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DrugTito

join:2013-01-17
canada

1 recommendation

UPS - APC

Hello guys,

What would be the best place to buy refurbished (or new - if good priced) UPS?

Only DCM476 and RT-N66U will be on this UPS.
I would love to have something that could keep Modem\Router online for at least 15-25 minutes if power is out.

I work from home, being online is very important for me.

I already have Back-UPS 1500 (XS) for my main PC, but, as i moved router \ modem to other side of the room, i need new UPS for modem\router.

Should i go with »www.upsforless.ca/ ?

I was thinking about something like:
»www.upsforless.ca/apcbp700ref.aspx

Thanks!

idaggerpwn

join:2013-05-09
Scarborough, ON
I'm not sure what is the best place to buy a refurbished UPS but the DCM476 and RT-N66U does not use much power. I have a 550VA UPS that lasts more than an hour and a half with the DCM476, RT-N66U, and SPA112. A 700VA is unnecessary unless you live in an area that often experiences long power outages.


DrugTito

join:2013-01-17
canada
Are you happy with this product?

Longer = better, i would hook up my LED to it as well, since, as you mentioned Modem\Router don't use much power.

Should i consider any other UPS?

Thanks

eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14
reply to idaggerpwn
I never understood if 500va is 300 watts and the modem/router take 30 watts shouldn't it be 10 hours not 2 of runtume?

idaggerpwn

join:2013-05-09
Scarborough, ON
reply to DrugTito
Yeah I'm pretty satisfied with my 550VA APC UPS. I only have had a handful of opportunities to see it into action though (it's pretty rare to have power outages in my area). Longer may be better, but it is rare that you'll have a power outage that last more than 2 hours.

eeaddict: I'm not too sure how the calculation works for an UPS. I can see from apcupsd that currently my 550VA is at 6% load, and it has an estimated battery run time of 105.9 minutes.


Davesnothere
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reply to eeeaddict
said by eeeaddict:

I never understood if 500va is 300 watts and the modem/router take 30 watts shouldn't it be 10 hours not 2 of runtume?

 
Ah (Ampere hour) rating of battery is the main factor influencing runtime, not the W or VA of the electronics of the power inverter in the unit, which instead only tells you how hard you can load it without damage.

Even THEN, calcs are not as easy as we would like them to be, as how heavy the load is (% of max) makes a disproportionate diff to the answer.

APC's website used to have a pulldown menu-driven estimator for that, for the Smart UPS series at least, mayhaps for some of the others.

You select the load, and it says how long that each model of that group ought to run.

BTW, 500VA is approx 300W.


Davesnothere
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4 edits
reply to DrugTito
said by DrugTito:

What would be the best place to buy refurbished (or new - if good priced) UPS ? ....

....Should i go with »www.upsforless.ca/ ?

I was thinking about something like:
»www.upsforless.ca/apcbp700ref.aspx

 
That place seems to have a good reputation.

Choose by the size of the battery, moreso than by the W or VA of the unit's inverter.

The one you linked has too small a battery.

This is a better choice - and value too - and will run longer than your 1500XS :

»www.upsforless.ca/apcsu700netref.aspx

BTW, many threads over in CanChat forum have covered UPS issues in great detail before, and I think also some here.

MY personal FAVE - and best value overall - would be this one :

»www.upsforless.ca/apcsu1400netref.aspx

Put your PC & screen on it, and hand your 1500XS down to your netgear.

= = = = = = = =

ALSO, this store lowballs prices on units of which they have too many in stock and are not moving.

The ones which I linked seem to be priced like that, and are every bit as good as their newer sister models, the Smart UPS 750 and 1500 tower models.

nightowl

join:2012-11-09
reply to DrugTito
Costco has the 500VA APC for 55$ and has the 1300VA smart UPS for 129.99


Davesnothere
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Which models & letter suffixes ?

nightowl

join:2012-11-09
Reviews:
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reply to DrugTito


DrugTito

join:2013-01-17
canada
Thank you all for your time.

Davesnothere, i understand, but, that would be over the budget really, i would leave my PC on current UPS, and get something for my Modem\Router (and since they are not using much power, LED is very close to it, i would have my LED on it), and probably my wife's vacuum when she is bored :P

Is there anything else you would recommend like this:
»www.upsforless.ca/apcsu700netref.aspx (in this price range) but, in black color, since, everything is black here (furniture, etc), so, i don't end up having my butt kicked from my wife for bringing in white UPC (of course, this is just a question if you want to look into this, you don't have to, as i don't want to bother you guys much, you already helped a lot!)

Thanks all!


DrugTito

join:2013-01-17
canada
How about this?

How long could RT-N66U and DCM476 run on this?
»www.upsforless.ca/apcsc420ref.aspx

How could i calculate this?:)

Thanks


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
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I spent the extra bucks and got the CyberPower 1000AVR »www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/···atId=234 I think it was some crazy sale for $90 or $100. Was enough to keep a Cellpipe, an RT-N16, an sb5101, a tl-1043nd a computer with 2 hard drives (1 was ssd) and a 24" monitor running for close to 30min until power got restored and still had some juice left. Not a bad investment. With a 1000VA UPS you could probably keep going throughout a major power outage.
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cable4me

@teksavvy.com
reply to DrugTito
From the data on that site:

# Typical Backup Time at Half Load 13.5 minutes (130 Watts)
# Typical Backup Time at Full Load 5.5 minutes (260 Watts)

So a really rough estimate using those numbers by drawing a graph (gasp) or high school math
to extrapolate tells me that to expect at best 21.5 minutes at no load and for
every watt one loses 0.06 minutes.

As with extrapolation and lack of data points, YMMV.


Davesnothere
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1 edit
reply to DrugTito
said by DrugTito:

How about this?

How long could RT-N66U and DCM476 run on this?
»www.upsforless.ca/apcsc420ref.aspx ....

 
I noticed that one AFTER suggesting the others.

It might be a good choice for the accessories as you originally asked.

Go to the APC site and find it or its replacement, and do the pull-down calculator.

The minimum they will let you select is 50W, IIRC.

»www.apc.com/products/family/inde···b=models

Select 'Tower' to narrow the results some.


Davesnothere
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2 edits
reply to DrugTito
 
One other factor (HIDDEN COST) which most folks overlook when shopping for a UPS is what replacement battery it will need in 2-4 years time.

Most of their traditional metal case 'Tower' models, including all which I have suggested, use the generically available batteries with slide-on top terminals.

APC part numbers for these are RBC2 thru RBC7, and these can easily be sourced from other places, often for less $$.

Units of newer design, such as your XS series, often use oddball (unique new) battery designs which can only be ordered from APC, at a premium price, sometimes more than what the unit would cost to replace altogether.

= = = = = = = =

Oh, and tell your wife how much extra that the black versions of the ones I first suggested will cost.

She might find that white is a nicer colour than first believed.

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Davesnothere
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reply to cable4me
said by cable4me :

....So a really rough estimate using those numbers by drawing a graph (gasp) or high school math
to extrapolate tells me that to expect at best 21.5 minutes at no load and for
every watt one loses 0.06 minutes.

As with extrapolation and lack of data points, YMMV.

 
The graph will not be linear - I promise.


sbrook
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join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
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1 recommendation

A can of black spray paint will add about $7 to the cost Wouldn't be the first time I've painted a case for "decor".


Davesnothere
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reply to Davesnothere
 
This $35 dark grey unit uses one of the common batteries (RBC2 or equiv) :

»www.upsforless.ca/apcbe500.aspx

Not many blinkenlights, but gets the job done.


Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to nightowl
said by nightowl:

Costco has the 500VA APC for 55$ and has the 1300VA smart UPS for 129.99

A 550 would probably be fine. I use a APC ES750 for a router, modem and two VoIP ATAs at both home and my store and get just over two hours of run time on each. I think I paid $70 or so for each of mine.

Getting anything larger than 500-750 won't provide any additional run time for low-power components like these, as the more powerful inverters in the higher-end units end up drawing more power off the battery on their own, negating any advantage. Putting a something like a BackUPS Pro or anything like that on consumer networking equipment is a major waste.

The ES750s on the market right now use the RBC17, which is cheap and generic enough as it is. The 550s use the RBC110. Replacement batteries for either can be gotten for around $20.


Davesnothere
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reply to nightowl

Battery Considerations ONLY

Uncommon (expensive) battery - AVOID !

Common battery - CONSIDER !

To some degree, what Gone said could matter too, as well as the upfront price.


Gone
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Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Davesnothere:

Uncommon (expensive) battery - AVOID !

They use the RBC124. You can still get generics, but they're designed in such a way that no matter who makes them they're not cheap to manufacture.

You *really* only need a 550 for that hardware, though. A 1300 would be a waste.


DrugTito

join:2013-01-17
canada
reply to sbrook

Re: UPS - APC

said by sbrook:

A can of black spray paint will add about $7 to the cost Wouldn't be the first time I've painted a case for "decor".

hahaha, sounds good

Let me read all other replies now

thanks guys


Dustyn
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join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
reply to DrugTito
»Replacement batteries for APC UPS?
»www.upsforless.ca/ is a fantastic resource for refurbed units and brand new batteries.
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Davesnothere
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1 edit
reply to Gone

Re: Battery Considerations ONLY

said by Gone:

said by Davesnothere:

Uncommon (expensive) battery - AVOID !

They use the RBC124. You can still get generics, but they're designed in such a way that no matter who makes them they're not cheap to manufacture.

You *really* only need a 550 for that hardware, though. A 1300 would be a waste.

 
Yes - I did the research too.

My primary point is that even if the application REQUIRED a higher volt-amp output such as of that 1300 beast, the hidden higher cost of its next battery still makes it a poor choice on that merit alone, compared to the traditional APC 'tower' style units which I had originally suggested and linked upthread.

Plus, and more importantly, the 1300 VA rating of that unit is deceiving to most users' expectations, as the RBC124 battery in it has such a short runtime, compared to the [traditional and easy to find inexpensively] RBC7 battery pack found in units such as the Smart UPS 1400 and 1500 towers.

All 3 UPS units have about the same VA rating, but in some cases VERY different runtimes.

I know that YOU get this, but many of the other readers do not, and my earlier posts are more aimed at THEM.


DrugTito

join:2013-01-17
canada
so, in the end, what am i buying from upsforless?:)


Davesnothere
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4 edits
said by DrugTito:

so, in the end, what am i buying from upsforless?:)

 
If your budget can squeeze it, go with my original post, AND the can of spray paint.

Else, the dark Smart 420 is an excellent choice.

The BE500 and BE550 each have the same RBC2 battery as the Smart 420, but are less sophisticated - no AVR (auto voltage regulation).

I have used every unit which I have linked, AND some of the others, and my homework was done long before this thread began.

BTW, I currently have a Smart 1400 and a Smart 1500 in service, both traditional tower models with those big RBC7 battery packs.

One unit has all of my network and phone stuff on it, and one of my computers.

The other unit has 2 other computers on it.

There are also some external USB hard drives on each, plus my screen is in there somewhere.

My runtimes exceed an hour at about one quarter load.

I wish that they would give me 2 hours though, as our average outage is 90 minutes, here in Eastern Ontario, which means that I usually am cutting it close.


lleader

join:2011-01-01
Mississauga, ON
reply to DrugTito

Re: UPS - APC

One other consideration, although maybe not too significant - the older model UPS's seem to use a serial cable to communicate with your computer. My computer I built about a year ago doesn't have a serial port. My Back-UPS 800 XL uses a USB cable for communication. I suppose one could add a serial port.


Davesnothere
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Very true.

I have not been using that feature/port, but for those who do....


TwiztedZero
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Toronto, ON
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reply to FiReSTaRT
The thing that irks me a lot of the time with UPS boxes is some adverts don't indicate how many sockets run off the battery and how many are surge protected. It might seem to be a minor point unless you really need more sockets on the battery than you do for surge. Why they don't make dedicated all battery units I just don't know. To me its the difference between buying one unit or two.
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