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muzicman82

join:2011-12-05
Woodstown, NJ

Anyone UPS Protecting ONT / Router?

Hi all,

I am just planning ahead for the worst. I have the Motorola ONT1000GJ4 box with the Actiontec MI424WR-GEN3I. I'm trying to decide on a UPS to keep Internet up during a power outage (or attempt to). I use APC products regularly, but am wondering if anyone here already has a UPS on theirs, which one, and what maximum runtime is. Anyone know what the VA / Watts would be for this ONT plus the router?

RJW1678

join:2003-01-15
Wilmington, DE
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
I have a CyberPower 1500PFCLCD 1500va UPS backing up the Motorola ONT1000GT4 box and the Actiontec MI424WR Rev.I . They use about 30va/19watts. My CyberPower 1500va UPS says I have about 2 1/2 hours of backup time on a 100% charge of the batteries. UPS units are very inefficient converting 12volt DC to 120 volt AC and therefore they do not give more than a couple of hours of backup time(even if the devices being backed up do not use much electricity). After about 20 seconds my whole house standby generator restores electricity to my house and the UPS thinks the electricity has been restored, so I do not have to worry about long UPS run time.

Later
Bob W.

tnsprin

join:2003-07-23
Bradenton, FL
kudos:1
reply to muzicman82
Ont's are essentially UPS protected, with their battery backup. Unfortunately they let the internet and TV drop off after a few minutes leaving only phone service active. I have my router and computer on a UPS.


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
reply to muzicman82
I have my ONT and router on an APC BR1500 (1500VA).
Gives me several hours of backup.

I removed the battery from the BBU when the battery died since I don't have VZ's phone service.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

muzicman82

join:2011-12-05
Woodstown, NJ
said by More Fiber:

I have my ONT and router on an APC BR1500 (1500VA).
Gives me several hours of backup.

I removed the battery from the BBU when the battery died since I don't have VZ's phone service.

I am actually considering the BR1500G which looks to be the newer version of the same. Many of the reviews I have read suggested I most people will want to get the optional external battery pack. I'm thinking I don't need it for just the ONT and Router? I guess it is nice that I could start with this and add later?

Does the ONT battery ONLY do POTS or does it provide backup for the whole ONT?


HD_Ride
Premium
join:2000-10-18
Jerseyastan
reply to muzicman82
I’d purchased four APC UPS units several years ago and put one on my ONT when we got Fios back in 2006. I have the cheaper APC BackUPS 350 ~ 450 series but there are good enough to have my computers do a graceful shutdown. Combined my ONT, APC 350 UPS, D-Link 8-port Ethernet switch and Nim100 draw 38watts. My router isn’t an ActionTec and it’s in another location however IIRC the old ActionTect Rev A were about 24watts whereas my TP-Link router only draws about 3.5 watts

I also have backup generator (portable & Transfer Switch) but I still keep the UPS on the ONT since it’s not hurting anything and keeps the phone up until I could get my Gen fired up. My theory was prior to getting the Gen the UPS would keep the phone up until the UPS battery drained before switching over to the ONT battery backup, then at that point it would be limited emergency use for the phone as I understand it


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to muzicman82
said by muzicman82:

Hi all,

I am just planning ahead for the worst. I have the Motorola ONT1000GJ4 box with the Actiontec MI424WR-GEN3I. I'm trying to decide on a UPS to keep Internet up during a power outage (or attempt to). I use APC products regularly, but am wondering if anyone here already has a UPS on theirs, which one, and what maximum runtime is. Anyone know what the VA / Watts would be for this ONT plus the router?

I use an APC 1500XL with an extended runtime battery attached. My ONT and router are plugged into this UPS. This way I can get 16 to 18 hours of runtime during a power outage. So I can continue watching Tv, using the internet, or using phone service. all my other electronics are also on APC UPSs with extended runtime batteries.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to RJW1678
said by RJW1678:

I have a CyberPower 1500PFCLCD 1500va UPS backing up the Motorola ONT1000GT4 box and the Actiontec MI424WR Rev.I . They use about 30va/19watts. My CyberPower 1500va UPS says I have about 2 1/2 hours of backup time on a 100% charge of the batteries. UPS units are very inefficient converting 12volt DC to 120 volt AC and therefore they do not give more than a couple of hours of backup time(even if the devices being backed up do not use much electricity). After about 20 seconds my whole house standby generator restores electricity to my house and the UPS thinks the electricity has been restored.

Later
Bob W.

For many years I've been getting between 2 hours and 18 hours of runtime from my APC UPSs. Depending on the devices and the load on them. For instance my Alarm system gets 18 hours of runtime from the APC UPS it's on before the alarms internal battery takes over. My ONT and router gets up to 18 hours of runtime too on the UPS they are plugged into. And my TiVos get over 12 hours of runtime on the UPSs they are on. Although the ones that have my TVs, receivers, subwoofers, PCs, etc. only get around 2 to 5 hours of runtime depending on the load.

muzicman82

join:2011-12-05
Woodstown, NJ
reply to aaronwt
said by aaronwt See Profile
I use an APC 1500XL with an extended runtime battery attached. My ONT and router are plugged into this UPS. This way I can get 16 to 18 hours of runtime during a power outage. So I can continue watching Tv, using the internet, or using phone service. all my other electronics are also on APC UPSs with extended runtime batteries.
[/BQUOTE :

That one is nice. I have a SMART UPS 1500SC which I love. HEAVY but yeah... gets the job done. It's saved me several times during some video / audio editing projects. In one case, my house lost power literally 15 minutes before a 23 hour render job was complete. Paid for itself right then and there.



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
reply to muzicman82
said by muzicman82:

Does the ONT battery ONLY do POTS or does it provide backup for the whole ONT?

The BBU supports TV and internet for 5 minutes in the event of a power failure.
After 5 minutes, only the phone section of the ONT is supported.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


bluepoint

join:2001-03-24
reply to More Fiber
said by More Fiber:

I removed the battery from the BBU when the battery died since I don't have VZ's phone service.

No alarm from the ONT without the battery?

Bob99

join:2001-12-07
Teaneck, NJ
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to muzicman82
said by muzicman82:

Does the ONT battery ONLY do POTS or does it provide backup for the whole ONT?

said by tnsprin:

Ont's are essentially UPS protected, with their battery backup. Unfortunately they let the internet and TV drop off after a few minutes leaving only phone service active.

said by More Fiber:

The BBU supports TV and internet for 5 minutes in the event of a power failure.
After 5 minutes, only the phone section of the ONT is supported.

It seems to vary depending on what ONT you have. Verizon tells you that the battery only backs up the phone, but my Alcatel-Lucent I-211M-H ONT keeps both phone and internet powered for hours. (I don't have FiOS TV.) It has never run more than a few hours on the battery, so I don't know whether it would eventually drop the internet, but it certainly gives me a lot more than 5 minutes. I don't know if it makes any difference, but I have Ethernet from the ONT to the router.


KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FiOS
said by Bob99:

Verizon tells you that the battery only backs up the phone, but my Alcatel-Lucent I-211M-H ONT keeps both phone and internet powered for hours.

I also have an Alcatel-Lucent I-211M-H
I've unplugged it, and ran a stopwatch test on numerous occasions, and the Ethernet and TV connection lasts exactly 15 minutes on the battery alone.

More than 5 min, but not hours.

Oh, and I do have an APC SU750XL UPS that the ONT and Router are always plugged into.

Long UPS run-time isn't really an issue though, as long as the generator fires up..
--
ROCK 'TIL SUNSET

RJW1678

join:2003-01-15
Wilmington, DE
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

4 edits
reply to aaronwt
I prefer an UPS that has about a 2 1/2 hour backup and a generator for extended electric outages. Because a smaller UPS costs less and a generator is a better solution for extended electric outages. A gasoline generator with quality voltage regulation costs between $600-$1500(depending on size) - while a whole house standby generator(that runs off of natural gas) costs a lot more - but either one is a better choice in an extended electric outage. I feel that I have to look out for myself since emergency services from the government & charity org's have proven to be very limited.

Later,
Bob W.

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Bob99
It is short sighted when so many subscribers have 3rd party voip... that's why I keep a cellphone at the ready.. I also have backup hansets for 911. You should be allowed to program what services it keeps running since it is your power.. it should be your choice, not Verizon's or the ont makers'. In extreme disasters, even cell & pots have been known to fail as well. Plain old CB, HAM (more recently GMRS) radios have been lifesavers in disasters going back generations. Chances are SOMEBODY in your town has one.. Assume all traditional telecom services can fail.. Between 9/11, the 2003 northeast blackout and Sandy, you should have analog resources available & an emergency kit/go bag.
I don't have a ups dedicated & connected to the fios power module, but if I needed to, I could hook it up in an emergency but it would take 5 mins for the ont to reset & the router/voip box to do their thing. Cellphone would be much quicker. I don't believe in running (personal) generators to make oil companies more rich just for electricity; it is not cost effective. We should be demanding better emergency services (equitably distributed) from government & charity org's, not ourselves.

BTW, this has been discussed plenty over the years.. but generally important to make newcomers aware of the issues and possible solutions.


RolteC
0h

join:2001-05-20
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1
reply to muzicman82
I learned from brownouts, power outages, etc. Too bad I didn't have one during the really bad summer storm and heat of 2010. But I have one and it saved my equipment during Sandy - constant power drops and brownouts. My equipment stayed on without interruption. Not only that, but it protects everything.


buckingham
Buckingham Pa
Premium
join:2005-07-17
Buckingham, PA
reply to muzicman82
Yes, I have an external UPS in my MDF for the ONT and router. I have another one in a second distribution point at the other end of the house (an addition that was wired separately from the original house footprint).


HD_Ride
Premium
join:2000-10-18
Jerseyastan
reply to muzicman82
said by RolteC:

I learned from brownouts, power outages, etc. Too bad I didn't have one during the really bad summer storm and heat of 2010. But I have one and it saved my equipment during Sandy - constant power drops and brownouts. My equipment stayed on without interruption. Not only that, but it protects everything.


^
^
^
THIS


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to muzicman82
Back durning hurricane Sandy I used a 175W inverter plugged into a battery jump pack which has a 17 Ah battery to power the ONT I did that for internet.. I don't remember how long it lasted for but I did not have an issue with the lack of internet after.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to RJW1678
said by RJW1678:

I prefer an UPS that has about a 2 1/2 hour backup and a generator for extended electric outages. Because a smaller UPS costs less and a generator is a better solution for extended electric outages. A gasoline generator with quality voltage regulation costs between $600-$1500(depending on size) - while a whole house standby generator(that runs off of natural gas) costs a lot more - but either one is a better choice in an extended electric outage. I feel that I have to look out for myself since emergency services from the government & charity org's have proven to be very limited.

Later,
Bob W.

I would love to have a generator but I live in a condo so it isn't an option for me. If I lived in a house I would have one, but then I would have other things to deal with in a house which are a PITA to me.

Aluminum
Premium
join:2006-01-23
Mclean, VA
reply to muzicman82

ONT may use PoE 48V

Something to look into if you want to get around the losses and not so great run time from double conversion while on UPS battery. (Battery 12VDC>Wart 110VAC>ONT 48VDC)

My ONT (SFH 612a) has a 110V wall wart but all that does is supply 48VDC over a a few pairs of cat 5 cable, this makes it a LOT easier for verizon to put it away from wall outlets without having to worry about electric codes as much. (they use their own connector, but its easy to use your wiring)

Since I live and breathe servers etc for a living, I can tell you this is a well known standard, 802.3af, aka power over ethernet, PoE. Tons of office junk runs on this, pretty much any voip phone, camera, whatever small appliance that is also on the network.

There are quite a few UPSes out there that support this, you can dig around and find some ex-data center/telecom models with large batteries REALLY cheap. Maybe even free because nobody else wants them when a server farm gets decommissioned.
Barring that there are a lot of network switches that supply 48V, if you want to keep your lan running during power outages it can do both jobs in once device.

If you power it this way instead of trying to bother with the tiny 12V battery inside, it will not know the power failed and all services will stay up, not just phone.

As a side benefit it will be probably be more efficient under normal running as well, wall warts tend to waste a lot because they are cheap pieces of crap but they are such low wattage nobody cares. (Cell phones chargers took some europeans getting mad and passing laws to stop sucking, esp when idle. Standardizing the plug to make usb 5V so common was great too)

Note: some PoE stuff uses 24V or other non-standard voltages, double check.

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
reply to RolteC

Re: Anyone UPS Protecting ONT / Router?

My power module died after sandy (many brown-outs in my area-- but had power most of the time), but I didn't know until I re-subscribed at the end of June. I got a fresh SLA battery for my trouble too. Servicing the equipment is VERIZON's responsibility. They might try to make you buy a battery.. but if the power module or ONT dies at the same time, they might as well go and give you a new battery as well.


Raphion

join:2000-10-14
Samsara
reply to muzicman82
APC 1500XS, runs ONT, router, and AP for a minimum of 7 hours.

bemis

join:2008-07-18
Reading, MA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to muzicman82
I have a Cyberpower 1000. With the ONT, Actiontec, cordless phone base and (2) 5 port D-Link routers I will get about an hour, maybe two, before it's dead.

Something to think about it... most affordable UPS' will not work when connected to a small generator. The UPS will declare the power to be bad and refuse to charge and in some (all actually I think?) cases that means the devices plugged in go dark when the UPS battery dies.

I've heard that it has to do with variability in the frequency and that larger generators do not have the problem, that may be true, I don't know... I do know that my UPS will not charge from my 4500W generator...

My UPS will also not charge from the 1500W inverter that I use on a large 12V marine battery... in that case I'm told it's because my inverter is a square wave output, not sine wave... I prefer the battery and inverter in power loss situation because it makes no noise, generates no fumes and I can set it up without going outside.

The fixes are:
- Better generator... preferably a Honda inverter generator that puts out a pure sine wave
- Better inverter... a pure sine wave inverter...
- A "double conversion" UPS such as the Smart-UPS line, these are able to make use of the lower quality power provided by small generators and modified sine inverters.

In my case I have FIOS DV and T-Mobile cell service. Because I have no signal from T-Mo in my neighborhood I rely exclusively on the WiFi Calling feature ... so if FIOS is down I have no home phone or cell phone (unless I drive out of the neighborhood).

bgraham

join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
reply to muzicman82
Click for full size
The guy in the jeep kept on asking about internet
Click for full size
Click for full size
Every time we have a good storm here a UPS is pretty useless because the power cables and fiber optic get torn to shreds. I had a UPS on my ONT for a while, but a thunderstorm killed it. After that we had Irene and Sandy and had no power, no internet and no connection from the house to anything for 2 weeks, so I gave up on the UPS.


RolteC
0h

join:2001-05-20
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1
Sorry to hear/see the damage.

A UPS is, IMHO, used to protect equipment from the quick loss and return of power, brownouts, or complete blackouts that require equipment to be shut down safely with the least possibility of any bad voltages damaging it. Power conditioners do the same thing for sound/TV equipment, but don't have battery backups. I might be crazy but I have both a UPS and power conditioner for my parents cable box/sound system/TV.

A generator is good for areas that are hard hit and lose power for extended periods of time. Its good to have a UPS, actually, its highly recommended to protect your equipment. A generator, not much, as it won't be used as often - but this all depends on where you live!

Remember, a UPS/power conditioner, will help protect devices. A generator will supply power during times of need. But to use both together, you need to check for compatibility - pure sine wave on both is the key to what I am hearing.

As I said above, I don't live anywhere crazy - Queens. But I did experience a lightning strike nearby once which fried my network equipment and blew out a TV in the house. I then purchased power conditioner. Then I experienced brown-outs/power outages. SO I purchased UPS's. Experienced a nasty storm in 2010, everything was saved - no exaggeration, but the power during those 30 seconds was flashing on/off/dimming like crazy till it finally gave out. I could have only imagined what that could have done to my LED TV's/server rack and equipment. Then Sandy hit, my area didn't lose power completely but according to SMTP logs, brownouts and low voltage occurred around 200 times that day.

Once again, these things aren't required, but sure do help when the unexpected happens!


buckingham
Buckingham Pa
Premium
join:2005-07-17
Buckingham, PA
I agree with RolteC...UPS for "short term" outages is nice to have, especially for those of us who work from home. I did keep things up and running for nearly a week during Sandy using a generator, however. No lines down here; just no power.

mloebl

join:2003-01-03
Tyngsboro, MA
Same here as well. We moved to a street at the end of the electrical string in a pretty rural area, with our power lines going 200' thru the woods (so definitely low on priorities depending on where issue is.) We have power flickers a couple times a month, and lost power probably 5 or 6 times in the last year since we moved in. Compare that to the slightly more populated area I used to live in that I can only think of a handful of outages in the 10 years I was there.

We put in a small standby generator that kicks after about 15s of downtime (2 months before Sandy, glad we did...) But have UPS on everything to get them thru until the generator kicks over. I didn't bother with the ONT as figured the battery there was enough. If I was still living in a condo, I'd consider probably a decent size UPS to keep me going for awhile with the ONT.

In case the generator fails, I also (thanks to the Halloween storm a couple years ago and living in a condo with limited options), have a small portable 55w solar panel, small charge controller and some gel cell batteries to charge for cell phones and other misc 12v items. Though won't help much for FIOS, I can at least get some cell coverage or use my tablet.

-Mike


KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FiOS
reply to bemis
said by bemis:

Something to think about it... most affordable UPS' will not work when connected to a small generator. The UPS will declare the power to be bad and refuse to charge and in some (all actually I think?) cases that means the devices plugged in go dark when the UPS battery dies.

I've heard that it has to do with variability in the frequency and that larger generators do not have the problem, that may be true, I don't know... I do know that my UPS will not charge from my 4500W generator...

My UPS will also not charge from the 1500W inverter that I use on a large 12V marine battery... in that case I'm told it's because my inverter is a square wave output, not sine wave... I prefer the battery and inverter in power loss situation because it makes no noise, generates no fumes and I can set it up without going outside.

I would find someone with a O-Scope and a good Peak/RMS reading Digital multimeter.

Take a good look at exactly what kind of waveform you are getting off the inverter, and no matter what type or size of generator you are using, you need to calibrate it on a routine basis.

I have the "better" Honda 3.5kw generator, and the APC Smart UPS, but, you still have to put a meter that reads line frequency on it and make sure that thing is set dead at 60Hz.

It's going to vary a bit between no-load, moderate-load, and full-load, but depending what the sensitivity adjustment is set to on the UPS, something as little as +/- 1Hz off from 60Hz will drive UPS's crazy.

Check the manual for your specific model, but the frequency adjustment should be on, or around, the carburetor.

Read the instructions for the UPS to see how to turn down the sensitivity, it may be via an external button, or you may need to hook up to the serial port and change it via software.

If it's a line-interactive UPS, the software settings should also let you set the high an low trip points, where the UPS stops trying to compensate for a bad line voltage and switches to battery.

Some times the factory settings are set a bit tight(114-126v), but you can widen the range to probably 106-134v without any problems.
--
ROCK 'TIL SUNSET

bemis

join:2008-07-18
Reading, MA
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by KA3SGM:

Take a good look at exactly what kind of waveform you are getting off the inverter, and no matter what type or size of generator you are using, you need to calibrate it on a routine basis.

My generator's instructions don't include any frequency adjustment, which I would imagine comes down to engine speed...

said by KA3SGM:

Read the instructions for the UPS to see how to turn down the sensitivity, it may be via an external button, or you may need to hook up to the serial port and change it via software.

If it's a line-interactive UPS, the software settings should also let you set the high an low trip points, where the UPS stops trying to compensate for a bad line voltage and switches to battery.

My UPS is a $100 consumer model, I've never bothered w/ the software (via USB) but I will check it. I know it's not line interactive and there are definitely no switches on the unit itself. The problem is not with the voltage as far as I know because my DMM reads 120V out and the meter on the panel of the generator says 120V.

The voltage of inverter is also pretty steady at 118-121V, so I don't think it should be an issue for the UPS...

I haven't ever looked at the wave-form, or checked the frequency of either of them.