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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080 to patt2k

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Re: Will VZ-Fios do something about Optimum new tiers?

said by patt2k:

^I hope for a 100/45 tier

Cablevision is letting customers have ultra 101 (/35) for $44.90 Vz going to have to spend money just to match that with upgrades of it's own. The OOL speed tiers are now official and pricing seems to be less than Verizon. Now it's wait & see what Verizon does or doesn't do.
mikev
Premium Member
join:2002-05-04
Leesburg, VA
·Verizon FiOS
(Software) pfSense
Panasonic KX-TGP600

mikev

Premium Member

said by tmc8080:

Cablevision is letting customers have ultra 101 (/35) for $44.90 Vz going to have to spend money just to match that with upgrades of it's own. The OOL speed tiers are now official and pricing seems to be less than Verizon. Now it's wait & see what Verizon does or doesn't do.

Wow. I'm paying Verizon $45/mo for 20/5 FiOS internet on a no-contract double-play. My speed is limited since I'm on a BPON VDSL MDU box. I think Verizon needs to reconsider their rates for their low-end tiers, or they'll quickly be without customers.
lijacobs
join:2010-07-30
Woodmere, NY

2 recommendations

lijacobs

Member

All of this agonizing over speed upgrades is really quite silly. This is all one-up-man-ship by the providers in order to sell their product. 98% of all internet users are well served by a 25 megabit connection.
serge87
join:2009-11-29
New York

serge87

Member

said by lijacobs:

All of this agonizing over speed upgrades is really quite silly. This is all one-up-man-ship by the providers in order to sell their product. 98% of all internet users are well served by a 25 megabit connection.

Quoted for truth. Once you go past 50mb/s, how much of a difference is there between 50 and 75mb/s? or 75 and 150mb(or 300mb/s)? for 99% of users: none.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

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many families who consume HI-Def video (via the internet) would disagree.. 100 megabit is just the kind of bandwidth needed to keep pace with video encoded at higher bitrates. while cablevision is taking a gamble to provide it at such a low cost that it will net them protection against Verizon's current NYC build.

this gamble pays off if Verizon continues to do nothing and offer nothing new into next year. other related issues are afoot that can't be discussed here unfortunately.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff to tmc8080

MVM,

to tmc8080
said by tmc8080:

Cablevision is letting customers have ultra 101 (/35) for $44.90 Vz going to have to spend money just to match that with upgrades of it's own. The OOL speed tiers are now official and pricing seems to be less than Verizon. Now it's wait & see what Verizon does or doesn't do.

I think you're misrepresenting the pricing. As I posted earlier, the free upgrade to Ultra 101 was an incentive to keep old customers happy while transitioning to new speed tiers. That price is not available anymore.

The current full rate pricing is:
Base: $39.95 (intro pricing, regular 49.95)
50/25 : $4.95 extra
101:35 : $55 extra

Bringing Ultra101 to a regular rate of $104.95. The pricing is very close to VZ's stand alone offerings.

Even the triple play prices (for new customers) are similar.
serge87
join:2009-11-29
New York

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said by tmc8080:

many families who consume HI-Def video (via the internet) would disagree.. 100 megabit is just the kind of bandwidth needed to keep pace with video encoded at higher bitrates. while cablevision is taking a gamble to provide it at such a low cost that it will net them protection against Verizon's current NYC build.

I hear that argument a lot. However, a 1080p stream doesn't need more than 5-10mbps per device. Who has a dozen devices all watching high bitrate 1080p streams simultaneouly? and when did this scenario become the majority of FIOS users?

destroyah
join:2005-04-20
Norwalk, CA

destroyah

Member

Serge, this is about future proofing. 4k tvs are right around the corner, along with 8k in about 5-8 years. Having a nice baseline 100 Mb/s connection will help speed up adoption of those new standards. Also, it opens up the way for lower compression on 720 and 1080p streams which is also a good thing for the consumer. Being able to watch something with less artifacts on screen from over compression would help with enjoyment of content.

You also have to factor in price. We are already paying so much, why can't we get a little return on our investment, for a change?
lijacobs
join:2010-07-30
Woodmere, NY

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said by serge87:

said by tmc8080:

many families who consume HI-Def video (via the internet) would disagree.. 100 megabit is just the kind of bandwidth needed to keep pace with video encoded at higher bitrates. while cablevision is taking a gamble to provide it at such a low cost that it will net them protection against Verizon's current NYC build.

I hear that argument a lot. However, a 1080p stream doesn't need more than 5-10mbps per device. Who has a dozen devices all watching high bitrate 1080p streams simultaneouly? and when did this scenario become the majority of FIOS users?

Amen!
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

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I think what they meant for ultra is $55 over the BASE rate.. not 40 + 5 + 55... which is $95. Most people will get promo pricing for at least 1 year.. somtimes 2 or 3 through retention dept. Currently, I think CV wants as many customers as they can get right now with this new momentum. Look at it this way, with the new pricing your bill only goes up $10 now instead of $20 or more off promotion.

I dunno, same prices as VZ? Have you looked at the stand-alone pricing?
Unless you sign up for a 2 year CONTRACT the prices are as competitive as you think. Standard pricing has 15 megabits at $75, 50 at $85 and 75 at $95 out of contract. * plus taxes and fees. Starting at a base of $75 puts Verizon $25 ahead of optimum not counting the mandatory fees they might assess and from time to time raise... Verizon's current 2 year deals have a mixed pricing from and average of $59 for 15 megabits (weigh the average price from year 1 & year 2) to $79 for 75 megabits. With many customers getting ultra 101 in their promotions for $45 this about 1/2 price of signing up for a 2 year deal at a slower speed... you'd have to be crazy do pay twice the price... plus add'l fees. This math doesn't lie, VZ is more expensive offering slower speeds (price per megabit basis) right now until something changes.

thorxgal
join:2000-12-31
Bayonne, NJ

thorxgal

Member

Click for full size
It looks they already are changing pricing. It is likely based on individual basis. Currently I have Optimum, but my promo soon will expire. I have just checked VZ pricing for Internet only and this is what I see (no contract)
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

I think this is based on the fact that your viewing the website from another ISP.. so the idea is NOT to offer (or show how much better NEW customers are treated) current customers a deal with better terms if they are already signed for a contract .. I've currently signed up for the 2 year deal that has 50mbit at 44.99 and year 2 at 64.99. However, current OOL customers are getting ultra 101 @ $45 a month.. saving $50 a month.

Even at the more competitive price for new customers.. $45 vs $60... 101 vs 75.. albeit the 35 on verizon will be somewhat faster than OOL's.. the $15 savings makes up for that.

On the other hand, there is a 30 day window where I can cancel & switch back.. maybe I should try calling in and see if they'll bump the tier (for the same price). I'll concede that OOL's deal is not an offical price.. but something offered to retain & acquire customers.

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

Thinkdiff to tmc8080

MVM,

to tmc8080
I said Ultra101 regular rate is $104.95 (49.95+55). With the current $39.99 promo, it's $95.

As for Verizon - in the NYC area their off-contract pricing is usually very similar to the on-contract. If you want to compare promo prices, you should compare them fairly (even if VZ requires a contract). The current deals for the NYC area were posted above - right in line with CableVision (except the 150/35 tier is missing).

As for the $45 you keep bringing up - exactly zero new customers are getting that deal. It was a one time deal for previous customers. It doesn't make sense to compare retention deals as if you're good enough to convince OOL to give you Ultra101 for $45 (not going to happen unless you were an existing customer), then you could probably convince Verizon to do the same (or buy a bridge).
Thinkdiff

Thinkdiff to tmc8080

MVM,

to tmc8080
said by tmc8080:

Even at the more competitive price for new customers.. $45 vs $60... 101 vs 75.. albeit the 35 on verizon will be somewhat faster than OOL's.. the $15 savings makes up for that.

Again, It is impossible to get Ultra101 for $45 as a new customer. This comparison is irrelevant. Compare Ultra50 @ $45 and FiOS 50 @ $50. Not a huge difference.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

I just had FIOS reinstalled at the end of June.. so was with CV previously.. it's not as if there's a 3rd wired carrier in nyc overlapping markets... If CV offered 101 @ $45 a month I'm well within my rights to cancel my 2 year deal with Verizon (within 30 days of activation). Obviously it wouldn't make sense to switch back and pay $95 or $105... or an early termination fee from Verizon. ** Recent customers tend to be the ones still in play at least a month after disconnecting. Verizon sent me "we want you back" notices up to 3 months after switching last time.

If this existing deal at $45 becomes popular enough they might just reduce the ultra 101 price for everybody so it isn't such jump (+$55). Its easy to see what CV gets out of this free upgrade.. besides lots of good PR... they are testing docsis channel bonding (stress testing) the network to see where bandwidth demands are while trying to make Verizon spend money for it's own set of upgrades.. at a time when they really don't want to spend a penny more than they have to.

While the vast majority of single and dual play customers are getting the upgrade as existing customers.. IIRC I've seen posts of people just recently signing up for OOL triple play getting the free upgrade to ultra 101-- similar to what VZ did with quantum (free upgrade from 15 to 50 megabits).

Thinkdiff
MVM,
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY

1 edit

Thinkdiff

MVM,

said by tmc8080:

While the vast majority of single and dual play customers are getting the upgrade as existing customers.. IIRC I've seen posts of people just recently signing up for OOL triple play getting the free upgrade to ultra 101-- similar to what VZ did with quantum (free upgrade from 15 to 50 megabits).

I doubt the "vast majority" of OOL subs were paying for Boost/Boost+ before 7/15. The sampling of users on DSLR would definitely be skewed towards people that pay more for more speed. I'm sure if you look through their financials, you may be able to figure it out, but I'm not that interested.

As for the free upgrade - again, no. That's not happening. I signed up for the triple play last friday (before the cut off) and did get upgraded to Ultra101, but if you sign up after 7/15, there's basically zero chance (and nobody has posted they were able to do it so far. Just previous Ultra customers getting their old pricing reduced through hours or complaining). You keep trying to compare retention/negotiated offers to published promos - it doesn't make sense. Verizon has very little to worry about here. I suspect they will upgrade their speeds late this year or early next year, but I doubt it's related to a few existing CV subs getting a free upgrade.

I just don't see the immediate threat you do. Like you said - you just switched to FiOS. CV's current offer for you is Ultra @ $95 (stand alone). That's not enough to pull you from Verizon - so why should Verizon be worried?
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

The $5 upsell will convert more 15/5 subscribers to 50/25 while some might get the upgrade free as retention & current customer promos offered all the time. It seems stupid to tease customers with a free upgrade to ultra 101 only to have these customers downgrade after their promotions end when the price is +$55 or even worse switch to Verizon when the time comes.

Perhaps a timed upgrade in speeds for Verizon will happen. It seems like a joke to have this happen in the middle of winter but cheaper for the expected truck rolls to upgrade beyond 100 megabits-- assuming gas prices retreat in the new year. On the other hand, most people are broke come the new year after holiday shopping.
tnsprin
join:2003-07-23
Bradenton, FL

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And of course they also switch out the Ont for these.
patt2k
join:2009-01-16

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Thorxgal I already saw this pricing it has not changed for a while that is not the change we are waiting for
VirtualLarry
Premium Member
join:2003-08-01

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said by thorxgal:

I have just checked VZ pricing for Internet only and this is what I see (no contract)

I just checked myself, and I see $74.99, $84.99, and $94.99. Which is list price. I can get $25 off for a two-year contract.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

If you are a current Verizon customer with a promotion it is unlikely they will reset or extend new promotions unless it is to their advantage to do so.. (such as high profit revenut per customer kind). Be aware that FIOS broadband customers are now have to pay a municipal construction fee surcharge. I'm not sure if it's a % of the svc. Mine is currently $.99

tito79
join:2010-03-14
Port Saint Lucie, FL

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Not to be off topic but when I was a kid I met a technician he was old school he said cable is better than fiber as its more upgradable in the future. should I had believed him or not?

birdfeedr
MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI

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MVM

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said by tmc8080:

Be aware that FIOS broadband customers are now have to pay a municipal construction fee surcharge. I'm not sure if it's a % of the svc. Mine is currently $.99

I've heard this once before, maybe it was you who said it in another post. I think this may be a regional thing. I checked my latest billing and see nothing like that. It is likely only applicable to NY metro area.

Like another tax that has to be paid. New York gets great bundle prices, but has higher tax and other costs.
UofMiamiGrad
Premium Member
join:2001-02-03
Syosset, NY

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Click for full size
Well there is now a 500/100 Mbps package, so I guess VZ responded!
patt2k
join:2009-01-16

patt2k

Member

Well with the 500/100
i hope 150/65 goes down or they give us 100 tier for people with 75/35

SoCalDude
join:2008-07-30
Oxnard, CA

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I guess Verizon is responding with more speed for more money. Over at the Optimum forum, users are getting 58/25 speeds for ~$35 a month, now that's value.

Chris123NT
join:2001-11-24
Palm Bay, FL

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This is frustrating to me as my area is stuck on BPON. I may just have to jump back over to optimum when my contract is up.
noebl1
join:2003-01-03
MA, USA

noebl1

Member

Keep an eye out occasionally on the manage services site. I was stuck in BPON until very recently myself. No notification, just showed up a couple weeks ago as an option (even the 500/100 tier as well.)

-Mike

mig288
Premium Member
join:2002-07-13
Cherry Hill, NJ

mig288 to UofMiamiGrad

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I only see top speeds of 150/65 available. I have GPON in my area. I wonder why I don't even see the 300/65 package. Hrm.. Thoughts?
mig288

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That 500/100 package is pretty wicked! Whats the price tag?