dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
1886

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

1 recommendation

StuartMW

Premium Member

Google says Gmail users have no expectation of privacy

No surprise to regulars here.
quote:
As if Edward Snowden hasn't done enough to highlight how vulnerable electronic communications are to surveillance, Google has made it clear that people who send or receive e-mail via Gmail should not expect their messages to remain private.
»news.cnet.com/8301-1023_ ··· privacy/

Actually Gmail says in their TOS (Terms of Service) that they'll scan your email. Plus the NSA gets copies.

Cartel
Intel inside Your sensitive data outside
Premium Member
join:2006-09-13
Chilliwack, BC

Cartel

Premium Member

said by google :

"Google cares deeply about the security of our users' data. ..."

HarryH3
Premium Member
join:2005-02-21

HarryH3 to StuartMW

Premium Member

to StuartMW
I read somewhere that Google even does a voice-to-text scan of conversations that take place over Google Voice.

It's left to the reader to determine why and/or what they do with that info...

kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium Member
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY

kingdome74 to StuartMW

Premium Member

to StuartMW
Is anyone going to trust a company who will bend over to accommodate the Chinese Communists?
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

said by kingdome74:

Is anyone going to trust a company who will bend over to accommodate the Chinese Communists?

Sales above ideology and principle - it's the capitalist way!

kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium Member
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY

kingdome74

Premium Member

Ah, it's the institutions not the people manipulating them.

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI

2 recommendations

Nightfall to StuartMW

MVM

to StuartMW
News flash, no free email provider is providing email for "free". No messages are going to be private. There is no expectation of privacy.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

1 recommendation

StuartMW

Premium Member

said by Nightfall:

No messages are going to be private. There is no expectation of privacy.

No argument there. The NSA et al are monitoring all email. However if one uses one of the big free providers or your (big) ISP your email is being scanned for advertising/marketing purposes. That's the point.

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI

Nightfall

MVM

said by StuartMW:

said by Nightfall:

No messages are going to be private. There is no expectation of privacy.

No argument there. The NSA et al are monitoring all email. However if one uses one of the big free providers or your (big) ISP your email is being scanned for advertising/marketing purposes. That's the point.

Just saying that this kind of thing has been known for years now. We were talking about the "expectation of privacy" since back in the excite mail days. So it shouldn't be any surprise when Google says something like that. Sure, the company line is that they care about the security of your email, but only from anyone but them.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

StuartMW

Premium Member

said by Nightfall:

Sure, the company line is that they care about the security of your email, but only from anyone but them.

Or the NSA. Oh wait.. they deny that.

ashrc4
Premium Member
join:2009-02-06
australia

ashrc4 to StuartMW

Premium Member

to StuartMW
said by StuartMW:

said by Nightfall:

No messages are going to be private. There is no expectation of privacy.

No argument there. The NSA et al are monitoring all email. However if one uses one of the big free providers or your (big) ISP your email is being scanned for advertising/marketing purposes. That's the point.

Expanding on that NSA generally runs search paterns on E-mail to find key words. If you become a person of interest or have an assosiation with one your E-mails may be read.
Google builds profiles of you beyond the NSA's general bleak collection and desires to influence and know you better than yourself. It'not just what you put in Gmail thats the problem either youtube, google searches etc are all stored and added to increase your profilling.
Can the NSA get a hold of this....hmmm.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

1 recommendation

StuartMW

Premium Member

said by ashrc4:

Can the NSA get a hold of this....hmmm.

You betcha

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI

Nightfall to StuartMW

MVM

to StuartMW
said by StuartMW:

said by Nightfall:

Sure, the company line is that they care about the security of your email, but only from anyone but them.

Or the NSA. Oh wait.. they deny that.

You can thank the last two administrations that we have had that have set the stage for the current privacy issues that we have now. At the same time though, these privacy concerns are really overblown. I am a firm believer that the gathering of all this information is resulting in the reporting of worthless information. I personally could care less if the NSA knows I love to eat Lucky Charms for breakfast, play hockey, referee hockey, and teach college.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

1 edit

StuartMW

Premium Member

All the more to fill that Utah datacenter with

But make sure you're on the right side

ashrc4
Premium Member
join:2009-02-06
australia

ashrc4 to StuartMW

Premium Member

to StuartMW
said by StuartMW:

said by ashrc4:

Can the NSA get a hold of this....hmmm.

You betcha

OK maybe your right to some degree.
»www.theverge.com/2013/6/ ··· rt-order

dib22
join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO

1 recommendation

dib22 to StuartMW

Member

to StuartMW
So I have read google's explanation and I think google is correct.
quote:
a person has no legitimate expectation of privacy in information he voluntarily turns over to third parties

I think that if people really would like email to be secure they should re-write the email standards. The current email system is as insecure as possible as it transits email in cleartext by design. Imagine if every piece of snail mail you sent and received was sent through the postal system page by page, with no envelope... that is our current email standard on the internet.

some more on this
»www.theverge.com/2013/8/ ··· -privacy

Ian1
Premium Member
join:2002-06-18
ON

Ian1 to StuartMW

Premium Member

to StuartMW
I think what this is, is a PR mishap for Google. The lawyers writing the response probably didn't pass the text by the Google PR dept. There were ways to say what they wanted to say without saying that users had "no expectation of privacy".

Put simply, I have SOME expectation of privacy when use gmail, but not total. I know it's not secure, I know it's in plain-text (unless I encrypt through gmail, which I can, and do), and I know they scan plain-text to put in ads I never see due to ABP or using an IMAP client.

But I have the expectation that humans aren't pouring over the text. I have expectations that they won't turn over plain-text or meta-data to anyone who asks. Or to follow the analogy Google used, if I send a letter to a colleague that is opened by his secretary, I have the expectation that the secretary will not blab the contents or post them on the company lunch-room bulletin board.
Mele20
Premium Member
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Mele20

Premium Member

Poor analogy. The secretary is stopped because she/he doesn't want to get fired. What incentive would stop Google postinge contents on lunch room board or whatever? Nothing. We all already know Google is evil so they wouldn't lose a reputation they don't have if word got out they were blabbling your email contents or profiting in some manner.

Phoenix22
Death From Above
Premium Member
join:2001-12-11
SOG C&C Nrth

Phoenix22 to StuartMW

Premium Member

to StuartMW
thanks friend.............we'll take it from here.......
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave to Mele20

Premium Member

to Mele20
The analogy is fine.

The secretary only fears being fired if she works for an employer that has rules against revealing customer secrets.

Google only fears punishment if it operates in a country that has rules against revealing customer secrets.

(Or: if you want 'not evil', you can't just trust to luck, you need regulations that are enforced).

GlennLouEarl
3 brothers, 1 gone
Premium Member
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA

2 recommendations

GlennLouEarl to StuartMW

Premium Member

to StuartMW
And then there's Techdirt: »www.techdirt.com/article ··· cy.shtml
(I'd rather rely on Techdirt than "Consumer Watchdog".)

jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
MVM
join:2000-04-13
USA

jaykaykay to StuartMW

MVM

to StuartMW
said by StuartMW:

All the more to fill that Utah datacenter with

But make sure you're on the right side

Being on the right side isn't the big problem. Getting there is!

siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium Member
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC

siljaline to StuartMW

Premium Member

to StuartMW
The Space Bunny of the NSA set keeps on running.
»venturebeat.com/2013/08/ ··· ts-that/
SCADAGeo
Premium Member
join:2012-11-08
N California

SCADAGeo to GlennLouEarl

Premium Member

to GlennLouEarl
said by GlennLouEarl:

And then there's Techdirt: »www.techdirt.com/article ··· cy.shtml
(I'd rather rely on Techdirt than "Consumer Watchdog".)

+1
scelli (banned)
Four More Years!
join:1999-08-07
FLOT/FEBA

scelli (banned) to Mele20

Member

to Mele20
said by Mele20:

We all already know Google is evil...

Nonsense. I'm not particularly a fan of Google and its various subsidiaries, yet it seems we once again have another blatant example of exaggerated and foolish rhetoric from you. Perhaps everyone should take the time to read the following short essay at the link below, which I believe puts things in better perspective. Here's the introduction:

Stop spreading manure

Perhaps most importantly, stop believing it.

Once again, there’s been another brouhaha. This time, it’s over reports that Google blatantly admits that you should have no expectation of privacy whatsoever when using their services. The internet went crazy. Many sources seemed to say, “How outrageous! We told you so! Google is evil!” Mainstream news outlets picked up stories from smaller publishers and they all seemed to confirm the entire, sordid mess.

Except the internet was wrong. Manure, to use a polite term, was being spread far and wide fast.

And that’s where things get complicated.


The article in its entirety can be found at this link:

»askleo.com/stop-spreadin ··· AGsZdfbL

ashrc4
Premium Member
join:2009-02-06
australia

ashrc4

Premium Member

said by scelli:

said by Mele20:

We all already know Google is evil...

Nonsense. I'm not particularly a fan of Google and its various subsidiaries
Stop spreading manure
Perhaps most importantly, stop believing it.

Perhaps we should engineer from the who is the worst offender of profiling it's users on the size of cross corelation amongst it's subsidiaries.
Google wins hands down.
On that premise should we use G-mail as apposed to any other E-mail?
»nakedsecurity.sophos.com ··· privacy/

Google aint championing any duty of care nor clarifying it's methods or function to consumers rather coldly retorting on a mis-quote only slightly out of context.
Trust them all you like but they go way outside of the scope that this present issue covers and for that the whole seems to be avioded.....Not by me.
scelli (banned)
Four More Years!
join:1999-08-07
FLOT/FEBA

scelli (banned)

Member

The major thrust of the article covered a broad spectrum of possible situations where FUD is spread around on a regular basis daily by numerous entities on the Internet (including a few individuals on these forums) just like that horse manure mentioned. Google was used as just one of those examples. If you've got a problem with Google and wish to make them your own personal cause celebre, then don't use their services. I couldn't care less.

ashrc4
Premium Member
join:2009-02-06
australia

ashrc4

Premium Member

recovers from blindsiding
said by scelli:

The major thrust of the article covered a broad spectrum of possible situations where FUD is spread around on a regular basis daily by numerous entities on the Internet (including a few individuals on these forums) just like that horse manure mentioned. Google was used as just one of those examples. If you've got a problem with Google and wish to make them your own personal cause celebre, then don't use their services. I couldn't care less.

Only to be flanked

How are your comments relavent to either security or privacy for yourself or others in this instance. If you want to improve a forum it's not issues of personal preference that count more the content of facts and maybe some persuasion.
scelli (banned)
Four More Years!
join:1999-08-07
FLOT/FEBA

scelli (banned) to HarryH3

Member

to HarryH3
said by HarryH3:

I read somewhere that Google even does a voice-to-text scan of conversations that take place over Google Voice.

It's left to the reader to determine why and/or what they do with that info...

No, actually it's up to you as a responsible poster to provide this group with some kind of credible proof backing up such a statement....and that doesn't include the likes of "I read somewhere..." either. I'm not saying it could or couldn't be happening: I'm saying "Show us the money!"

Until such time as you do that, your "info" is nothing more than FUD to me and I'm sure a number of others as well.
scelli

scelli (banned) to ashrc4

Member

to ashrc4
said by ashrc4:

How are your comments relavent to either security or privacy for yourself or others in this instance. If you want to improve a forum it's not issues of personal preference that count more the content of facts and maybe some persuasion.

Don't have the slightest idea what you're babbling on about, so suggest we just agree to disagree.