dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
2230

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

1 edit

Darknessfall

Premium Member

How Congested is Your Neighborhood's Wireless?/Best Channel

Click for full size
2.4 GHz with adapter high up
Click for full size
5 GHz with adapter high up
Click for full size
2.4 GHz with adapter plugged into back of computer
So I have two questions, how congested is your neighborhood on both bands? Second, what channel do you suggest is best for me?

I let my wireless adapter scan for hours in multiple directions while being elevated off the ground a decent amount.

Netgear A6200 Adapter
Channel: Number of APs(Not including mine or guest networks)
2.4GHz -
1:9(Two bonding 1+5)
2:4(Two bonding 2+6)
3:2
4:4
5:1
6:5
7:2
8:1
9:2
10:4
11:13(14 if you count the AT&T vans/trucks that broadcast a network when they come by)
5 GHz -
36:1(Bonding 36+40)
40:0
44:0
48:0
149:1(Bonding 149+153)
153:0
157:2(Bonding 157+161)
161:0
165:0

NOTE:Some networks may only be seen very rarely, but have shown up in range at times. Figured I would add them since they must cross my network's signal at one point.

Shown with the picture I'm on channel 6 currently(The second AP on 6 is mine too) and for 5 GHz I bond 36+40+44+48. I know I shouldn't bond, but I'm just trying to push people off the channel . Is that the best channel for me? Also my 2nd AP is just temporary so I know that I shouldn't use the same channel for both.

I may have made a thread about this before(I think), but a lot has changed since then.
Darknessfall

Darknessfall

Premium Member

Well, had a power outage this morning and everyone(Except 4 or so with battery backup) changed channels... guess those pictures mean absolutely nothing now.

Kinda sad that I didn't manage to get all of my networks on channel 6 before they all booted up. Regretting that I didn't turn on my gateway's wireless before it went down since it has battery backup.

Semaphore
Premium Member
join:2003-11-18
101010

Semaphore

Premium Member

Do you find there is actually a problem? Or are you speculating that there is a problem because other AP's show up in the spectrum scan ? If you have 20dB or more SNR then you probably are not seeing any ill effects in modulation as a result of those nearby AP's. A difference of 20dB is enormous. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBm

If you actually are seeing issues because of the nearby noise then the best option is probably narrower channels if your kit supports it as that will increase spectral density at the Rx points and offset the carrier channels (thereby mitigating collisions to some degree).

IMHO Bonding is popular because it looks impressive but unless the spectrum is quite clean (e.g. 30+ dB SNR) it usually ends up with poorer performance than narrower channels with lesser SNR.

S

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by Semaphore:

Do you find there is actually a problem? Or are you speculating that there is a problem because other AP's show up in the spectrum scan ? If you have 20dB or more SNR then you probably are not seeing any ill effects in modulation as a result of those nearby AP's. A difference of 20dB is enormous. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBm

If you actually are seeing issues because of the nearby noise then the best option is probably narrower channels if your kit supports it as that will increase spectral density at the Rx points and offset the carrier channels (thereby mitigating collisions to some degree).

IMHO Bonding is popular because it looks impressive but unless the spectrum is quite clean (e.g. 30+ dB SNR) it usually ends up with poorer performance than narrower channels with lesser SNR.

S

Oh, I don't use bonding normally. I just have it on to try to push routers onto other channels . I tried channel 1/11 and they're pretty poor in range compared to 6. Would I be better off on a non standard 1,6,11 channel with all of these overlapping?

I think I'm just speculating, but I have seen my range drop quite a bit if I choose other channels.

Semaphore
Premium Member
join:2003-11-18
101010

Semaphore

Premium Member

said by Darknessfall:

Oh, I don't use bonding normally. I just have it on to try to push routers onto other channels . I tried channel 1/11 and they're pretty poor in range compared to 6. Would I be better off on a non standard 1,6,11 channel with all of these overlapping?

I think I'm just speculating, but I have seen my range drop quite a bit if I choose other channels.

Non standard channels would have an 'advantage' in that you'd probably only see one part of the spectrum you are operating on being 'busy' at a time because you would not be fully overlapping with any one device - unless it's someone else doing the same thing. The downside is that the spectrum gets a little dirtier for everyone.

You might see better performance in the middle of the spectrum because of antenna 'tuning' on the devices involved.

You may also be experiencing a Fresnel refraction or a 'standing wave' from adjacent RF Reflective surfaces that just happen to be exactly in phase with the wavelength used, it does happen, although rarely.

Another possibility would be true RF noise that is not caused by a Wifi device that is polluting the spectrum like a TDMA wireless link, Cordless phone, Cordless headset, TV repeater, Power meter etc... lots of things will make RF noise both inside and right beside the 2.4 ISM band and can cause problems but you need a real spectrum scanner to actually see those things, not something that's looking for Carrier on known channels which I think is what you are using (?)

S

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17

Darknessfall

Premium Member

Yeah, all I am using is an AP scanner. I can't actually see anything else. We use a cordless phone, but it's older and only uses 900 MHz(Uniden EXAI978i).

Semaphore
Premium Member
join:2003-11-18
101010

Semaphore

Premium Member

A Lot of the 900's Rx'd on 900 and Tx'd on 2.4... but it could be almost anything if you're not using an SA you won't "see" it.

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by Semaphore:

A Lot of the 900's Rx'd on 900 and Tx'd on 2.4... but it could be almost anything if you're not using an SA you won't "see" it.

Eh, guess I'll just turn on auto mode on my Linksys and call it a day. It seems to do a lot better with auto than other routers I tried.

Most of those real scanners are really expensive and not worth it just to gain a little range.

Hopefully this auto mode can actually see congestion that I cannot with basic scanners. At least it's not an auto mode that goes solely based off number per channel. Those auto modes can put you on the same channel as another AP of yours.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall to Darknessfall

MVM

to Darknessfall
At what dBm level does it matter ? What I mean is, some of those signals may be so weak, even though you can "see" them, can't they be ignored ? I can only see (3) other wireless networks and they're -87 dBm and worse - likely due to aluminum siding on my house not letting them in much.

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

1 edit

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by Hall:

At what dBm level does it matter ? What I mean is, some of those signals may be so weak, even though you can "see" them, can't they be ignored ? I can only see (3) other wireless networks and they're -87 dBm and worse - likely due to aluminum siding on my house not letting them in much.

Since the power outage/my neighbor being dumb, it got a lot worse.

Now, my neighbor has three APs up. That one person has an AP on 1, 2+6, and 11. My other neighbors have one up on 4, 10, and 10.

Figures that I get stuck next to the neighbor that has no clue what's he's doing and is destroying me across the whole 2.4 GHz with - 65 to -75 dBm signals.

I try to break up his 2+6 bonding, but nothing I try works. I'm trying to get his router to stop bonding to free up 6, but I can have about 3 G/B networks on it and the Netgear doesn't care :/.
Darknessfall

4 edits

Darknessfall

Premium Member

- Nevermind

billaustin
they call me Mr. Bill
MVM
join:2001-10-13
North Las Vegas, NV

billaustin to Darknessfall

MVM

to Darknessfall
Your neighbor is doing what anyone here would recommend, his AP's are on channels 1, 6, and 11. The one on channel 6 is set for full N and bonding channel 2 to achieve it. The most you could do is create enough interference on channels 1 to 4 that it stops bonding channel 2 and reduces his N speed to half. About the only thing you can do is set your AP's to auto and live with it.

I would recommend switching as much as possible to 5ghz and wired connections. You may need to put up additional AP's to get full 5ghz coverage.

You might also check into the wi-fi blocking paint. Paint the outside of your house with it, or the inside of all your outer walls. Get some of the UV blocking tint to go on your windows. There is a type that has some metal in it and will help attenuate the wi-fi from outside.

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

Oh, all of his routers are on auto. His other router has a main channel of 2 and not 6. The extension channel is 6. He's pretty much overlapping himself with the two main channels of 1 and 2.

There's actually WiFi blocking paint? I never heard of that until now. Seems they make everything now .

I tried channel 11 and it was absolutely terrible. My speed kept ranging from 4-18 Mbps as it kept jumping up and down. Guess 6 is where I stay.

I tried causing enough interference to stop the bonding, but nothing works. If it does, the router constantly keeps unbonding and rebonding every 4 seconds as seen by inssider and doesn't actually stop. I can set up about 3 G networks on it and it does not care at all.

billaustin
they call me Mr. Bill
MVM
join:2001-10-13
North Las Vegas, NV

billaustin

MVM

I don't remember the brand name(s) it is sold under, but it is advertised as a wi-fi blocking paint. It has metal flakes in it that attenuate the wi-fi signal. There are other options also available, like putting aluminum siding on the house, or lining the walls with aluminum foil.

I would suggest a battery backup for your wireless gear. That way, when the others reboot from a power event, yours is already active for the Auto Channel Scanners to try and avoid.

tipstir
join:2004-11-14
Boca Raton, FL

tipstir to Darknessfall

Member

to Darknessfall
No issues here.. Although one neighbor doesn't use encryption and I know he's using apple network gear. We're kinda spread out here.

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by tipstir:

No issues here.. Although one neighbor doesn't use encryption and I know he's using apple network gear. We're kinda spread out here.

Then again, it drastically changes when I put my adapter in the back of my computer. I can only see about 3-5 other networks when I do that. More if I turn my adapter's antenna up straight.
Darknessfall

2 edits

Darknessfall

Premium Member

"Grins"
Noticed my neighbor's two main APs went down about 20 minutes ago.

"Preps all APs on channel 1 and 6"

billaustin
they call me Mr. Bill
MVM
join:2001-10-13
North Las Vegas, NV

billaustin

MVM

Did it help any?

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

1 edit

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by billaustin:

Did it help any?

They just changed ISPs.

I got their ISP AP to go to channel 11 and the installer unplugged their other router it seems. Hopefully they don't put it back . So channel 1 and 6 is decent now.

Channel 11 is absolutely terrible for throughput. Good thing I pushed them to it :P.

But, the ISP AP does 5 GHz now too.

John97
Over The Hills And Far Away
Premium Member
join:2000-11-14
Spring Hill, FL

John97 to Darknessfall

Premium Member

to Darknessfall
The beauty of living in a golf course development around old folks. I have a limited amount of immediate neighbors and most of them don't even know what the Internet is.

Inside my house, I pick up no other wireless. Out front, the Wireless Analyzer app on my phone can pick up a very weak signal from another wireless network. It's open, and the signal is not strong enough to even try and connect to.

Darknessfall
Premium Member
join:2012-08-17
Motorola MG8725
Asus RT-N66

Darknessfall

Premium Member

said by John97:

The beauty of living in a golf course development around old folks. I have a limited amount of immediate neighbors and most of them don't even know what the Internet is.

Inside my house, I pick up no other wireless. Out front, the Wireless Analyzer app on my phone can pick up a very weak signal from another wireless network. It's open, and the signal is not strong enough to even try and connect to.

Lucky .

My neighbors seemed to have put up their other AP again and it's taking up the whole 2.4 GHz along with their AP on 11 now. I had a great channel 1 until they decided to ruin it again .