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fartness
computersoc dot com
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Look Outside

Appx. hours of labor?

I have a few things I need for an electrician to do. Can someone give approximate hours of labor that these things would take? I want to make sure I'm getting a fair price.

1. I have a motion detector security light that barely works anymore. I want it replaced. I already bought one, just need it switched out.

2. I need some sort of caulking put into the line from outside where the meter is to where my basement is at the electrical panel. There has been some water infiltration and I've been told I need caulking but I'd like the correct terminology on what needs to be caulked so I don't get taken for a ride. What exactly should I be asking for? There's a past thread on this somewhere.

3. Assuming the water has ruined my breaker box and I need a new one (breaker box inside my basement has a line running outside to the meter, that line is what I'm describing in number 2 above), is $1200 a good price for a new breaker box with permits? I'm not sure if it's 200AMP or not. I currently have a 100AMP service right now.

4. Hours/labor cost to install the electrical for an outside 802.11g camera?


nunya
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Not really. Too many variables.

Around here, $1200 is just on the high side for a "run-of-the-mill" panel change. Not out of the ballpark.

Don't waste your time running power to a wireless camera.
Hardwire it with cat5, use PoE.
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John Galt
Forward, March
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reply to fartness
Photos would help...


fartness
computersoc dot com
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reply to nunya
I've never used PoE before, any advice to get started?


fartness
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reply to fartness
Pics were posted in this thread back 9 months ago. Never really answered any of my questions.
»Water by circuit breaker


John Galt
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reply to fartness
The panel changeout looks pretty straightforward. Most of the 'costly' issues are in moving the branch circuits, and yours doesn't have those issues (in the wall with circuits feeding from every which way, etc). Is the $1,200 a quoted price?

Caulking the feedthrough should be part of the panel changeout...

Light changeout = 1/2 hr.

If you can terminate Cat5, PoE is no issue. The camera is powered by a small transformer that feeds power on the unused pairs of the Cat5 to the camera. Think 'power inserter', which is what it is.

Example:

»fe.gd/B6S
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fartness
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Don't they sell PoE equipment that I can just plug the ethernet cable into the camera, and then plug the other end into the POE device? I haven't read about PoE in years but I remember some wires in a cat 5 can be used as power, which is especially useful in an environment that has no electricity readily available. Or does that box you linked do the same thing? Or do I have to manually cut the cables, etc.?

I've made cat 5 cables back in college, but I'd have to buy the equipment to add the connectors or whatever is needed. It's been awhile. I have no tested either.

If I don't need my box replaced, and I just need caulk, what exactly should I ask for? Places might give free estimates, but I'm sure they *all* will say to replace the box, even if it's not needed.

$1200 seems the going rate around here for a new panel as per Angie's List reviews for a few local companies.


John97
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This will handle your PoE power:

»www.monoprice.com/products/produ···format=2

You can buy anything you'd need in terms of cabling from the same place. They're a great source for this stuff. Just get premade cables for whatever lengths you need. They have outdoor-rated cable as well. It should be really easy to get it going.
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fartness
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1 edit
So will it basically be this:
Camera -> ethernet cable -> POE device -> wall outlet in convenient spot of my choosing?

Then the rest can be wireless or plug another ethernet cable into that box which would then connect to my router?

Do all outdoor cameras with ethernet/802.11g capabilities have the capability for PoE?

A lot of cameras I looked at have wired ethernet capabilities, and they also have DC power. Would the DC adapter just not be used?


nunya
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No. Buy an outdoor rated camera with poe capability.


fartness
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Any recommendations?

Is this PoE?
»www.amazon.com/Sharx-Security-SC···cnc+3605


leibold
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reply to nunya
said by nunya:

Buy an outdoor rated camera with poe capability.

Do you have any recommendations (brand/model) for outdoor poe cameras ?

At the local electronic store I see a large variety of security cameras that vary in price and features (consumer grade) but nothing that looks like quality products until you get to the $500 and above price range (for a single camera!).
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leibold
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reply to fartness
Apparently not
said by Product Description :

The required 12 VDC / 1A power is supplied by the included international standard 100-240V AC adapter.


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John Galt
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reply to fartness
said by fartness:

Any recommendations?

Is this PoE?
»www.amazon.com/Sharx-Security-SC···cnc+3605

Use this:

»www.amazon.com/AIR802-POEPASS-01···03DLJNWE
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nunya
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reply to fartness
Here's a PoE version. What are you wanting to watch? If you are just starting out building a system, I'd get some cheapass Foscam cameras first. They can always be moved to cover other areas later.
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fartness
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I want one in my front yard and one in my back yard. Would I buy a PoE adapter for each camera I buy? I want to record either to a card on the device (it will be high enough) and/or to a DVR either in my house and/or remotely.

PS. I don't see a link.


leibold
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Foscam is a manufacturer and some of their products have POE.
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fartness
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This says it's an indoor camera, but I thought the night vision is useless behind glass?
»www.amazon.com/Foscam-FI8910W-Ne···+outdoor

What's a decent foscam to buy? I had one in my bookmarks, amongst the hundreds of other things in there.

robbin
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You want an outdoor camera if it is going to be outdoors and one that has POE if you want that feature. Something like this perhaps

»www.amazon.com/Foscam-FI8905E-Et···08PEUNUU


leibold
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The camera robbin See Profile linked to has the same model number that I just ordered but appears to have a different lens. The difference is either a 4mm lens with 42 degree viewing angle (which is what I ordered) or the 6mm lens with 25 degree viewing angle.
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bryank

join:2000-03-23
Plainfield, IL
reply to fartness
I actually just got this from BestBuy for $199, they are on clearance, so it could be hard to find at that price. But it's been up and running for a few days and we like it. Comes with EVERYTHING you need including the POE supply and a powerline kit. So I installed this in on my garage, plugged in the supplied ethernet cable to the POE/Powerline device. Then near my computer plugged in the other end of the powerline device to my router, installed the software, and I was up and running. Literally 30 minute install...

»www.amazon.com/Logitech-Outdoor-···ech+750e


fartness
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reply to robbin
said by robbin:

You want an outdoor camera if it is going to be outdoors and one that has POE if you want that feature. Something like this perhaps

»www.amazon.com/Foscam-FI8905E-Et···08PEUNUU

That looks decent, I'll buy one for front, and one for detached garage (back). If the range isn't good enough, I'll buy a third to put on the rear of the house. At least everything I care about will be covered.

So if I buy 3 cameras, I need three of these?

robbin
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Check the angle of view for your mounting locations before deciding on a certain camera. You may need a different lens.


fartness
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How? I don't understand the difference that leibold posted.

Is that camera you linked 802.11g also? I see a wireless antenna on it but no mention of it. Can I power it with PoE and then connect and record using 802.11g?

robbin
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You have to look at the degrees of viewing angle. That tells you how wide angle or telephoto the camera is. Absolutely no reason to power with POE and then use wireless. You have already run the wire -- use it. Wired is always better that wireless.


leibold
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reply to fartness
said by fartness:

So if I buy 3 cameras, I need three of these?

Depends. Three of those would certainly work. That may be the way to if you have cameras on opposite ends of the house and don't want to run dedicated Ethernet cables over the full length of the home.

However if you bring the Ethernet cable from each of those cameras to the same place in the home then you can use a single POE switch instead (I have an 8-port switch where 4 ports are POE enabled).
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fartness
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reply to fartness
So I can't just plug the other end into my router? I have to buy a dedicated PoE switch which plugs into my router?

It seems easier to power them using PoE (and plugged the AC adapter into a convenient spot), rather than running an extra cat5 cable to my wired router on my 2nd floor. The basement would likely be the staging area. I even think there's conduit from my garage since it has electricity and is detached that I could use to get back to the house (maybe 30 to 50 feet away, too lazy to measure right now). That's all why powering with PoE due to lack of outlets seems easier and using 802.11g for the wireless. I could upgrade to an n router if I ever need my devices not slowed down (only my cellphone and work laptop use my 802.11a/g, neither of which I use much).


leibold
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reply to fartness
said by fartness:

How? I don't understand the difference that leibold posted.

Most security cameras are fixed focus, meaning that they don't have a zoom lens that would let you zoom out (wide angle) to see the whole width of your property and then zoom in to get a good look at that suspicious guy standing at the edge of the driveway. While there is digital zoom that can partially make up for the lack of an optical zoom lens, the resolution of those cameras isn't high enough to get any detail when zooming in.

For an inexpensive fixed focus security camera it is therefore important to select a model with the right viewing angle: wide angle gives more coverage of the property but less detail and typically less useful distance while a tele lens will provide greater detail even at longer distances while omitting things that are outside of the narrower viewing angle).

If you find it difficult to make the choice between zoom lens and wide angle lens, you can pick a model that does have a zoom lens (those do tend to cost more then a fixed focus lens). If you do get a zoom lens it also makes sense to get a pan and tilt mount for the camera so that you can direct the camera where to point when you zoom in (the combination of Pan, Tilt and Zoom features in a security camera is often indicated with the abbreviation PTZ).
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AsherN
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Thornhill, ON
reply to fartness
said by fartness:

So I can't just plug the other end into my router? I have to buy a dedicated PoE switch which plugs into my router?

It seems easier to power them using PoE (and plugged the AC adapter into a convenient spot), rather than running an extra cat5 cable to my wired router on my 2nd floor. The basement would likely be the staging area. I even think there's conduit from my garage since it has electricity and is detached that I could use to get back to the house (maybe 30 to 50 feet away, too lazy to measure right now). That's all why powering with PoE due to lack of outlets seems easier and using 802.11g for the wireless. I could upgrade to an n router if I ever need my devices not slowed down (only my cellphone and work laptop use my 802.11a/g, neither of which I use much).

PoE does not use an extra Ethernet cable. An Ethernet cable has 4 pairs. 10/100Mbps uses only 2. A PoE injector will supply power over one of the other 2 pairs. It is possible, but unlikely, that a Wi-Fi camera will also support Cat5. If you want to deliver power via PoE to avoid needing a standard outlet close to the camera, then you don't need Wi-Fi.


leibold
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reply to fartness
said by fartness:

So I can't just plug the other end into my router?

You have choices:

1.) You can use separate POE injectors (like the one you linked to earlier). An Ethernet cable would go from your router or switch or hub to the input side of the POE injector and a second Ethernet cable would go from the output side of the POE injector to the security camera. Repeat for each camera (6 cables for 3 cameras).

2.) You can use a POE switch. One Ethernet cable would go from your router to the switch to provide network connectivity. In addition one Ethernet cable per camera connects each camera to one of the POE switch ports. The advantage is less clutter and only one power outlet used (only 4 cables for 3 cameras). Think of a POE switch as nothing but a regular switch with POE injectors added inside (for added convenience).

3.) It is not even an either/or choice. You could use a POE switch in the back of the house where you plan to have 2 cameras and use a single port POE injector in the front of the house. Mix and match as you like.

4.) If you don't currently use a wired network (it seems you prefer wireless), yet another option is to get a wireless POE switch. Obviously all the devices that you do want to power over the Ethernet cable (the security cameras) need to be connected to the POE switch with Ethernet cables but the connection to the rest of your network can be wireless (even if the cameras themselves are not wireless). In this option you would only need 3 cables to connect the 3 cameras.
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