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Forced to Switch to Uverse - Nothing but problems from day 1We were forced to switch to UVerse over 6 months ago. We were told they were upgrading the lines in the area and that it would be a more secure, faster internet. We previously had AT&T DSL, and even though the speeds are not the best, we never had a single problem with it.
It is quite the opposite though since UVerse has been installed. We have had problems since the very first day. We have had several Tech visits, they have supposedly replaced switches at their station in our town, have changed out our modem 4 times, even installed an isobar, but the problem still persists. I have even wrote a letter to the VP's office and had a response within a couple of days, and we thought we had finally got the problem resolved, yet here I am writing on here as a last resort.
The current problem which has been the problem for months now is that the modem randomly and repeatedly reboots. I mean just since I have started writing this post it has already reset it self 4 times. This is a major problem, as my self and family are constantly online, but this severely interferes with that process.
We have 3 computers hooked up wired, and 1 xbox all 4 via ethernet. With the wireless side usually there can be either mine or my wife's phone, and her ipad, so 3 devices. We never had any problems before, exact same setup, but now, it's all the time. Really disrupts things when you are doing business via video chat, or my son playing games online and it disconnects it. Even worse, after the reboot, I have to constantly clear the history and the cache of the browser or pages won't load, I get the AT&T error message.
The modem is a Motorola NVG510. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, and I can tell you that if there were any other viable internet choices out here where we live, we would have long switched.
Let me know if any other information is needed. |
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StillLearn Premium Member join:2002-03-21 Streamwood, IL 1 edit |
What causes you to think it is rebooting vs losing sync? If it is rebooting, you might try powering it through a UPS, at least for a testing period. You may be able to borrow one for a friend to test with for a few days. My idea is that maybe the NVG510 is more sensitive to brief power anomalies than other stuff. I don't know, but it seems possible enough to be worth considering.
You might look for statistics on your NVG510 and post those. That would be the section that shows SN (signal to noise) and dB or dBm to represent powers.
I am not expert on this, and my U-verse is the other kind. (yours uses ADSL+ or ADSL2 but mine uses VDSL). Yours is the kind discussed in "IP-DSLAM FAQ" at the top of the forum, but I doubt there is information there that will help you. |
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said by StillLearn:What causes you to think it is rebooting vs losing sync? If it is rebooting, you might try powering it through a UPS, at least for a testing period. You may be able to borrow one for a friend to test with for a few days. My idea is that maybe the NVG510 is more sensitive to brief power anomalies than other stuff. I don't know, but it seems possible enough to be worth considering.
You might look for statistics on your NVG510 and post those. That would be the section that shows SN (signal to noise) and dB or dBm to represent powers.
I am not expert on this, and my U-verse is the other kind. (yours uses ADSL+ but mine uses VDSL). Yours is the kind discussed in "IP-DSLAM FAQ" at the top of the forum, but I doubt there is information there that will help you. I am not sure of the difference between rebooting and losing sync. I just know that I lose connectivity and when I look over at the modem it is cycling through the different phases, until it gets to the last one for connection, sometimes it will flash green and then go solid, sometimes it goes red and I have to unplug it and reboot it that way. What ever it's doing it does it frequently and it's really annoying. First they sold us the fastest package, only to have one of the tech guys tell my wife that there was no reason to have that package because we were unable to reach those speeds due to location. So we switched to a better package, thinking that it would resolve the issue, since he said that it could have been overworking the line. That didn't fix it. One of the techs keeps telling me he wants to redo the line and move the modem all together, which would be a pain considering the location of the phone jack relative to the phone we use and location of the computers etc... I am not sure how to look at the statistics for the modem, so if anyone can point me out on how to do that, I'll gladly post the results. Thanks! |
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rolandeCertifiable MVM, join:2002-05-24 Dallas, TX ARRIS BGW210-700 Cisco Meraki MR42
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Go download UVRealtime and it will grab the stats off of your modem. You can grab screenshots of the IP/Profile and the Error table, as well as the Bitloading graph. Make sure you enable the option to hide your personal information, before you grab the screenshots. Then you can post those screenshots here. Someone can at least help point you in the right direction. You have some sort of line issue that causes the DSL signal to continuously lose synch. The modem itself is not rebooting. You most likely got converted from an RT based legacy ADSL service to CO based IPDSL. As a result you are probably running over a much longer connection back to the CO. Unfortunately, that scenario is always ripe for problems compared to your prior setup. |
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COjosh
Member
2013-Aug-17 3:35 pm
Rolande- Did they "upgrade" UVRealtime to support IP-DSLAM and the NVG510?
To the OP- open a browser window and type in 192.168.1.254, enter your username and password, then go to the Broadband tab, you will see your DSL line stats there. Copy the verbiage there, paste it into paint or something and black out your IP address, then upload it to this forum. That way we can see the condition of your loop and try to offer advice.
I would agree with Rolande though that you may have been served from an RT with a much shorter loop, and now you are on CO based DSL which has extended the loop making it much more unstable....is that a run-on? LOL!
I have considered the option of upgrading to 6M service but with a loop of 11.9k ft, attenuation of 59dB, and a SNR of 16-ish, 6M service would be a crapshoot...I have been fine on 3M |
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rolandeCertifiable MVM, join:2002-05-24 Dallas, TX |
Yeah I was mistaken. I was thinking the 510 was supported. I can swear I saw someone post UVRealtime screenshots recently who was on IPDSL. Maybe they had a 2Wire RG? |
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Motorola MG8725 Asus RT-N66
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said by rolande:Yeah I was mistaken. I was thinking the 510 was supported. I can swear I saw someone post UVRealtime screenshots recently who was on IPDSL. Maybe they had a 2Wire RG? Probably was the 2701 HG-B or 4111N. |
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to COjosh
said by COjosh:Rolande- Did they "upgrade" UVRealtime to support IP-DSLAM and the NVG510?
To the OP- open a browser window and type in 192.168.1.254, enter your username and password, then go to the Broadband tab, you will see your DSL line stats there. Copy the verbiage there, paste it into paint or something and black out your IP address, then upload it to this forum. That way we can see the condition of your loop and try to offer advice.
I would agree with Rolande though that you may have been served from an RT with a much shorter loop, and now you are on CO based DSL which has extended the loop making it much more unstable....is that a run-on? LOL!
I have considered the option of upgrading to 6M service but with a loop of 11.9k ft, attenuation of 59dB, and a SNR of 16-ish, 6M service would be a crapshoot...I have been fine on 3M Not sure what a lot of what you two said means LOL But here's the info from my broadband tab. Not sure if you'll notice anything as I haven't had any problems in the last couple of hours or so, but here it is any way: Broadband Status Line State Up Broadband Connection Up Downstream Sync Rate (kbps) 11997 Upstream Sync Rate (kbps) 1021 Modulation ADSL2+ Data Path Interleaved MTU 1500 IPv6 Status Available Global Unicast IPv6 Address 2602:306:bcad:cae0::1/60 Border Relay IPv4 Address 12.83.49.81 IPv4 Statistics Transmit Packets 875330 Transmit Errors 0 Transmit Discards 22 IPv6 Statistics Transmit Packets 13644 Transmit Errors 0 Transmit Discards 0 Downstream and Upstream Statistics Downstream Upstream SN Margin (dB) 8.8 9.0 Line Attenuation (dB) 21.5 13.1 Output Power(dBm) 18.3 12.1 Errored Seconds 4 5 Loss of Signal 0 0 Loss of Frame 0 0 FEC Errors 2779 10 CRC Errors 31 20 So if it is something from their conversion to this new DSL how can I get it stable? Thanks for all the quick responses, nice forum! Edit - Just went down again... |
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StillLearn Premium Member join:2002-03-21 Streamwood, IL |
Line Attenuation is not that high, so we know you are not anything like 10000 feet from whatever is serving you. SN Margin is low, and that is not so good. I suspect there is a problem that can be fixed rather than you just being too far to get good service.
I suggest you try the NID test on your own. |
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What is an NID test? |
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aefstoggaflmOpen Source Fan Premium Member join:2002-03-04 Bethlehem, PA Linksys E4200 ARRIS SB6141
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ILpt4U Premium Member join:2006-11-12 Saint Louis, MO ARRIS TM822 Asus RT-N66
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to rolande
said by rolande:Yeah I was mistaken. I was thinking the 510 was supported. I can swear I saw someone post UVRealtime screenshots recently who was on IPDSL. Maybe they had a 2Wire RG? Realtime works if you have a 2Wire/Pace IPDSLAM modem - which would be either the 2701 hgv or 5031 nv It is a no go on the Moto equipment (2210, 2310, nvg510, nvg589) FYI the 2Wire/Pace 5031 nv is bi-modal - works on HSI/VOIP (either/both) U-Verse whether single pair ADSL2+ IPDSLAM or VDSL2 FTTN |
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to memnoch03
Follow the FAQ regarding how to do a NID test and then re-post your broadband stats after that.
I would agree that your SNR is a little low, but your Attenuation seems fine...
I don't think that it's a coincidence that one of the tech's that came to your house mentioned something about "cleaning up your line at the house" and maybe moving the modem. That would suggest to me that his sync/DSL #'s outside are better than they are inside your house.
If you DO want to keep your current speed, and make your line more stable, you may indeed have to consider the possibility of relocating your modem. |
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said by COjosh:Follow the FAQ regarding how to do a NID test and then re-post your broadband stats after that.
I would agree that your SNR is a little low, but your Attenuation seems fine...
I don't think that it's a coincidence that one of the tech's that came to your house mentioned something about "cleaning up your line at the house" and maybe moving the modem. That would suggest to me that his sync/DSL #'s outside are better than they are inside your house.
If you DO want to keep your current speed, and make your line more stable, you may indeed have to consider the possibility of relocating your modem. Sorry I haven't been back on to do any test results, work has been very busy. AT&T did finally come back to the house today though, and the Tech did a whole new wiring job. He said the old line running from the pole to the box on the house went out the back yard down the street and hooked a left to get to a pole, and that some where there was a T line that he thought could be causing the problem. There is a pole right across the street from the house, considerably closer, so he ran a line from there to the box, and someone else will be out within the next couple of days to bury the line. He also ran a new line from the box straight up through the attic and dropped down right into the computer room, and installed a new jack there, so I didn't have to move anything. He was very helpful, and went above and beyond to try and resolve the issue. I haven't had much time to see if it is really any better yet, but as far as I know, it hasn't re-synced yet. Hopefully that will be the end of it, because if that doesn't fix the problems, then what else could it possibly be?? Here's a pull from my ip page, no idea what the numbers mean, do they look any better?? Line State Up Broadband Connection Up Downstream Sync Rate (kbps) 11997 Upstream Sync Rate (kbps) 1020 Modulation ADSL2+ Data Path Interleaved MTU 1500 IPv6 Status Available Global Unicast IPv6 Address xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Border Relay IPv4 Address xx.xxx.xxx IPv4 Statistics Transmit Packets 4579651 Transmit Errors 0 Transmit Discards 218 IPv6 Statistics Transmit Packets 1406331 Transmit Errors 0 Transmit Discards 0 Downstream and Upstream Statistics Downstream Upstream SN Margin (dB) 8.3 8.5 Line Attenuation (dB) 17.0 11.1 Output Power(dBm) 18.3 12.1 Errored Seconds 62 3 Loss of Signal 0 0 Loss of Frame 0 0 FEC Errors 10797 19 CRC Errors 231 4 |
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COjosh
Member
2013-Aug-22 8:03 am
Your downstream attenuation went down about 4.5dB and your upstream also improved as well. The odd thing is that your SNR on both sides actually got slightly worse...
The later would tell me that you really are at the max distance for your line profile, 12Meg, and nothing can be done to improve how "hot" the sync rate is coming in to your modem.
What the tech did was eliminate the "out-end" of your copper loop, which was the "T" he was speaking of, essentially unnecessary extra copper still attached to your cable pair. This is what improved your attenuation- the less copper you have, the better your attenuation.
You could have also had an issue with the drop coming to your house as well.
It sounds as if this dude did everything possible to stabilize your connection outside of throwing you to a different cable pair outside.
Hopefully this resolves the retrains- Post back if you can in a few days and let us know ho it's been.
-Josh |
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said by COjosh:Your downstream attenuation went down about 4.5dB and your upstream also improved as well. The odd thing is that your SNR on both sides actually got slightly worse...
The later would tell me that you really are at the max distance for your line profile, 12Meg, and nothing can be done to improve how "hot" the sync rate is coming in to your modem.
What the tech did was eliminate the "out-end" of your copper loop, which was the "T" he was speaking of, essentially unnecessary extra copper still attached to your cable pair. This is what improved your attenuation- the less copper you have, the better your attenuation.
You could have also had an issue with the drop coming to your house as well.
It sounds as if this dude did everything possible to stabilize your connection outside of throwing you to a different cable pair outside.
Hopefully this resolves the retrains- Post back if you can in a few days and let us know ho it's been.
-Josh He said he ran tests after everything was done and the line was strong and fine for the 12 speed...for the last couple of hours I have had no problems, and then it happens...modem loses sync again. Not sure what else it could possibly be, except maybe a bad modem? That has been replaced a few times already, maybe it is just that modem can't handle it?? That's really all that's left after the whole re-wiring right?? Here's from the broadband page again, although I don't really notice much difference in anything on it...hopefully it was just a 1 time freak occurrence? Line State Up Broadband Connection Up Downstream Sync Rate (kbps) 11995 Upstream Sync Rate (kbps) 1021 Modulation ADSL2+ Data Path Interleaved MTU 1500 IPv6 Status Available IPv4 Statistics Transmit Packets 6932609 Transmit Errors 0 Transmit Discards 242 IPv6 Statistics Transmit Packets 2886356 Transmit Errors 0 Transmit Discards 0 Downstream and Upstream Statistics Downstream Upstream SN Margin (dB) 7.4 10.8 Line Attenuation (dB) 17.5 11.2 Output Power(dBm) 18.4 12.1 Errored Seconds 1 0 Loss of Signal 0 0 Loss of Frame 0 0 FEC Errors 7 0 CRC Errors 1 0 |
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to memnoch03
If everything was rewired, the modem replaced, homerun to the gateway is good, the only other thing they could do would be to swap your port in case that is it. Otherwise you'll have to accept a lower rate to stabilize your connection. Sometimes there just is no solution, the rate of service offered just isn't appropriate for that line. |
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said by Paralel:If everything was rewired, the modem replaced, homerun to the gateway is good, the only other thing they could do would be to swap your port in case that is it. Otherwise you'll have to accept a lower rate to stabilize your connection. Sometimes there just is no solution, the rate of service offered just isn't appropriate for that line. The modem itself hasn't been replaced since this all started happening...they replaced it twice, and that was over 6 months ago. You think it has to do with the speed? One of the reasons I did not want to go down further was the drop off from up speed, it's already low enough on DSL ;( And to note, it hasn't disconnected again since that last one...but I am playing an online game w/ my son, and I keep getting "lost connection to the server" in the game...haven't been able to finish 1 match since that last disconnect. Not sure if related or not, but no one else online seems to be having any issues. Just thought I'd add that to see if it maybe helps any? |
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Gather more data: 1. on your gateway settings/Firewall/Adv disable blockPing. 2. This forum's Tools section: Run Line Quality test 3. This forum's Tools section: Run SmokePing test for 1 day. 4. on your gateway settings/Diag/DSL, find training history table. Wait till accumulates 4-5 retrains (avoid rebooting: clears this table losing history IIRC). Collect Timestamps and ExitCodes for each retrain (hope this is available for ADSL2+ RGs). Describe your issue with all stats here AND in ATT Direct Forum: » AT&T Direct |
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I am in the settings now and I don't see blockping anywhere...under advanced or any other menu subset...any ideas or is it maybe called something else?
Also I notice a ton of problems when connected via wifi...it's slow, or half the time I get the ATT dsl connection error page, and then after a refresh it works again. Really frustrating, I was sure all the re-wiring would fix the problem...
Ya problem definitely still exists. Modem has cycled several times already... |
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Maybe NVG510 doesn't have such control. Line Quality test will tell you if you are pingable or not before being scheduled.
If you know your gateway's public IP address, you can schedule those tests by browsing this forum's site by any reliable/external means, but don't wait for those tests. Do you have training history table at least? Post in direct, with link to this thread, and continue adding to this thread.
Over 6 months back, gateway was replaced trying to address other symptoms (not chronic retrains)? What were they? On phone with ATT I'd ask nicely for a different/newer model gateway (hope another reader can nominate one for you). [Edit: Pace 5031NV at least, or even Pace 5168NV] |
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Hayward0 K A R - 1 2 0 C Premium Member join:2000-07-13 Key West, FL |
to memnoch03
Out of curiosity where are you that you were FORCED to switch,
So far here no new DSL, but existing are allowed to be but no changes but to go to UV and then no going back.
Mind you I get sales stuff all the time and at the begining even sever knocks on the door, but they have yet to say you MUST or nothing. |
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said by brookeKrige:Maybe NVG510 doesn't have such control. Line Quality test will tell you if you are pingable or not before being scheduled.
If you know your gateway's public IP address, you can schedule those tests by browsing this forum's site by any reliable/external means, but don't wait for those tests. Do you have training history table at least? Post in direct, with link to this thread, and continue adding to this thread.
Over 6 months back, gateway was replaced trying to address other symptoms (not chronic retrains)? What were they? On phone with ATT I'd ask nicely for a different/newer model gateway (hope another reader can nominate one for you). [Edit: Pace 5031NV at least, or even Pace 5168NV] I will call the tech today, he asked me to call him if I were still having problems...I have to work now, but when I get home I'll try to find out about the training history, I am not sure what that is either, sorry! said by Hayward0:Out of curiosity where are you that you were FORCED to switch,
So far here no new DSL, but existing are allowed to be but no changes but to go to UV and then no going back.
Mind you I get sales stuff all the time and at the begining even sever knocks on the door, but they have yet to say you MUST or nothing. I live in a small town in Texas between SanAntonio and Austin. I probably still have the email, they made everyone here that had SBC Global switch...my in laws have had a lot of problems too, but not on the scale I am having them. I think one of the techs early on in this even did something at the station, put us on a different switch or port, I am not sure. |
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to memnoch03
I would still be concerned with the downstream SNR- which is low, at 7.4dB, while your Attenuation still seems to be on par for 12Meg. I'm still of the opinion that it is indeed some form of outside trouble affecting your performance.
You really might be just too plain far to sustain a 12Meg connection.
With your SNR so low, any fluctuation in the OSP- be it a minor resistive fault, power influence, carrier interference, etc.- will cause your SNR to dip too low for the modem to maintain sync, hence the retrains.
If you dropped your line speed down some, to get your SNR up above 10dB consistently, those minor changes wont be "noticed" so much by the modem and it will maintain it's communication with the DSLAM.
I'd be curious to know if there was any conversation or remarks made by the technician about your loop length being borderline for the level of service that you ordered.
Do you know if any of your neighbors have Uverse IP-DSLAM at the same speed you are at right now? If they have the same level of service, are they having issues too since the forced conversion? |
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said by COjosh:I would still be concerned with the downstream SNR- which is low, at 7.4dB, while your Attenuation still seems to be on par for 12Meg. I'm still of the opinion that it is indeed some form of outside trouble affecting your performance.
You really might be just too plain far to sustain a 12Meg connection.
With your SNR so low, any fluctuation in the OSP- be it a minor resistive fault, power influence, carrier interference, etc.- will cause your SNR to dip too low for the modem to maintain sync, hence the retrains.
If you dropped your line speed down some, to get your SNR up above 10dB consistently, those minor changes wont be "noticed" so much by the modem and it will maintain it's communication with the DSLAM.
I'd be curious to know if there was any conversation or remarks made by the technician about your loop length being borderline for the level of service that you ordered.
Do you know if any of your neighbors have Uverse IP-DSLAM at the same speed you are at right now? If they have the same level of service, are they having issues too since the forced conversion? I am not sure if anyone else around me even has it or not. I was on the 18MB package, and they said I was on the edge of that and if I wanted a more stable line to drop to the 12. I just spoke with the tech that did all of the re-wiring and he reassured me that my distance was fine, and that I was actually pulling 19 on the line when he tested it, so I could even go back to the 18 if I wanted to, but the line would be more stable on the 12. He's going to switch the port I am on on Monday, and also switch out my modem for a new modem they just got in 2 weeks ago. From there we just don't know. |
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rolandeCertifiable MVM, join:2002-05-24 Dallas, TX ARRIS BGW210-700 Cisco Meraki MR42
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said by memnoch03:He's going to switch the port I am on on Monday, and also switch out my modem for a new modem they just got in 2 weeks ago. You're getting an NVG589. Lucky bastard. That should definitely help your cause. |
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to memnoch03
..well 7 dB is still crappy and, NO MATTER THE EQUIPMENT, you will STILL have some problems...just saying
**EDIT** Your SNR could actually be higher but the modem is reporting an incorrect value...just thought of that...
Some here believe that the NVG589's are less sensitive and more stable, but they don't have a long enough history in the field yet for those opinions to be conclusive.
I, as well as most others, would be curious to see how stable your connection is after the modem swap.
The problem with changing the port AND the modem at the same time is; if that fixes the problem, what actually FIXED the problem? Was it the port swap or the modem replacement?
I have seen plenty of issues with ports being "weak"- where their respective downstream SNR values right at the DSLAM are lower than the rest on the card. 2 dB, with sketchy plant/hardware conditions, can literally make or break somebodies service.
You may have the bandwidth necessary to support 18Meg service, but the plant may be just too noisy to provide enough "volume" for your modem to "hear" the far-end at the DSLAM.
Let us know how it turns out...I truly hope I am wrong! |
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to rolande
Believe OP is ADSL2+, so swap won't be for a NVG589? |
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The NVG589 can indeed do ADSL2+ as well, it's just that AT&T isn't intending to use them for that service. I would guess this is considered an exceptional circumstance. An NVG589 might just do it since it seems to raise the S/N ratio by about 3 dB on average (Mine jumped from 12.0 to 15.0 after my 3801 was swapped for the NVG589) |
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So the tech came back out to the house today...again I couldn't be here, so just talked over the phone. I do not believe they changed the port as of yet, and the modem is a 5031NV.
I don't know what that is or means, can anyone else tell me? It's not the NVG589 you guys were talking about.
Haven't had a chance to see if there's any improvement yet, but I can tell you at first glance, opening the browser and navigating to a page is definitely slower.
Here's what I found on the Broadband page of the modem:
DSL Details
Modem Type Built in modem - ADSL/VDSL
DSL Line Line 1 (inner pair) Down Up User Rate 11997 kbs 1020 kbs Max User Rate 21076 kbs 1172 kbs Noise Margin 9.1 dB 8.8 dB Attenuation 18.5 dB 11.6 dB Output Power 18.4 dBm 12.1 dBm
Protocol G.DMT2+ Annex A Channel Interleaved DSLAM Vendor Information Country {46336} Vendor {BDCM} Specific {41436 } Rate Cap 18712 kbs Attenuation @ 300kHz 14.3 dB Uncanceled Echo -19.4 dB Ok VCXO Frequency Offset 0.0 ppm Ok Excessive Impulse Noise 0 Ok Traffic Statistics
IP Traffic Bytes Packets Errors % Transmit 2625246 28619 0 0 Receive 23063807 43396 0 0
DSL Link Errors
Collected for 3:35:07
Since Current Current Time Since Reset 24-hr int. 15-min int. Last Event DSL Link Retrains 0 0 0 0:00:00 DSL Training Errors 2 2 0 3:34:07 Training Timeouts 2 2 0 3:34:07 Loss of Framing Failures 0 0 0 0:00:00 Loss of Signal Failures 0 0 0 0:00:00 Loss of Power Failures 0 0 0 0:00:00 Loss of Margin Failures 0 0 0 0:00:00 Cum. Seconds w/Errors 2 2 0 2:04:04 Cum. Sec. w/Severe Errors 0 0 0 0:00:00 Corrected Blocks 51742 51742 191 0:02:01 Uncorrectable Blocks 3 3 0 2:04:04 DSL Unavailable Seconds 89 89 0 3:33:38
Just comparing some of the previous posts from the other broadband page, it looks like some of the numbers are different, but I don't know if different in the direction of better or worse.
Is this modem any good, or should I be pushing for the NVG589? |
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