dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
45651
Frodo
join:2006-05-05

Frodo to 8744675

Member

to 8744675

Re: Charges for 911 calls?

said by 8744675:

The 911 fee has been charged on land lines and cell phones for years.

Cell phones? Not in Missouri.
»www.save911.org/
So, I wonder what the Missouri situation is for Magicjack?

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to cmthru

Premium Member

to cmthru
don't pay. you can call 911 from even a deactivated cell phone.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by dvd536:

don't pay. you can call 911 from even a deactivated cell phone.

Locating cell phones isn't very accurate. Lets say they can track you down as close as 30m or so. That means you could be at your house, one of your neighbor's houses, the house across the street, the house on the other street behind you, etc.

With apartment buildings, if you can even get coverage on higher floors, they might be able to figure out what building you're in, but certainly not which unit.

In a case where you're making a 911 call and can't speak, a cell phone isn't a great option.

Gork
Ou812ic
join:2001-10-06
Bountiful, UT

Gork

Member

said by HeadSpinning:

Locating cell phones isn't very accurate.

At last if people are given the opportunity to decide for themselves the vast majority of people who never need to use the 911 system don't need to fund it for the few people who truly need it and for the majority of callers who abuse it. But even so, calling from a deactivated cell phone CAN give phase 2 results with very good lat/lon (not a 3D picture as you point out) accuracy. That is MUCH more accurate than a MJ call to 911 when the caller takes his device to another state and forgets to change his location, or the system doesn't update it soon enough and a call to 911 sends help to an address a state away.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

Its funny, but some people don't want reliable, accurate 911 service until about 5 seconds after they realize they need it.

Gork
Ou812ic
join:2001-10-06
Bountiful, UT

Gork

Member

Well, now I'm cross posting. Keep it available for everyone but charge a fee to people who actually USE it. $10. BAM! Maybe they'd stop to think about if their call is truly an emergency and not abuse the system as much.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by Gork:

Well, now I'm cross posting. Keep it available for everyone but charge a fee to people who actually USE it. $10. BAM! Maybe they'd stop to think about if their call is truly an emergency and not abuse the system as much.

Is 911 abuse that much of an issue down there? I'm sure our PSAPs get their share of dumb calls, but I didn't think it was a huge problem. From time to time, I check our logs for 911 calls, and don't see our subscribers making that many.

Gork
Ou812ic
join:2001-10-06
Bountiful, UT

Gork

Member

While "that much of a problem" would be different for different folks, off the top of my head I'd guess that maybe 70-80% of the calls I take on 911 should probably have come in on a non emergency line. Maybe 10-15% are outrageous examples of abuse like someone, for instance, wanting to file a report because the power was out long enough that the meat in their freezer is thawing out. (Yeah, it happened - and that's just one example of ridiculous examples.)

As an aside, I recently learned that in Minnesota (at least in the county Duluth is in) if you need to speak with the PD you call 911. Always. Whether someone stole your mail last week or whether your baby is choking. Seems odd to me seeing as 911 vs business lines are a way for dispatchers to try to get to the most important calls as quickly as possible. Of course it's not always accurate because emergencies come in on business lines sometimes and, as I've noted, non emergencies on 911 lines - but it's a tool. Calling 911 for everything negates that tool.
meowmeow
join:2003-07-26
Helena, MT

meowmeow

Member

I've been told BY DISPATCH to just call 911 if I need police even if it's a non-emergency. It goes to the same call center, the only difference is priority and even then they try to be fairly equal because one local cell company (MTPCS Cellular One) doesn't identify which calls are 911 to them, so all their calls look like they're calling the non-emergency number (this was a couple years ago and may have changed)
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

Interesting. Inside our network, 911 calls take special routes to specific switches that act as selective routers (dynamically routing the 911 call to the correct PSAP based on a database lookup, as exchanges cross municipal and emergency service area boundaries). We size our trunk groups based on expected emergency load, and not for non-emergency calls. I wonder if the PSAPs understand that aspect when they advise customers to call 911 for all police calls?

How do VoIP providers like MJ handle their 911 calls in the US? Do they send the calls for address verification (that's what the regulations call for here), or do they just translate it to a 10 digit local NPA-NXX-XXXX number and send it out?

greenman
join:2002-06-18
Athens, GA

greenman to Frodo

Member

to Frodo
said by Frodo:

... Magicjack has avoided the issue so far by having separate companies handle the inbound and outbound calling. Perhaps we could do that on our own?

Actually this can be done by calling the local non-emergency number and giving them that information. Then put the local non-emergency number on speed dial and tell them when it's an emergency. They still have to record all non-emergency calls and can dispatch emergency services from the non-emergency number.

But I have to agree, if you can pay for the service, you probably should. Our emergency service workers probably could use it.
Frodo
join:2006-05-05

Frodo

Member

said by greenman:

Actually this can be done by calling the local non-emergency number and giving them that information.

They might have a 7 digit emergency number. My city has that. It's the same number for fire too, so, it's pretty much 911 without the automated address location technology.

As far as the emergency service workers are concerned, they could be paid in the exact same manner they were paid prior to 911. Police and fire departments were answering the phone prior to 911. Any 911 tax should be dedicated to paying for the technology, and that price ought to be coming down.

sskyking
@rr.com

sskyking to cmthru

Anon

to cmthru
911 should be optional on any given line, because you shouldn't have to pay more than once for the same service. I have a landline, two cell phones and MagicJack for my work from home line. I do NOT need 911 service on Magic Jack and I'm already paying a 911 charge on my landline and both cell phones! Why should I have to pay FOUR times for the same service?

Gonzo122
@rr.com

Gonzo122 to cmthru

Anon

to cmthru
Morning gents , a lovely day to attend Farmaid, awaken to the sound of my email tones...

Looks like magic Jack keeps changing their story.

Here's a letter I received today.
This is a bill.

Certain emergency communications districts have required that we attempt to bill you via email the charges they impose for your being able to dial 911 services. If you wish to continue to be able to dial 911, it is important that you pay this charge. If you have access to 911 services but do not pay this government-imposed charge, the emergency communications district in your jurisdiction may seek to collect any amounts from you directly.

MagicJack does not profit at all for this service and the funds we collect are turned over to the government authority pursuant to their requirements.

Please click here to find out the specific charges in your area and you will be directed on how to pay for them.

WTF?

What happend to optional?

greenman
join:2002-06-18
Athens, GA

greenman

Member

said by Gonzo122 :

WTF?

What happend to optional?

Regardless of whether they separate their systems as magicJack and Ymax in order to attempt to bypass federal requirements on any device that sells itself as a phone service alternative, the local 911 services are going to ask for payment either through magicJack or directly in a letter from the 911 services in your county.

I think what they may be saying is they'll ask, but if we don't pay, they're not going to force us to do it. But as you've rightly pointed out, the email is vague enough that we are left to come up with our own interpretation of what they may have meant.

shhcooter
@verizon.net

shhcooter to Frodo

Anon

to Frodo
there's a thought, register your number , if you call 911 for assistance for yourself you pay a nominal fee ( 5 bucks-10 bucks) something we can all go along with that won't break your bank, if the call is to help someone else it should be no-charge to you
8744675
join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA

8744675 to NoThanxDan

Member

to NoThanxDan
The issue is that with 911, they know your address and can find you in an emergency if you call 911 but can't talk or if you hang up. They'll often send a police car by to check if they get a hang up and suspect it was under duress.
pensioner
Premium Member
join:2005-02-20
Gulfport, MS

pensioner to cmthru

Premium Member

to cmthru
not sure which of the three 911 threads to post in but here goes - can I unenroll my MJ+ from 911 service as I have no need for it on the MJ. I have a land line and two cells with 911. Went onto my.magicjack and do not see any unenroll option. Thanks

u4icmusic
@epbfi.com

u4icmusic

Anon

According to the magic jack website, you cannot un-enroll from 911.
Frodo
join:2006-05-05

Frodo to cmthru

Member

to cmthru
Well, just got my email and I'm not enrolled in 911, according to their website. I didn't click on any link in the email.

Their letter says...
quote:
If you have access to 911 services but do not pay this government-imposed charge ...
Well, since their website indicates that I don't have 911, and there are no dropdowns or any means for me to put a service address in, I don't see how they can bill, unless they are chasing money for my expired original magicjack, which expired prior to their first 911 email.

I went to the wayback machine and checked out the TOS for 2009
»archive.org/web/web.php
Put in: http://www.magicjack.com/tos/
quote:
... you will update the Emergency Services record at »my.magicjack.com and provide the new address where you are using the magicJack device. If you fail to do so the free voluntary 911 service will not work.

I printed this to a pdf, and also have printed the current TOS to a pdf. Their current TOS is here.
»www.magicjack.com/plus-v ··· tos.html

I thought I couldn't find a 2012 TOS, but looky, looky
»archive.org/web/web.php
Put in: http://www.magicjack.com/plus-v05/tos.html
Still calling it free voluntary 911 there. The latest "free voluntary" at Wayback is Oct 20, 2012. May 2013 is calling it "voluntary". I'm printing a bunch of them to PDFs.

I love that Wayback machine. I'm not seeing "voluntary" now in the current TOS. But, in the lower left corner of the site, I'm seeing a FCC logo.
Frodo

Frodo to u4icmusic

Member

to u4icmusic
said by Anon80:

According to the magic jack website, you cannot un-enroll from 911.

I think there may be one way. If I'm reading the doc right, 911 works in the US and Canada. So, I suppose one could try changing the service address to France. The thing about the 911 is, they need a location to figure out the bill.
Frodo

Frodo to cmthru

Member

to cmthru
Just noticed something.
The Aug 6, 2013 TOS from Wayback machine.
quote:
"... provide the new address where you are using the magicJack and/or magicJack Plus device. If you fail to do so, voluntary 911 Service will not work."

The current TOS, which I recommend printing to a PDF.
quote:
"... provide the new address where you are using the magicJack and/or magicJack Plus device. If you fail to do so, delete 911 Service will not work."

Whoever was told to write up the new TOS was supposed to delete "voluntary". Instead, they substituted "delete" for "voluntary".

So far, this whole matter has done nothing but bring a smile to my face. And I don't blame Magicjack. They're trying to provide me with a service I want, barebone telephony at a barebone price. It is the FCC, who is trying to forcefit a 20th century model on 21st century communications that I blame. I look forward to the day that we're all communicating IPv6 to IPv6.
monkeyboy2
join:2000-07-30
Syracuse, NY

monkeyboy2

Member

I probably shouldn't have, but I clicked thru this MJ 911 email to see what they wanted to charge:
$10/year or $1/mo. My cell phone carrier only charges $0.30/mo. Why is MJ 911 service so much more expensive? They it all goes to the local gov'ts, but something doesn't add up...
pensioner
Premium Member
join:2005-02-20
Gulfport, MS

pensioner to cmthru

Premium Member

to cmthru
if it ever comes that we really have to pay a 911 annual fee, I just changed my 911 address from my $1/mo Clarksville location to the city hall address in Austin TX, $.50/mo. We'll see what happens, if anything happens.

greenman
join:2002-06-18
Athens, GA

greenman

Member

So you're saying you chose a cheaper location for your address, paid for it and then changed the address back in order to pay a cheaper location rate? Sneaky. Do you think it will work?
pensioner
Premium Member
join:2005-02-20
Gulfport, MS

pensioner

Premium Member

more or less, changed the address to Austin TX, but did not pay for it and have no intention of paying for it unless I'm somehow forced to do so; then theoretically would have to pay $6 rather than $12. Also have not changed my location back to my real address in Clarksville TN - have no need for MJ 911 so no way would I ever use it for real 911 calls.
dtgoodtonid
join:2005-01-16
Lexington, KY

dtgoodtonid to cmthru

Member

to cmthru
»www.kentucky.com/2013/09 ··· ing.html
SeniorNerd
join:2013-09-27
U.S.A.

2 edits

SeniorNerd to cmthru

Member

to cmthru
I want 911 on my MJ+, but not my MJ Classic. So I 'moved' the Classic to Tundraville, Alaska (don't bother to look for it). It has the same zip code as Wainwright AK, 99782. Not surprisingly, MJ can't verify location for my MJ Classic. So they don't seem to be providing 911 service for that unit. My Classic 911 button is red. Will advise on outcome.

greenman
join:2002-06-18
Athens, GA

greenman

Member

It's odd that there is no method to disable 911 anymore.
andre2
join:2005-08-24
Brookline, MA

andre2 to redpepper

Member

to redpepper
said by redpepper:

When that day comes Obihai and other standalone device options that use the Google Chat based public developer API will cease to work. This will force users to keep their Gmail (or another Google interface) open with Google ads displayed of course in some form or another on an active computer to be able to place and receive calls the way Google probably really envisioned and intended.

Fortunately, nowadays a cheap tablet costs about the same as an OBi device, and it could be plugged in continuously at home, not using the battery. Then only the tablet would need to be logged into Google.