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Stephanie

join:2013-08-27

[DSL] New to TekSavvy - Trying to get /28 static IPs working

I'm brand new to TekSavvy. They have connected me with a 50/10 DSL service, a Sagemcom modem/router, and I have "1 static plus 14 static IP addresses".

The guy who did the installation did not know anything about the IPs and as soon as the lights came on on the modem his job was done.

The modem is online and active and the '1 static IP' shows on the internet connection. As near as I can tell though there is no way to turn off NAT and the LAN ports on the modem are all locked into a 192.168.n.n scheme.

They told me the block of IP addresses that I have for my /28 block, but if I configure my equipment using those addresses, they have no connection to the internet. No surprise because the Sagemcom appears to be locked to the 192.168.n.n NAT setup.

I've been browing the forums here and it seems like there's a lot more knowledge here than at Teksavvy.

I am getting the feeling I need more equipment, or different equipment. If the Sagemcom is not able to do the job, should I return it to TekSavvy?

Can someone please explain what I need to do to get my static IPs active and online?

Thank you!

Limahaurix

join:2013-06-20
If you go to the Network page underneath Settings in the Sagemcom, in the DHCP section it should let you change the Router IP Address (set it to the default gateway of your subnet, should be the subnet address +1 ex if your subnet is 69.12.14.64/28 then you would use 69.12.14.65) and then you would set the DHCP start to the next address and end to the second-last address (in this example DHCP start would be .66 and DHCP end would be 78).

Give that a try and let me know how it works out.

Stephanie

join:2013-08-27
Thanks for the response!

I have tried this but I get an error on the screen "Incorrect IP address: please select another IP address.". There is a hovertext help for the ip address and it says it has to be in the range of 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.254.254 -- so it seems that the modem is locked-out from using real ip addresses?

Limahaurix

join:2013-06-20
reply to Stephanie
Welp, in that case it seems like you would need to use a real router ... however with the limitations on speed for PPPoE passthrough you may need to consult the threads on this board detailing how to put it into 'true' bridge mode to get it to go full speed with that setup. It might take a bit of work to get it all working...

Stephanie

join:2013-08-27
Thanks again -

I've seen the threads but it looks like the tool is Windows based and I don't have access to a windows system.

I'm feeling a growing sense of frustration, it seems like they'll happily sell services that they don't support, and sell modems that are not fit for purpose. I mean, if they know you're asking for a block of static IPs then why sell you equipment that can't actually support that? Or rather, why cripple the equipment so it can't handle it?

Sigh.

Can the Sagemcom thing just be replaced with another modem / router that will do the job?

Thanks again!

Limahaurix

join:2013-06-20
reply to Stephanie
Unfortunately it's currently required by Bell to have the Sagemcom sold with every VDSL package because of the Stinger SLAMs in certain areas, since not every VDSL modem is compatible with them. Depending on what SLAM you are connected to, it may be possible to use another VDSL modem/router... you should be able to find out by asking in the direct forum. But you'd still need to have the Sagemcom even if it's just sitting around.

Selling subnets without support is not the greatest, but since they're a more complicated/advanced feature that mostly gets used by business connections (that have IT depts that know how to use them), it's not really a good use of time to try teaching it to all the floor support, especially now that they're growing really fast.

Stephanie

join:2013-08-27
Thanks again for all the help!

That's the thing... I am running a business. I tried hooking up with Teksavvy's business people and they flat out told me to use their residential service because it was 'exactly the same just cheaper'.

I'm starting to think the real reason is that their business unit is just not prepared to support their business customers, and this way, they can write me off as a residential.

Ah well. I think I understand the situation now, so I'll slog through their support system again then if I have to, I'll go the bridge-mode route.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your taking the time!

notfred

join:2012-09-15
reply to Stephanie
If you are Linux savvy and you hunt through the Windows source code you can see what the Bridge Mode tool does and get it to work with Linux. I keep thinking I should put up a Linux version on GitHub or similar...


Keaters
Premium
join:2007-07-25
Chatham, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Stephanie
Stephanie,

I would put the Sagemcom into bridge mode by doing the following:

1) go to Settings>Network and under the DHCP section, disable DHCP.
2) Go to Setting>Wireless and disable the wireless
3) go to Setting>Internet and remove your PPPoE login from there.

Then, I would connect a separate router to LAN 1 of the Sagemcom. Then, I would go the router and set up your PPPoE so it has your static IP. Then, I would go into the DHCP settings and set your subnet up for your /28, and then give each person who will be using the server/network to set up their computer with the assisted static IP's for your /28.

That is the only real way to do it. Now, I hope you signed for the /28 that you got your subnet IP and static IP's that come with it, if not, post in the »TekSavvy Direct Forum so they can provide them to you.

I hope this helps out.

Stephanie

join:2013-08-27
Thanks for the info.

I have been told what the /28 IP addresses are. I just can't access them using the equipment Tecksavvy sold me.

I've read about bridge mode in other threads, and understand that I can buy additional equipment and maybe this will work. But the other threads suggest that without 'true bridge mode' the connection may be crippled or slowed?

So my option is to buy additional hardware and then 'hack' some unsupported firmware into the brand new equipment they sold me...

paulwye

join:2007-02-17
Toronto, ON

1 recommendation

I'm going to ask the semi-obvious question, with some hesitation, because it's hard to properly convey tone on the internet...but...

Why did you order a /28 in the first place? I'm not suggesting you don't need it, but I wonder if maybe you've ended up with something you don't actually require...? The reason I ask is that generally....and here's the part where I really don't mean to offend...if you know enough to think you need a subnet, you probably know how to set it up/what to do with it.

FWIW: whether you order residential or business, on Bell DSL or Teksavvy DSL, you're going to get a Sagemcom. Yes, this modem apparently has a speed limitation if you use it in bridge mode (the hack notwithstanding, but I agree that having to implement it is obnoxious). Not the first time a modem issued by Bell/Telus/Rogers/Aliant has had bad firmware, and probably not the last. There are a great many people here who are hoping this will be fixed with a firmware update, along with the intermittent 'sync no surf' issue (I include myself in the latter group). Yes, all of this blows.

But that aside....and this goes back to my second paragraph...if your requirements are such that you need a subnet, they're probably such that you need a more serious piece of routing hardware anyway (and perhaps a firewall...?). And since you're paying $240/yr. for that subnet, on top of the DSL fees themselves, a ~$100 router to support it doesn't seem unreasonable.

Truly, I'm not trying to be a jerk. I don't like being one of those people who says "no no, you're doing it wrong." But sometimes a better understanding of the problem's scope helps to produce better suggestions.

notfred

join:2012-09-15

1 edit
reply to Stephanie
said by Stephanie:

So my option is to buy additional hardware and then 'hack' some unsupported firmware into the brand new equipment they sold me...

Yup, and there is a proceeding before the CRTC currently over the VDSL modem situation. From my reading of it Bell have admitted to the CRTC that customers should be able to use any compatible modem. At the same time they currently force all customers (Retail and Wholesale) to purchase a new Sagemcom when the VDSL is provisioned.

Edit Proceeding is 2013-80 listed on the CRTC website »services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/instance···Lang=eng

Stephanie

join:2013-08-27
reply to paulwye
Thanks for the reply and no worries about the question. I get that it's not typical for a 'residential user'. Clearly it's not typical for Teksavvy. The second tech support guy I spoke to claimed he had done hundreds of installs but had never seen static IPs.

I'm running a small cloud-computing business and have a handful of servers to set up. We're downsizing and moving out of an office in an industrial-park and into my house. Teksavvy's business group convinced me to use their residential service as it was "identical but cheaper" to their business service.

I don't need all 14 IPs but there's nothing in between 6 and 14, for obvious reasons.

Cheers!


rodjames
Premium
join:2010-06-19
Gloucester, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·loclhost.ca
reply to Stephanie
First of all, you asked the installer about something he has no idea about, and cares nothing about.

Secondly, if you read the agreement on static IP's you would know that all engineering/routing etc is your own responsibility.

Third, if you can't figure out basic IP routing, you have no business running a cloud service. You need to back up, and learn some stuff. You're making money, and coming here for free advice. Go hire a network consultant or engineer. If your company isn't profitable enough for that, perhaps you should explore alternative employment.

Finally, you're trying to route front-facing IP addresses through a NAT router. I will ask you to re-read 1-3 and then have a real hard think about it.

If you want some advice, besides my snarky comments (and yes I will actually help you) DM me, and I'll give you my number.

oxfordwhite

join:2008-01-28
Kitchener, ON
said by rodjames:

First of all, you asked the installer about something he has no idea about, and cares nothing about.

Installer is not TSI, but Bell/Bell contractor which is what RodJames was implying.

said by rodjames:

Secondly, if you read the agreement on static IP's you would know that all engineering/routing etc is your own responsibility.

TSI does have to make sure that the IP block they assigned is routing correctly on their network though. If things are set up and are still not working, there has been a report of a block or two with bad routing that the TSI NOC has said they would be investigating and fixing.

said by rodjames:

Finally, you're trying to route front-facing IP addresses through a NAT router. I will ask you to re-read 1-3 and then have a real hard think about it.

The OP outlines understanding the issue. As I understood the query, it was recognized as the issue and was confused as to why they were not able to change it.

Stephanie

join:2013-08-27

1 edit
Thanks for the comments, snarky and otherwise

I have not received any form of agreement from Teksavvy. Despite 2 months of preliminary email correspondence with their business and technical people to ensure that their service would meet all my needs and requirements, when it came to actually setting up the service they managed to get my email address wrong everywhere they entered it.

(It took 1 hour and 45 minutes on hold this morning plus a further 30 minutes dealing with a TSI rep to sort the email problem out. That coupled with the 2+hours in their phone-hold system last night left me somewhat short of patience with the whole ordeal, unfortunately.)

I did not know the installer was not from Teksavvy. He did not identify himself as Bell or otherwise, but as the tech there to install my Tecksavvy service. He wasn't wearing a Bell uniform (or any other kind of uniform) and did not drive a Bell vehicle. When the plainclothes tech arrives in an unmarked car and identifies himself as the technician here to hook up my Teksavvy service, how am I to know he's not actually a Teksavvy technician?

Frankly because of the email snafu I didn't know what to expect from whom or from where. It's been a mass of stress and misunderstandings.

As for what I'm trying to accomplish, I've been running a 'cloud service' since before the term 'cloud' was in vogue - since 2001 in fact. I'm quite familiar with the processes of setting up and managing the network and servers et cetera. What I am new to is Teksavvy and DSL in general. For the past half dozen years I've been on a T1 line with MTS Allstream. Sadly circumstances are forcing me to downsize and move from a business office into my house.

Ultimately, after the past 24 hours, what I am coming to understand is that the equipment Bell provides for Teksavvy is restricted for residential use and there's nothing I can do about that. I need to tinker with its firmware and provide my own routing equipment. I don't have a problem with this from a can-do point of view. I have some problems with it in terms of Teksavvy overselling and underdelivering. (I.e. if they can't provide the necessary gear to utilize the services they sell, they shouldn't be selling those services. Or at least they should made it damn clear that it's a hit-n-miss-good-luck-with-that proposition.)

Equally, after the past 24 hours, I am wondering if I am making a terrible mistake and perhaps Teksavvy is not the right choice to have made.

Edited to add: I should have made this clear too - I am extremely grateful for the assistance that I've received here in these forums. Thank you.

MFido

join:2012-10-19
kudos:2
reply to Stephanie
From what I understand Teksavvy provide you with the static IPs and the subnets but then is on your own. They sell a service you request but not sure they need to know what you do with it. Or how you want to do it.

Now for the modem. Only the Sagemcom is available as of today but from what we read here in a month timeframe a brand new modem will be authorised and you may be able to use that one for the VDSL speeds and this problem will be solved


TSI Julian

@teksavvy.com
reply to Stephanie
Hello Stephanie,

I recently posted an answer to your question on support.teksavvy.com and will be following up on soon.

Thank you.
Julian


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
reply to Stephanie
A smoothwall or pfsense router can handle virtual ips without a problem.
I do not know how Teksavvy doles out their subnets.
--
~ Project Hope ~

Stephanie

join:2013-08-27
reply to TSI Julian
Thank you Julian - I appreciate your help and it was good speaking with you on the phone.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to EUS
@EUS The subnets are routed to the static IP given to the PPPoE connection.

gzfelix

join:2010-01-18
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Stephanie
I use a /29 block for my home office. The Sagemcom modem is indeed not capable of handling NAT or routing for the IP address block. I have a Juniper service gateway to dial PPPoE through the Sagemcom modem in order to route the /29 block through the assigned static IP. I would not go through the details but indeed you need a separate router/gateway device to handle the NAT or routing. However, as other people stated, without additional manual configuration, the Sagemcom modem is not able to handle full 50Mbps of downstream if using a separate router to dial through.

My experience with Rogers, Bell and a few other ISPs' business units gave me a lesson: No matter what their business support people say, they will not able to support your OWN network. You still need to be network-savvy yourself, or you have an IT guy to manage your network.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
@gzfelix I'm sure others have tried/tested but I haven't seen it... Can the Sagemcom modem do a static route, to route the subnet to a NAT'd IP?
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.

gzfelix

join:2010-01-18
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

1 edit
said by kevinds:

@gzfelix I'm sure others have tried/tested but I haven't seen it... Can the Sagemcom modem do a static route, to route the subnet to a NAT'd IP?

I think the Sagemcom can do DMZ if you really want to. You still need a separate device to handle the routing of the block.

The Sagemcom is in fact a Linux computer. You could do pretty much whatever you want with it in CLI. I don't think its web UI has anything like that.


rodjames
Premium
join:2010-06-19
Gloucester, ON
reply to Stephanie
If you are doing NAT of ANY KIND you are not routing those IP's properly. You are combining a bunch of RFC's that aren't supposed to be used in conjunction.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to gzfelix
I'm not sure this is not possible, but I was thinking about it...

Sagemcom ppp0 having the static IP 68.45.55.148 assigned block 64.88.74.144/28 eth1 192.168.0.1/24. Static routing on the Sagemcom to route the block to 192.168.0.20.

Normal/Full router eth0 192.168.0.20 eth1 64.88.74.145/28

Static routing so that it doesn't NAT the block, just routes it
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.


rodjames
Premium
join:2010-06-19
Gloucester, ON
reply to Stephanie
I have a buddy who has this working on his TSI DSL. Let me query him for his working method. That's the least I can do.


rodjames
Premium
join:2010-06-19
Gloucester, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·loclhost.ca
me: yo
Mike: sup
Sent at 5:05 PM on Thursday
me: can you describe how you have your /28 block working on TSI DSL?
what router, and what configuration did you use

Mike: cisco routers
one is in routed mode not firewall mode

then a second router is set using static ip on both interfaces in routed mode as well
no NAT happening

me: k, where is the pppoe getting negotiated

Mike: first router
then it gets a static ip

Mike: and that static ip is where the block is routed

Stephanie

join:2013-08-27
Thanks again everyone for your help and input.

I have done the following:
1) Done the telnet/stats unlock on the Sagemcom modem
2) Put the Sagemcom into bridge mode
3) Bought a solid business class router*
4) Configured the router's WAN for PPPoE with the user id & password Teksavvy assigned me
5) Configured the router's LAN for the /28 static IP addresses that Teksavvy assigned me.

Result: SUCCESS!

I have my desktop and one fileserver up and running now with the assigned static IPs, so I can proceed with testing and evaluation. If all goes well from here, I can move the rest of the servers over.

As I said earlier, I'm very greatful for the help and information everyone's made available here.

Cheers!

* edited to add: I call it 'business class' because it's capable of doing classic routing rather than the NAT that most home routers seem to be designed for.

gzfelix

join:2010-01-18
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to rodjames
said by rodjames:

If you are doing NAT of ANY KIND you are not routing those IP's properly. You are combining a bunch of RFC's that aren't supposed to be used in conjunction.

Although NAT and routing static IPs are separate use cases, they can be used together.. My network has a block of IPs for my services and a bunch of private IP networks that need PAT.