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Torabo

join:2009-09-01

[Cable] "wonderful" tech support

So today my brother notices that the cable running to the house is physically cut and thus, obviously, we do not have internet. But he was heading out for the weekend, so he thought he'll just call while on the road and try to arrange for someone to come and fix the cable on Monday when he's back.

Boy was he wrong. Apparently Teksavvy customer support has decided that you have to go through the regular modem diagnostics to verify that the cable is cut. Apparently we're all blind people these days and can't tell that a cable is cut by looking at it lying on the ground on the drive way when it should be running across the street.

I recall rogers tech support being horrible back in the day, but even they didn't force me to test the modem during the times when the cable got cut by trucks passing through.

Either way, this will be days lost for my brother as he's not home during the weekend to "test" the modem, and I'm currently out of the country so I can't call into tech support and to tell them how retarded this is.

Seriously, teksavvy, get your act together. I can understand needing to go through the diagnostics for connection issues (even when its obvious the issue is w/ rogers) but for a cut cable? If you can't even get rogers to go fix a cut cable without writing a 10-page report you really need to rethink how you do things. Not only is this inconvenient and ridiculous, it is extremely inefficient, wasting both your customer's time as well as your agent's time. Heck, if its just a matter of Rogers charging for a visit if it ends up not being a cut cable, I'm sure any one in the same situation with working eyeballs would be willing to take the risk that the cable cut lying on the ground might be a figment of their imagination and they're hallucinating and will have to pay Rogers. Seriously. I'm understanding more and more why it takes so long to speak to an agent each time there's an issue.

Not only do you need better training of your agents so they're not just machines working from a set script all the time (or you might as well just replacement with those "select X if Y" prompts since they're just as effective) and a better communications channel with rogers that's not so inefficient and ineffective.


TSI Jonathan
Premium
join:2011-08-24
canada
kudos:10
Hi Torabo,

I'm sorry to read about your brother's experience with this issue. It is definitely frustrating when you know there are no ways to fix this and that the only option is to have a tech physically go out there and fix it. The steps that we have to go through is a requirement from our vendor for them to action whichever request we send their way.

I agree with you that we should be able to tell our vendor "this customer's line is visually cut completely on the outside of his home" which is what I want to test out on this one. Since we have time as your brother is away for the weekend, I'd like to try and submit it off to our vendor and see what they come back with. If they absolutely require the information after informing them that the line is physically cut it will unfortunately have to wait until your brother is home. I think it's worth giving it a shot.

Can you please PM me your brother's name or account number by chance and I will see what I can do on this one .

Cheers,

TSI Jonathan
--
E-Services Team Leader
Authorized TSI employee - Teksavvy Solutions Inc.


Flux

join:2013-07-10
canada
reply to Torabo
Teksavvy does not have scripts, Rogers demands that stuff; even if you emailed them a picture of you holding the cut cable, chances are Rogers won't care unless they get their neatly filled out email.
:\


bbbc

join:2001-10-02
NorthAmerica
kudos:2
Reviews:
·FreedomPop
reply to Torabo
said by TSI Jonathan :

The steps that we have to go through is a requirement from our vendor for them to action whichever request we send their way.

We all get the TPIA SOP (Standard Operating Procedure), but where does common sense fit. I'm glad you submitted something Jonathon, but maybe coach your folks on how to fudge a few facts if you need to submit something so blatant to the evil duopoly.

All these posts make you ponder how many issues (installs or problems) go unreported on DSLR.

--
Consumerist.com | Consumers Union


NytOwl

join:2012-09-27
canada

1 recommendation

reply to TSI Jonathan
said by TSI Jonathan:

...If they absolutely require the information after informing them that the line is physically cut it will unfortunately have to wait until your brother is home. I think it's worth giving it a shot.

Hey, here's a silly thought!

If they "absolutely require" the information, then fill out whatever form you have to, putting in whatever information you believe is needed without the customer actually having to go through the ordeal. Yes, fake it. Seriously.

People. Common sense should prevail here.

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
said by NytOwl:

said by TSI Jonathan:

...If they absolutely require the information after informing them that the line is physically cut it will unfortunately have to wait until your brother is home. I think it's worth giving it a shot.

Hey, here's a silly thought!

If they "absolutely require" the information, then fill out whatever form you have to, putting in whatever information you believe is needed without the customer actually having to go through the ordeal. Yes, fake it. Seriously.

People. Common sense should prevail here.

Unfortunately it doesn't.


TSI Martin
Premium
join:2006-02-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:33
reply to NytOwl
said by NytOwl:

People. Common sense should prevail here.

Because lying is a solution?!? If for whatever reason we get caught doing this... what is this going to say about TekSavvy?

Faking information will simply lead to further delay, issues, trust that TekSavvy opens tickets with proper information.

It's definitely not the way we want to go with this.
--
TSI Martin (Escalations / E-Services) - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Authorized TSI employee ( »»TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )
Follow us on Twitter : @TekSavvyCSR ; @TekSavvyNetwork

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to NytOwl
said by NytOwl:

People. Common sense should prevail here.

Gotta love procedures. Most people handling requests aren't paid to be clever; they are paid to follow scripts.

That's like the few times where I got authentication issues: TSI rep keeps telling me I must have made a mistake when entering login info even though I hadn't changed my router's configuration for months prior to authentication failures - my login attempts were actively being rejected as invalid name/password but TSI was not seeing my login attempts, indicating that my authentication requests were likely being forwarded to some other RADIUS server.

Quite frustrating to jump through hoops for stuff you know with practically 100% certainty that the script cannot help you.

Torabo

join:2009-09-01
reply to TSI Martin
Hi Martin,

First of all, sorry for the post sounding a bit grumpy. Being woken up early in the morning (across the world) by my brother can lead to grumpy posts >_>;;

While I agree lying isn't a good solution, I do feel like there needs to be a bit more leeway for common sense to apply. Maybe for example, negotiate a way with Rogers to submit certain types of tickets without having to go through the whole diagnostics when its impractical and achieves nothing (I do agree that depending on the issue, the routine will catch the odd thing that people do miss, as I've done some silly things myself like thinking the network was down with an unplugged cable, though never to the point where i called tech support over it). I do not know if Rogers is willing to negotiate these things at all, but as I had mentioned in my post I do know for sure that their tech support agents had more leeway when I had called them years ago regarding cut cable lines, so the politics of the business relationship between Tek and Rogers aside, to the customer Rogers' first tier tech support is better for this issue. (They're just as horrible, if not worse with the diagnostic script normally though)

Anyway, hopefully it won't take too long to resolve this once the required info(or not) is sorted out, but I needed to point out to TSI how silly this felt from a customer's point of view.


NytOwl

join:2012-09-27
canada
reply to TSI Martin
said by TSI Martin:

said by NytOwl:

People. Common sense should prevail here.

Because lying is a solution?!? If for whatever reason we get caught doing this... what is this going to say about TekSavvy?

Faking information will simply lead to further delay, issues, trust that TekSavvy opens tickets with proper information.

It's definitely not the way we want to go with this.

Martin,

I'm not necessarily implying that lying is the solution.

Filling out the forms in such a way that would mimic the steps completed by the customer wouldn't be lying in this case. Why? Because by the customer's statement, the cable feed into the residence is physically cut.

This means that the steps you'd have the client follow would render the exact same results in the form as expected. Every step would fail. You know this. We all do. The end results in the form wouldn't be lying; how on Earth would they conclude whether the steps were actually followed or not given that the cable is cut?

...

said by Torabo:

...I do feel like there needs to be a bit more leeway for common sense to apply. Maybe for example, negotiate a way with Rogers to submit certain types of tickets without having to go through the whole diagnostics when its impractical and achieves nothing (I perfectly agree with repeating the silly routine for network issues as sometimes I do miss things myself, such as an unplugged cable, though thankfully I've always caught those cases before I've had to call any tech support over the years)...

+1 !

TSI Marc, please take note.

There's got to be a way for you to discuss that with your contacts at Rogers. I'll say it again: common sense should prevail in these cases.


The Limit
Premium
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Windstream
reply to Torabo
OP, I can understand your frustration, but troubleshooting steps need to be followed first. Your brother should have called when he had access to the modem. He's only making it that much harder for Level I to do their job. I realize this sounds stupid, but you wouldn't believe the kind of calls some techs get and are able to resolve over a simple issue.

To the poster that advocated for lying, you have obviously never worked in a network support role before. If you want to lose your job, then this is the easiest way. You make our jobs much harder when you show your frustration like that to the front line.
--
"We will evaluate these integrals rigorously if we can, and non-rigorously if we must".
---Victor Moll, invited talk, Tom Osler Fest (April 17, 2010)


NytOwl

join:2012-09-27
canada

2 edits
said by The Limit:

OP, I can understand your frustration, but troubleshooting steps need to be followed first. [...] I realize this sounds stupid, but you wouldn't believe the kind of calls some techs get and are able to resolve over a simple issue.

To the poster that advocated for lying, you have obviously never worked in a network support role before. [...] You make our jobs much harder when you show your frustration like that to the front line.

Would you like some water to wash down your foot?

I've been working in network/IT support roles since 2004.

Believe me when I say that I know first hand, all too well, the kinds of various stupidities that front-line support agents are faced with during the course of any given shift. That's no secret.

To be clear: I do agree that troubleshooting steps are needed and warranted for almost every kind of issue there is. ... Except this kind. I'm amazed it bears repeating: the cable feed is physically cut on the outside of the premises.

Please explain the logic where any type of troubleshooting steps with the modem and cabling/connections inside the residence should be required here. Do you expect the cable modem to be power-cycled and magically conjure a signal from the cut line? Really?

If the cable guy shows up and somehow miraculously determines that the cut line was not the cause of the issue, the customer can then deal with the hefty fee; that's his risk to take.

This kind of needless time-wasting bureaucracy makes me twitch to no end.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Submit picture along with the partially incomplete troubelshooting steps..

Steps 5 through 50 N/A cable cut, picture attached
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to The Limit
said by The Limit:

OP, I can understand your frustration, but troubleshooting steps need to be followed first.

Troubleshooting steps are to find non-obvious failures.

A cut line lying in plain view in your driveway can hardly get any more obvious - it is so obvious that you would likely know to expect services to be down upon seeing the cable if you happened to see the cable before noticing no signal on the TV or modem.

This is a little like calling your car dealership to complain that your car runs like hell due to a flat tire but the dealer insisting on going through his whole troubleshooting list of irrelevant potential causes (for the purposes of the current call) anyway since the customer has already identified the obvious cause beyond any reasonable doubt.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

3 edits
reply to The Limit
said by The Limit:

OP, I can understand your frustration, but troubleshooting steps need to be followed first. Your brother should have called when he had access to the modem. He's only making it that much harder for Level I to do their job. I realize this sounds stupid, but you wouldn't believe the kind of calls some techs get and are able to resolve over a simple issue.

To the poster that advocated for lying, you have obviously never worked in a network support role before. If you want to lose your job, then this is the easiest way. You make our jobs much harder when you show your frustration like that to the front line.

lying isn't the solution sure, but what troubleshooting steps? This is like CAA troubleshooting my car troubles.

--------

Me: Engine dropped out of the car, it's no longer attached
CAA: Sir, I still need you to try to start the car, so can you please try turning over the car first before we send out a tow truck.

--------

To the contrary of what you said, i have a feeling you have never worked a support role a day in your life. Working for ISP's as early as the dialup days, there are times where when a customer says something, you simply skip step 5-6-7-8 on the script. Thus common sense. In this case, it's really tying up the phone lines to "troubleshoot" an obvious issue. Troubleshooting an issue means we're working towards figuring something out that we do not know. Something that is wrong and there is no obvious answer. Cable laying on the drive way in your hand is ......uh.... obvious. No different then LG trying to troubleshoot why my TV isn't turning on because the cord was cut, but they still need me to try and turn it on by the remote. Silly yes, but these are all obvious answers.

Caller: Cable is in my hands outside, i promise it will not work.

Now before you go saying "Well he can't take the customers word for it, let's remember many of us "techie" guys have more often then not lied on a phone call when "troubleshooting"


TSI Jonathan
Premium
join:2011-08-24
canada
kudos:10
reply to Torabo
Hi Torabo,

I am currently working with the Manager on Duty to have someone give your brother a call this morning to get this going. The information you provided me via PM only brought up 3 cancelled DSL accounts and no cable internet account. Once we get the right account info we'll do our best to get this taken care of.

Cheers,

TSI Jonathan
--
E-Services Team Leader
Authorized TSI employee - Teksavvy Solutions Inc.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to Tx
Case in point. Many years ago, my cable stopped working. I found a damaged cable on the ground. I was ready to call Rogers when I double checked at the pole, and sure enough a disconnected coming out of the ground going up the pole. Could this be an old disused cable? Went back inside and tried a different port on my splitter, and voila cable tv returns!

So the damaged cable was actually unused. I ripped that cable out to prevent confusion in the future! This was one severely damaged cable! It had been chewed in many places!

Sometimes the seemingly obvious isn't!


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Click for full size
Click for full size
said by sbrook:

Case in point. Many years ago, my cable stopped working. I found a damaged cable on the ground. I was ready to call Rogers when I double checked at the pole, and sure enough a disconnected coming out of the ground going up the pole. Could this be an old disused cable? Went back inside and tried a different port on my splitter, and voila cable tv returns!

So the damaged cable was actually unused. I ripped that cable out to prevent confusion in the future! This was one severely damaged cable! It had been chewed in many places!

Sometimes the seemingly obvious isn't!

Pretty coincidental that you found a dead cable and yours goes out but the truth to what you just said is, your house isn't as easy to identify. A lot of homes are.

Last two homes I've lived in, the cable running to my home was easy enough to identify a 3 year old could do it. Cable and hydro wires running to each home. You simply have to trust that a customer knows what they are talking about. If someone is that confident what it is, odds are they know their property or it's again obvious as they live in homes that are. As shown above 2 pictures, some random places in Mississauga/Oakville 1 of which is my old neighborhood. Top pic is a little harder to see but you can see the wires running o ver the grass.


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to sbrook
said by sbrook:

Sometimes the seemingly obvious isn't!

This is for sure a valid point, but... Of the three page report Teksavvy is required to fill out (formatted nicely by Teksavvy, but still huge), if the cable has been cut there are only a few relevant tests:
Does the modem show indications of no RF signal at all?
(ie, internet light blinking on DCM425 or DS light blinking on other modems)

When you connect the modem as close as possible to where the cable comes in the house, does the modem still show no RF?

Oh, and you've got a cable laying on the ground too? Well then, I think we have a winner...
At this point the question of "lying" becomes more interesting.. Still problematic in many ways, but not actually deceptive at all.

Probably doesn't do the OP any good, because nobody is home to check the internal wiring, but..
--
electronicsguru.ca


Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to NytOwl
said by NytOwl:

TSI Marc, please take note.

There's got to be a way for you to discuss that with your contacts at Rogers. I'll say it again: common sense should prevail in these cases.

Obviously I agree in principal. However, you have to remember, Rogers would just as soon have Teksavvy not exist. Rogers has no incentive to negotiate anything at all.

It is, in the end, a CRTC issue. Should Teksavvy spend their time in front of the CRTC fighting over service details (install timeframes and service procedures), trying to get lower prices, or trying to get access (to speeds, to footprint)? So far the service details side has slipped in favour of the others.
--
electronicsguru.ca


TSI Martin
Premium
join:2006-02-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:33
reply to NytOwl
said by NytOwl:

This means that the steps you'd have the client follow would render the exact same results in the form as expected. Every step would fail. You know this. We all do. The end results in the form wouldn't be lying; how on Earth would they conclude whether the steps were actually followed or not given that the cable is cut?

I get that opening a ticket with the Vendor for an actual RF issue some information is redundant, and being on the phone we do have some templates to copy/paste the information fill up the rest, but in what you said initially, it wasn't about the OP's cut line, this is what you said.

said by NytOwl:

If they "absolutely require" the information, then fill out whatever form you have to, putting in whatever information you believe is needed without the customer actually having to go through the ordeal. Yes, fake it. Seriously.

^^^ That's simply shouldn't happen. Ever.
--
TSI Martin (Escalations / E-Services) - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Authorized TSI employee ( »»TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )
Follow us on Twitter : @TekSavvyCSR ; @TekSavvyNetwork


NytOwl

join:2012-09-27
canada
Martin,

You're missing the point.

I acknowledge that it's a very slippery slope if agents start to just fill out mandatory forms will-nilly with whatever information they presume necessary.

Now, see my other statement here:

said by NytOwl:

To be clear: I do agree that troubleshooting steps are needed and warranted for almost every kind of issue there is. ... Except this kind. I'm amazed it bears repeating: the cable feed is physically cut on the outside of the premises.

Please explain the logic where any type of troubleshooting steps with the modem and cabling/connections inside the residence should be required here. Do you expect the cable modem to be power-cycled and magically conjure a signal from the cut line? Really?

[...]

This kind of needless time-wasting bureaucracy makes me twitch to no end.

- Do you guys have a job to do? Yes.

- Are some aspects of it frustrating? Yes.

- Are there procedures that you "must" follow, no matter how insane they are and how much they go against plain common sense? Yes.

That third point is the problem.

While I agree about the need for procedure and the importance of following it, there should also be an exception in place for something so obvious as this scenario, so as to not waste the customer's time.

I'm baffled by how defensive you're seemingly being about that.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to Torabo
The $64 question, is why call TSI at all?

They provide the Internet service, while Rogers et al,provide the physical plant at your home.

Case in point, the Bell telephone wire was dangling low in my backyard, I called Bell about fixing it and they said I had no service with them. (True). I pointed out, regardless, it was their wire and they were responsible for it (safety issue).

They came out and fixed it.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
said by elwoodblues:

The $64 question, is why call TSI at all?

They provide the Internet service, while Rogers et al,provide the physical plant at your home.

Case in point, the Bell telephone wire was dangling low in my backyard, I called Bell about fixing it and they said I had no service with them. (True). I pointed out, regardless, it was their wire and they were responsible for it (safety issue).

They came out and fixed it.

If you use the same argument, Rogers might just send someone to remove the dangling wiring instead of bringing out a new drop for the customer.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
said by yyzlhr:

said by elwoodblues:

The $64 question, is why call TSI at all?

They provide the Internet service, while Rogers et al,provide the physical plant at your home.

Case in point, the Bell telephone wire was dangling low in my backyard, I called Bell about fixing it and they said I had no service with them. (True). I pointed out, regardless, it was their wire and they were responsible for it (safety issue).

They came out and fixed it.

If you use the same argument, Rogers might just send someone to remove the dangling wiring instead of bringing out a new drop for the customer.

You're missing the point, it's not a TSI issue, but a incumbent one period. If they removed the wire, I'd scream pretty loud.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
said by elwoodblues:

If they removed the wire, I'd scream pretty loud.

As anyone should be.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to NytOwl
said by NytOwl:

- Do you guys have a job to do? Yes.

- Are some aspects of it frustrating? Yes.

- Are there procedures that you "must" follow, no matter how insane they are and how much they go against plain common sense? Yes.

That third point is the problem.

While I agree about the need for procedure and the importance of following it, there should also be an exception in place for something so obvious as this scenario, so as to not waste the customer's time.

I'm baffled by how defensive you're seemingly being about that.

This kind of nonsense reminds me of dealing with the CSRs at Primus.


NytOwl

join:2012-09-27
canada
said by 34764170:

This kind of nonsense reminds me of dealing with the CSRs at Primus.

I worked at Primus (not as a CSR; I was in Business Support).

Don't even get me started on all the nonsensical bureaucratic BS that goes on over there. I could write a damn novel.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to NytOwl
said by NytOwl:

That third point is the problem.

While I agree about the need for procedure and the importance of following it, there should also be an exception in place for something so obvious as this scenario, so as to not waste the customer's time.

No need for an "exception", just need to add branches to the initial troubleshooting scenario to handle the few "exceptions" where the customer reports one of those.

If a subscriber reports that his service is down due to cut cable, skip straight to steps that are relevant to confirming that 1) the modem is not bricked by logging into the management interface and 2) it still fails to find a signal at the main service entrance before any splitters or with everything else disconnected and a shorter cable. No point in wasting time resetting/rebooting the PC, modem, router, switches, etc. to troubleshoot IP connectivity issues when you have cable's equivalent of DSL's "no sync" issue.


The Limit
Premium
join:2007-09-25
Greensboro, NC
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Windstream
reply to NytOwl
Like I said, I know where this guy is coming from, and you see exactly why I say what I say. This doesn't happen every day, the guy should been home in my opinion.
--
"We will evaluate these integrals rigorously if we can, and non-rigorously if we must".
---Victor Moll, invited talk, Tom Osler Fest (April 17, 2010)