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sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939 to 54067323

Premium Member

to 54067323

Re: Circuit Short

said by 54067323:

said by sk1939:

Low ohm reading, but the outlets are inaccessible and will be for a couple days probably.

There is no where else you can split it?

Not between the breaker and outlet 4.
54067323 (banned)
join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL

54067323 (banned)

Member

said by sk1939:

Not between the breaker and outlet 4.

Then open it there, hell it branches out to two from there so why not?

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939

Premium Member

said by 54067323:

said by sk1939:

Not between the breaker and outlet 4.

Then open it there, hell it branches out to two from there so why not?

I already know the short is between those two points, the problem is where between those two points. There is about 125 feet of romex between those two points.

StillLearn
Premium Member
join:2002-03-21
Streamwood, IL

StillLearn to sk1939

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to sk1939
Click for full size
Kluge test setup
For better or worse, here is an attempt at describe putting a current limiting load in series with the breaker output for careful temporary testing. Then read millivolts at outlets.

Be sure to cover conductors with electrical tape before turning the breaker on.

Raphion
join:2000-10-14
Samsara

Raphion to sk1939

Member

to sk1939
said by sk1939:

said by 54067323:

said by sk1939:

Not between the breaker and outlet 4.

Then open it there, hell it branches out to two from there so why not?

I already know the short is between those two points, the problem is where between those two points. There is about 125 feet of romex between those two points.

The distance is irrelevant. If you haven't driven a nail or screw into the romex, the short is going to be at a junction box, outlet, or switch box. Well, unless someone put a splice in the wall and covered it up, a big nonono.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939

Premium Member

said by Raphion:

The distance is irrelevant. If you haven't driven a nail or screw into the romex, the short is going to be at a junction box, outlet, or switch box. Well, unless someone put a splice in the wall and covered it up, a big nonono.

Given some of the creative wiring, that is a possibility (buried splice). The light at the end of the run for example, is 14 gauge romex that goes through the wall, outside, up 16 feet, and pigtailed to the floodlight in the back without a box. I would fix it, but it's on the very edge of the roof, about 25 feet off the ground, and I'm terrified of heights.

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6 to Raphion

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to Raphion
said by Raphion:

The distance is irrelevant. If you haven't driven a nail or screw into the romex, the short is going to be at a junction box, outlet, or switch box. Well, unless someone put a splice in the wall and covered it up, a big nonono.

House settling can push a nail or staple in the cable, or otherwise pinch the cable to cause a short.

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold

MVM

Rodents chewing on cable is another option that sometimes causes short circuits.

From what I read so far, it sounds sk1939 See Profile will have to move some boxes in the near future. Hopefully that is all it will take, sometimes these things require holes in walls or ceilings.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

1 edit

sk1939

Premium Member

said by leibold:

Rodents chewing on cable is another option that sometimes causes short circuits.

From what I read so far, it sounds sk1939 See Profile will have to move some boxes in the near future. Hopefully that is all it will take, sometimes these things require holes in walls or ceilings.

At least whoever "finished" the basement was cheap and didn't use insulation in any great amount (one thin bat at best) if at all, so there should be nothing behind the paneling. The problem lies in getting the paneling off should it come to that. The other problem is getting to the only lightbulb (forgot about it) on the circuit. It's in the closet and is the bakelite version of this:



Edit: I also found a 250V 15A outlet that dosen't seem to be fed by anything (I have no double pole 15A breakers). I have not tested it to see if it's live, or to see what the voltage is, but it's still strange regardless.
JoelC707
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL

JoelC707

Premium Member

Regarding that mysterious 240V outlet. They may have simply fed it with a double pole 20A breaker, got any of those in the panel you haven't identified their purpose yet? Or worse yet, two 15A single pole breakers that aren't tied together and haven't been identified? Of course it could just be abandoned and dead.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

1 edit

sk1939

Premium Member

said by JoelC707:

Regarding that mysterious 240V outlet. They may have simply fed it with a double pole 20A breaker, got any of those in the panel you haven't identified their purpose yet? Or worse yet, two 15A single pole breakers that aren't tied together and haven't been identified? Of course it could just be abandoned and dead.

Nope. There are only 18 spaces in this panel, 8 of which are taken by 240V double pole breakers. The rest are under the 50A "Lighting Main" breaker (it is a split-bus panel). There was a 30A breaker for a long-gone clothes dryer, but it was in the wrong spot (under the lighting main) and has been replaced with 2 20A breakers that feed the outlet next to the box (other dosen't go anywhere).

The rest are known circuits (as known as can be with a 50 year old house). I'm assuming it's abandoned and dead, but I can't find the wire from the box that would have fed it in the first place, unless someone got cute and it's just a standard 120V grounded outlet with the wrong plug.

Edit: This house is great electrical fun. Three breakers (2 20A 1 15A) feed (literally!) a total of 6 outlets, all in the same room and roughly 15 feet between the first and last. However, two of the other breakers (both 15A) turns off most of my upstairs (living room, dining room, foyer, bedroom/office and workshop light, 1/2 bath, hall lights, smoke detectors, main bath lights, both remaining bedrooms).

Raphion
join:2000-10-14
Samsara

Raphion to John Galt6

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to John Galt6
said by John Galt6:

said by Raphion:

The distance is irrelevant. If you haven't driven a nail or screw into the romex, the short is going to be at a junction box, outlet, or switch box. Well, unless someone put a splice in the wall and covered it up, a big nonono.

House settling can push a nail or staple in the cable, or otherwise pinch the cable to cause a short.

That's an interesting possibility. I hadn't thought of that. Still, the first place to look is in the boxes. Then if it's not there, check the in wall runs individually, since they're now nicely isolated.

No need to worry about problems inside the walls, when we haven't even checked the connections to the outlets yet. That's just jumping to worst case conclusions, like a hypochondriac with a little twinge of pain in his chest thinking he's having a heart attack.

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6

Premium Member

said by Raphion:

That's just jumping to worst case conclusions, like a hypochondriac with a little twinge of pain in his chest thinking he's having a heart attack.

Actually, it's the experience gained from wiring thousands of houses and spending ~10 years doing electrical service work and figuring out things like this.

Perhaps you and the OP can get those boxes opened up, eh?