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dctapeworm

join:2004-02-04
Woodinville, WA

[Other] Obi110 & 2Wire HGV 3801 - Will Obi110 work on a subnet?

Hi there,

This is related to another DSLReports thread that I'm closing in a moment. For now, I wanted to put this question out there.

I have a Obi110 hooked via ethernet into a 2Wire HGV 3801 router, and it works perfectly, no problems. But, I'm getting that dreaded 'router behind router' message from the 2Wire, and unless I put the Obi110 in a DMZ area (which I'm not going to), all the nodes in my home network won't get a DHCP address from the 2Wire until the problem is resolved.

SO, I've been thinking about a couple of options:
- Putting the Obi110 on a subnet (i.e. setting a static IP for the Obi110 as 192.168.2.1), keeping the subnet mask and gateway the same (note: this worked previously for a Linksys WRT54GL router when I was attempting to flood the whole house with wireless signal).
- Trying port forwarding as some have suggested here, but I don't think that's going to resolve the issue.

Can anyone give some perspective on the above?

JeanInNepean

join:2012-09-19
Nepean, ON

Re: [Other] Obi110 & 2Wire HGV 3801 - Will Obi110 work on a subn

There shouldn't be any issue putting a router behind another one. Not sure what the 2Wire is complaining about. Have you tried putting the obi110 in bridge mode?


Trev
IP Telephony Addict
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC
kudos:6
The 110 doesn't have a built in router. It's just a normal network device like a PC or a printer...

dctapeworm

join:2004-02-04
Woodinville, WA
Hi Trev,

That's what I thought as well. The problem is that the 2Wire is specifically calling out the Obi110 as having a 'router behind router' conflict (when I temporarily place the Obi110 in a DMZ zone, it shows that result).

- R

dctapeworm

join:2004-02-04
Woodinville, WA
reply to JeanInNepean
Hi JeanInNepean,

I can certainly try that. Is there an online reference/URL I should look at for the Obi110 that explains how to do that?

- Tapey

dctapeworm

join:2004-02-04
Woodinville, WA
reply to dctapeworm
For visual reference, here's an imgur album with all related images:
»imgur.com/a/04Ajk#0

- Tapey

dctapeworm

join:2004-02-04
Woodinville, WA
reply to dctapeworm
I have some updates on a couple of approaches I tried. Both didn't work unfortunately.

I went in and tried two static ip changes. The first time, I changed the Obi110 to a static IP assignment outside the DHCP range of the 2Wire. After submitting changes, the 2Wire still recognizes it as a router behind a router, but in a non-DHCP managed IP assignment. That message came up again when I attempted to change the DHCP IP range on the 2Wire (it still recognized the static IP of the Obi and said no way hosay).

Next, I tried putting the Obi110 on a subnet address (192.168.2.1) and it went dark. Could not access it from ObiTalk, the 2Wire, or a direct ethernet connection (crossover or regular). I performed the factory reset instructions on the Obihai site, got it back up and running, tested calls, and all is well.

In summary:
- The Obi110 did not like being put on a subnet. I had to factory reset/reconfigure to get it to work.
- The static IP option outside the DHCP range did not work either. The 2Wire still recognized it as a router behind a router.

Anyone have any suggestions? I think I may just have to put it in a DMZ zone to make it play nice with the 2Wire.

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California
kudos:2
reply to dctapeworm
said by dctapeworm:

But, I'm getting that dreaded 'router behind router' message from the 2Wire, and unless I put the Obi110 in a DMZ area (which I'm not going to), all the nodes in my home network won't get a DHCP address from the 2Wire until the problem is resolved.

Using an old wireless router (the 802.11b buried in the closet) may be a solution.

Prior to hooking up the old router to the HGV 3801, disconnect one of your PCs from the HGV 3801, connect it to the old router, clone the PC's MAC address, and disable the wireless radio if you don't need it.

Attach the OBi110 to the old router.

JeanInNepean

join:2012-09-19
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy TekTalk
·voip.ms
·Primus Talkbroad..

1 recommendation

reply to dctapeworm
Hummm. My bad. I thought the obi110 had a router built-in.

I've searched Google and found the following snippet regarding reouter behind router on the 2Wire...

quote:
You can disable this by going to MDC-> local network configuration or via the following URL home/xslt?PAGE=J09

uncheck the router on router option at the bottom of the page.

dctapeworm

join:2004-02-04
Woodinville, WA
Hi JeanInNepean,

No worries. I figure it's my responsibility to do due diligence and get this think fixed. I'm just glad you replied.

And thanks for that link. That does solve the problem of the 'router behind router' message, but it effectively stops the 2Wire from handing out DHCP addresses to the rest of the network (including any subnets), AND prevents any other DHCP distribution by a connected router (or at least that was the case with the Linksys 54WRTLG I have).

- Tapey

dctapeworm

join:2004-02-04
Woodinville, WA

3 edits
reply to SCADAGeo
Hi SCADAGeo,

That gives me an idea. I originally was going to hook up a e1200 linksys n-router for better wireless speeds, and I'm thinking I could potentially do this:

2Wire (Wireless Off, DHCP Off, NAT off) -> e1200 Linksys (Static IP, Wireless On, DHCP, NAT enabled) -> Obi110 and rest of home network hooked in

Since I don't have TV or phone service and just internet, I don't have any DVR's to worry about, and the above config may slide.

Do you think that would work?

Note: For reference, I did the Googles and found a related thread that turns the 2Wire into a bridge (though puts it in DMZ plus mode):
»forums.att.com/t5/Residential-Ga···755#M182

Dan_voip

join:2007-01-03
Saint-Hubert, QC
kudos:4
Leave the 2Wire with the default settings, just disable wireless, change the Linksys WAN to PPPoE and use your ISP credentials.
Should work like that no need to put 2 Wire in bridge mode.

dctapeworm

join:2004-02-04
Woodinville, WA
Hi Dan_voip,

Thanks for the reply! For the phrase " change the Linksys WAN to PPPoE and use your ISP credentials", could you point me to a related link that describes what you're talking about?

Update:
It looks like putting the Obi110 in DMZPlus kills any in/out calling functionality. I just put it back behind the firewall with a DHCP address but 'router behind router' message turned off, and it works fine. Bordering on the bizarre...

My next step is to try to get the 2Wire into bridge mode with the e1200 being the proper router. The e1200 however hasn't been playing nice (and getting a DHCP address when connecting to the 2Wire).

As always, appreciate any replies!

Dan_voip

join:2007-01-03
Saint-Hubert, QC
kudos:4
Here is what I'm talking about.
The menu for E1200 might be a bit different but that's the idea, change it from DHCP to PPPoE.

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California
kudos:2
reply to dctapeworm
said by dctapeworm:

2Wire (Wireless Off, DHCP Off, NAT off) -> e1200 Linksys (Static IP, Wireless On, DHCP, NAT enabled) -> Obi110 and rest of home network hooked in

Since I don't have TV or phone service and just internet, I don't have any DVR's to worry about, and the above config may slide.

Do you think that would work?

I'm guessing the 2Wire was configured with:
Wireless On
DHCP On
NAT On

In this example, WorkingComputer1 has a mac address of 00:00:00:00:00:01.

I would clone WorkingComputer1's mac.

The e1200 will change its mac address to 00:00:00:00:00:01 when rebooted.

The 2Wire will believe that the e1200 is now WorkingComputer1, because the e1200 has assumed WorkingComputer1's identity (mac address).

When the Obi110 is plugged into the e1200 and goes online, functionally it would be the same as running a software phone on WorkingComputer1.


Hagar

join:2004-10-31
Sunnyvale, CA
reply to dctapeworm
I have a similar setup, this is what worked for me.

I have a 2Wire 3800
I put my Netgear3800 (running CreoWrt) in the DMZ plus zone
Obi110 behind the Netgear, did not have to open any ports or do any port forwarding.

dctapeworm

join:2004-02-04
Woodinville, WA
Hi redholm, SCADAGeo and Dan_voip,

You'll never guess what happened... I found out what the *real* problem was (and arguably, it could be me).

It was actually three things... all HARDWARE related:
- The firmware on the e1200 wasn't updated. It was using an older firmware version that had a conflict with proprietary routers like the 2Wire.
- The new gigabit switch I had planned on managing several devices on the ground floor was DOA out of the box.
- The CAT5 wire going from the 2Wire to the home network node was faulty.

Once I updated the e1200, tossed the switch (in favor of plugging ethernet directly into the routers themselves) and replaced the CAT5, I did the easiest option of everything I've been trying. I opted to make both the e1200 and the WRT54GL that I had as access points, and uncheck the 'router behind router' warning on the 2wire.

Everything is lighting up like a green and yellow Christmas tree. Nodes are active, and even the Blu-Ray players are wired in.

SO after all of that, it was a firmware upgrade, a crappy GreenNET switch and a faulty cable that were the main culprits. Geez.

Hope it was entertaining for you as it was frustrating for me (and irritating for my better half).

Appreciate all the advice and help you gave while I was slowly doing that hardware purge. Hopefully it can help someone else who sees/finds this thread in the future.

- Tapey


Hagar

join:2004-10-31
Sunnyvale, CA
It is always extra difficult when you have multiple bad things going on at the same time.

Happy that you figured it out and thank you for the update.

SCADAGeo

join:2012-11-08
N California
kudos:2
said by Hagar:

Happy that you figured it out and thank you for the update.

+1