to have been driven.

Enough complaints have been logged and they do plan to dig 2 inches and repave with fresh asphalt.

We no longer need to even call them to fill the pot holes they come out regularly now to fill them at lest once per week to fill 5-10 pot holes sometimes upto 20 pot holes after it rains

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

Cho Baka to 67845017

MVM

to 67845017
said by 67845017:

Although, I suppose, a horse-shit collection tax would then have to be levied.

mob would be bankrupted.
mob (banned)
On the next level..
join:2000-10-07
San Jose, CA

1 edit

mob (banned)

Member

said by Cho Baka:

said by 67845017:

Although, I suppose, a horse-shit collection tax would then have to be levied.

mob would be bankrupted.

I will have you know that my car can pass an emissions test.

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

Cho Baka

MVM

ah, your car...

Vchat20
Landing is the REAL challenge
Premium Member
join:2003-09-16
Columbus, OH

Vchat20 to Anonymous_

Premium Member

to Anonymous_
said by Anonymous_:

said by 67845017:

You need to go back to the horse and buggy days. Although, I suppose, a horse-shit collection tax would then have to be levied.

Owner is reasonable for cleaning up the shit. (just like you have to clean up after your dog.)
Yes but a cars, large truck causes more damage to the Road infrastructure. compared to a horse and buggy.

for a example one block away one there is a trucker that brings up a big rig and has sustained heavily damage to the road. The road was not designed for a 80,000 pound truck. over 1000 pot holes have been filled so far on this street. (it only about 5 years old) and it localized right in front of this house. and were the rig has appear to have been driven.

Enough complaints have been logged and they do plan to dig 2 inches and repave with fresh asphalt.

We no longer need to even call them to fill the pot holes they come out regularly now to fill them at lest once per week to fill 5-10 pot holes sometimes upto 20 pot holes after it rains

Then they should repave the roads correctly the first time. We have a major roadway here that sees its fair share of truck traffic that was recently repaved prior to last winter season. Mind you in this region we have every type of weather: Snow, ice, rain, extremely hot sun beating down on the roadway. There has not been a single defect show up yet in nearly the whole span (I don't travel the full span, but roughly ~5 miles worth of it). Smooth as butter. In fact I hate NOT being able to drive on it because in a car that is otherwise quiet on its own, the road noise completely disappears and makes it worth dealing with the traffic.

I understand this is probably a fluke but I have found in my driving career that roads with the worst reliability in terms of potholes and cracks have often been due in some part to laziness when it came to the paving job. That or it hasn't been repaved at all in a few decades.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

CylonRed

MVM

That must be 670...

Vchat20
Landing is the REAL challenge
Premium Member
join:2003-09-16
Columbus, OH

Vchat20

Premium Member

23 actually. Just a bit north of 270. I believe it is repaved all the way into Delaware. I work in the area so commute on 23 daily. Road noise, literally, is non-existant.