dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
7642
buckweet1980
join:2011-12-31
Saint Petersburg, FL

buckweet1980 to kenwvt

Member

to kenwvt

Re: 500/100 Package available.

said by kenwvt:

This is why we don't get any more HD channels, they keep bonding channels for useless internet. No one needs 300 let alone 500....ridiculous...FioS can't even provide a decent router with N speed without having to pay extra for it.

-Ken

FIOS uses different wavelengths on the fiber for internet/phone vs video. Video doesn't impact each other in anyway, excluding VoD.

JohnCC
join:2005-12-19
none

JohnCC to houkouonchi

Member

to houkouonchi
$300 a month for 500/100? That is insane. Just a package that very few will bother to buy, but it can be boasted about.

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
Asus RT-AX89

aaronwt to SilentMan

Premium Member

to SilentMan
said by SilentMan:

The 500/100 package would only be good to people who want to download tons of Blu-ray ISOs and if the source could upload at that speed; otherwise it is a waste of money.

For anyone needing the faster upload speeds it would be welcome. The faster upload speed is the reason I got the 150/65 tier. If they would have had a 65/65 tier I would have picked that. The faster the upload speed the faster I can upload data to online storage. And having 100Mb/s upload speeds would be nice for that.
webcobbler
join:2013-03-09
Rumson, NJ

webcobbler to bohratom

Member

to bohratom
I am in the same area as you, and AFAIK, i can receive 150/65 and up connections. I doubled checked online , as well as calling because I am about to upgrade my services soon.
neo95
join:2010-12-22
Tampa, FL

neo95 to houkouonchi

Member

to houkouonchi
I would like to know if Verizon is planing on upgrading Bpon to Gpon anytime soon. I live in the tampa,fl area and stuck on bpon (75/35). literally a few hundred feet down the road in the next subdivision they are on Gpon and are able to get the new tier 500/100. i read an article on Fios new tier which states "Verizon is hoping to gradually introduce its newest speed tier to all FiOS markets by 2014, with limited availability starting today" does that mean we will be upgraded to Gpon ?
»www.engadget.com/2013/07 ··· 00-mbps/
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

2 edits

silbaco to houkouonchi

Premium Member

to houkouonchi
Anyway, business services are a huge part of Verizon's revenue stream. It is to their best advantage to keep residential services asymmetrical to keep business uses off them and onto more costly services, whatever that may be. A business customer costs more to service not just because of the level of service they receive, but because they use on average far more bandwidth than your average residential user. That may require upgrades and maintenance not otherwise necessary to sustain such traffic reliably.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

DataRiker

Premium Member

This may have been true on copper circuits. This is absolutely incorrect for fiber. The fiber circuit you use on "business FIOS" is the exact same circuit you use on residential fios.

Verizon is not buying more backbone access to accommodate your business FIOS connection. ( this is totally unnecessary with modern peering arrangements: actually the more data Verizon can send the better )

Your paying for support only. So, isn't it fair to let the consumer decide which product he wants based on the differences, and not the forced artificial scarcity?
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

It may be on the same circuit, but that doesn't mean they won't have to do upgrades because that business is on that circuit. Look at their BPON infrastructure, they have had to upgrade areas to meet traffic needs. No doubt businesses can accelerate that need. Granted, BPON needs to go anyway, now.

Google Fiber was designed from the ground up to deliver 1gig/1gig. FiOS, at least initially, was not.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 edit

DataRiker

Premium Member

With modern fiber infrastructure there is no reason for large overselling. Period.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

Delivering advertised speed is a lot easier when you have a lot of residential users using Facebook and Xbox live than if you have businesses uploading several 100GB VMs to some offsite location.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

DataRiker

Premium Member

With modern fiber infrastructure there is no reason for large overselling. Period.

Backbones have never been and probably never will be at 100% capacity. Sure you get an oversold router here and there giving off the appearance of capacity, but even that is minimal these days.
silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

silbaco

Premium Member

True enough. But it happens all the time. And when it does it costs money to correct.

houkouonchi
join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA

houkouonchi to silbaco

Member

to silbaco
said by silbaco:

Anyway, business services are a huge part of Verizon's revenue stream. It is to their best advantage to keep residential services asymmetrical to keep business uses off them and onto more costly services, whatever that may be. A business customer costs more to service not just because of the level of service they receive, but because they use on average far more bandwidth than your average residential user. That may require upgrades and maintenance not otherwise necessary to sustain such traffic reliably.

Yet FIOS residential/business speeds are identical.

birdfeedr
MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI

birdfeedr to silbaco

MVM

to silbaco
said by silbaco:

It is to their best advantage to keep residential services asymmetrical to keep business uses off them and onto more costly services, whatever that may be.

The asymmetry is the result of legacy design to meet needs when typical internet use was download. Upload was limited to provide more download capacity.

Also, as has been pointed out, there's residential and small business with the same speed tiers. It is assumed small business customers have more accessibility to higher level support. That appears to be the case in my experience.

Then there's enterprise level services which you may be referring to. That's a whole different ballgame. »www.verizonenterprise.co ··· roducts/
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
Westell 6100
Cisco PIX 501

cramer to DataRiker

Premium Member

to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:

Backbones have never been and probably never will be at 100% capacity.

FiOS or in general? I know for a fact that's a lie. (but networking entities do. not. talk. about. it.)
said by birdfeedr:

The asymmetry is the result of legacy design to meet needs when typical internet use was download...

The asymmetry is an artifact of re-purposing technologies that were never designed for a high speed return path (or any return at all.) Even today's passive optical networks fall to the same sorts of constraints -- the upstream is shared equally across a fixed number of ports because nodes cannot see each other to coordinate when it's clear to transmit.
elefante72
join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

elefante72 to birdfeedr

Member

to birdfeedr
The speeds are asymmetrical because the topology for download and upload (at different WDM wavelenghts) use different methods, and they are VERY similar to DOCSIS.

The download lambda from the OLT is "broadcast" and uses multiple conditional access to receive the appropriate packet, quite similar to a cable setup. Upload lambda uses TDMA so it has to request a timeslot and tune continuously and then upload to the bitstream. They use BM (burst mode) as to not attenuate the ONU signal along the path, so there is a bunch of handshaking going on and continual tuning. The upload is different than cable because rather than timing electrically they have to time optically and since every ONT is a different distance all terminals need to agree and continually tune.

This leads to lower upstream speeds as Verizon has this setup.

Google Fiber uses multi-point home runs muxed through WDM at the hut so it can avoid the upstream MA, and hence run symmetrical since every channel has 1.2GB bi-directionally. I was reading up on their methods...quite innovative. So think of the transmission being tuned at each Google jack, goes into the hut, and then multiplexed (many lambdas) to the headend. From a power budget they probably piggyback channels, but I don't know that for sure.

And the Verizon ONTs for business services are different than residential ones, so that is another point of differentiation. They come in 2 pieces and have 2 big LA batteries, supposedly can go for a few days without power. I spoke to some of my small businesses and battery replacement "seems" to be part of the service. I can't imagine that it wouldn't. They also wire for Ethernet out of the PON, not MoCA. As VBS has SLA's, they may also have upstream slot priority if the node degrades. I don't know that for sure, but it sure makes sense. I haven't read the contract.

In any case the only businesses that still run TWC (their prices are a RIP) are ones that have to. I had one SB that was paying $80 for 3/256. I almost fell over.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

DataRiker to cramer

Premium Member

to cramer
said by cramer:

FiOS or in general? I know for a fact that's a lie.

Please give a citation. I've never seen literature for a Tier 1 provider not meeting capacity by a wide margin. Fiber is not run one strand at a time. Every major fiber line is a bundle of fiber lines, most of which are dark. Many have 20+ fiber strands in them.
cramer
Premium Member
join:2007-04-10
Raleigh, NC
Westell 6100
Cisco PIX 501

cramer

Premium Member

said by DataRiker:

Please give a citation.

Can you not READ? They. Do. Not. Talk. About. It. You will not find any documentation from any major network about their backbone or inter-carrier utilization. If you've ever worked for, or with, any major network you've very likely signed NDAs to that effect; in any case, you'd be fired for revealing the dirty little secret(s).

Fiber is not run one strand at a time. Every major fiber line is a bundle of fiber lines, most of which are dark. Many have 20+ fiber strands in them.

It takes equipment to light fiber. Quite expensive equipment, in fact. And it has two ends -- just like sausage. Within your own network, that just 2x the equipment. When the other end is someone else, more than money gets involved.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 edit

DataRiker

Premium Member

If a major backbone was at capacity hundreds of thousands of users would be affected on a daily basis. Sorry, not buying it.

100% BS

Generally when a major transit even gets close to 70%, there is a mad dash to double capacity quickly.

houkouonchi
join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA

houkouonchi

Member

said by DataRiker:

If a major backbone was at capacity hundreds of thousands of users would be affected on a daily basis. Sorry, not buying it.

100% BS

Generally when a major transit even gets close to 70%, there is a mad dash to double capacity quickly.

Well Cogent is a major backbone although not quite teir-1 yet. They have been having a lot of issues of saturation in a lot of markets since they took on netflix traffic.

I know Cogent -> Verizon has been saturated for 20 hours/day for like 3 months now. I didn't know they picked up netflix traffic originally and figured some links went down or something as usually that type of issue is gradual but one day it went from being fine to 15 hours/day of being saturated (and then just got worse).

Also seen problems in L.A. with cogent -> time warner as well and people have reported Cogent -> AT&T in chicago. Not all transit providers build out their network with a lot of overhead (unfortunately).
Expand your moderator at work

kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium Member
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY

kingdome74 to houkouonchi

Premium Member

to houkouonchi

Re: 500/100 Package available.

According to the VZ site I can upgrade my Prime 50/25 @104.99 no contract to 500/100 for +210 w/2 year contract.
serge87
join:2009-11-29
New York

serge87

Member

said by kingdome74:

According to the VZ site I can upgrade my Prime 50/25 @104.99 no contract to 500/100 for +210 w/2 year contract.

$210? not too bad since I was paying $215 for 300/65. I'm not seeing the 500/100 on my end even though I only live a few miles over.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

DataRiker to houkouonchi

Premium Member

to houkouonchi
said by houkouonchi:

said by DataRiker:

If a major backbone was at capacity hundreds of thousands of users would be affected on a daily basis. Sorry, not buying it.

100% BS

Generally when a major transit even gets close to 70%, there is a mad dash to double capacity quickly.

Well Cogent is a major backbone although not quite teir-1 yet. They have been having a lot of issues of saturation in a lot of markets since they took on netflix traffic.

I know Cogent -> Verizon has been saturated for 20 hours/day for like 3 months now. I didn't know they picked up netflix traffic originally and figured some links went down or something as usually that type of issue is gradual but one day it went from being fine to 15 hours/day of being saturated (and then just got worse).

Also seen problems in L.A. with cogent -> time warner as well and people have reported Cogent -> AT&T in chicago. Not all transit providers build out their network with a lot of overhead (unfortunately).

I'm just curious, how do you know this is a cogent issue? I have a hard time believing Cogent will leave a segment at 100% and bleeding for more than a few hours without addressing the issue, absent a peering dispute of course.

K3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium Member
join:2006-01-17
Columbia, PA

K3SGM to houkouonchi

Premium Member

to houkouonchi
They should give a free 1 week preview so everybody could try it out(at least if you are already set up for GPON), sort of like they do with the premium channels.
I might want to upgrade, but this time, my kids are going to cover the bill, because they have been begging for 300/65 ever since it came out.

bohratom
My Jersey Giants finally winning again..
join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ

bohratom

Member

said by K3SGM:

I might want to upgrade, but this time, my kids are going to cover the bill, because they have been begging for 300/65 ever since it came out.

Kids needing 300/65 is just , well nevermind won't say it...

BTW I have 2 kids so don't jump to conclusions....
aerith
Premium Member
join:2008-12-31
Milpitas, CA

aerith to K3SGM

Premium Member

to K3SGM
Well, don't let your kids move anywhere else, then.

If your kids need 300 mbps just for download, later on in life, you need to advise to find a place (the sooner the better,) that has PURE fiber optic (NOT San Francisco Bay Area).

To me, 300 mbps is really extreme, I guess your kids do some hardcore downloading, then, so as well, your kids can't go with any cable company, because of the AUP.
webcobbler
join:2013-03-09
Rumson, NJ

webcobbler to bohratom

Member

to bohratom
If I grew up now, instead of the early 80's, I would probably be wanting/spoiled to have these kinds of internet speeds. Don't get me wrong, I would love the fastest speed that made sense and affordable. For me, that is the 150/65 connection. I both want and need that for business and pleasure.

But alas, I grew up without internet until around '95ish. Then with a Dial-Up 128k connection (at most) ... i was like " This is fast."

My dad still says : you don't need anything over "this" speed.
OR : I remember when... It makes me laugh, sometimes.

Ahh... The Good-ol' Days, when you actually had to read books , and did research papers looking in an encyclopedia, and went to the Library to check out books etc.
SCADAGeo
Premium Member
join:2012-11-08
N California

SCADAGeo to DataRiker

Premium Member

to DataRiker
said by DataRiker:

said by houkouonchi:

said by DataRiker:

Generally when a major transit even gets close to 70%, there is a mad dash to double capacity quickly.

I didn't know they picked up netflix traffic originally and figured some links went down or something as usually that type of issue is gradual but one day it went from being fine to 15 hours/day of being saturated (and then just got worse).
---
Not all transit providers build out their network with a lot of overhead (unfortunately).

I'm just curious, how do you know this is a cogent issue? I have a hard time believing Cogent will leave a segment at 100% and bleeding for more than a few hours without addressing the issue, absent a peering dispute of course.

GigaOM: Having problems with your Netflix? You can blame Verizon.

Last year, Netflix annouced their Open Connect Network.
quote:
Like commercial CDNs, Open Connect will provide the Netflix data at no cost to the locations the ISP desires, or ISPs can choose to get the Netflix data at common internet exchanges. About 5% of Netflix data is already being served by Open Connect. Interested ISPs can find full details at: openconnect.netflix.com.

 
Here are some links that may be of interest:

   GigaOM: How Netflix built its OpenConnect cache to speed up your video streams

   GigaOM: Verizon: That peering flap (about Netflix) is Cogent’s fault

   GigaOM: Peering pressure: The secret battle to control the future of the internet

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hYHTFRbEsbIJ:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324520904578553322301310846.html
 

The Google Cache link of the Wall Street Journal Online article will have to be copied and pasted... DSLr kept munging the link. :(