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aefstoggaflm
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Delaying the inevitable?

I saw at

»www.networkworld.com/news/tech/2···219.html

there are different stages of deploying IPv6.

and I saw this interesting text

quote:
But APNIC is a bit of a surprise. Given the RIR depleted their IPv4 address pool over two years ago, I expected more networks to be in the “Deploying” and “In Production” stages. This implies Asia is using more workarounds, such as NAT and CGN, to delay the inevitable.

and I have to wonder why companies are delaying the inevitable regarding IPv4 and IPv6.

#1 Why are companies are delaying the inevitable regarding changing from IPv4 to IPv6?

#2 Is that typical that companies are delaying the inevitable, regarding change in general?

Thank you
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guppy_fish
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Its all about $$, deploying and change all the network gear to support IPV6 has no payback. Its simple to have carrier grade NAT and that's where the bulk of the solutions to depleted IPV4 address do. IPV6 being common is decades, if ever away



aefstoggaflm
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Please explain what you mean by these things:

a)

said by guppy_fish:

Its all about $$, deploying and change all the network gear to support IPV6 has no payback.

b) AND

said by guppy_fish:

Its simple to have carrier grade NAT and that's where the bulk of the solutions to depleted IPV4 address do.

c) When you say

said by guppy_fish:

IPV6 being common is decades, if ever away

you mean no longer running IPv4 and IPv6, only IPv6?

Thank you
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chamberc
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join:2008-08-05
Irving, TX
reply to aefstoggaflm

With so much nat to go around, IPV6 is simply unneeded despite the sky is falling folks claims.



Cabal
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reply to guppy_fish

CGN is working out great in the UK:

»www.pcpro.co.uk/news/broadband/3···-sharing
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aefstoggaflm
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said by Cabal:

CGN is working out great in the UK:

»www.pcpro.co.uk/news/broadband/3···-sharing

No, it is not.
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NS4683

join:2000-08-25
South Amboy, NJ

1 recommendation

I think that was sarcasm.



aefstoggaflm
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reply to chamberc

said by chamberc:

With so much nat to go around, IPV6 is simply unneeded despite the sky is falling folks claims.

Keep on dreaming. It is needed for the long term, future of the Internet..
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chamberc
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said by aefstoggaflm:

said by chamberc:

With so much nat to go around, IPV6 is simply unneeded despite the sky is falling folks claims.

Keep on dreaming. It is needed for the long term, future of the Internet..

No doubt... but that future need is a long way off.

guppy_fish
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reply to aefstoggaflm

CGN is what runs all the mobile data, no issue there, and no mob looking burning down the tower.

Most residential users don't use all 65K ports per IP address, that's the waste of IPV4. Anyways, regardless of the opinions here, CGN is the future for residential internet, more control and profit for the internet providers, IPV6 will be a business thing, not residential


Kearnstd
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reply to aefstoggaflm

IPv6 Is needed for the future, However at least in the US you have to remember that the modern investor does not care about even what is two years down the road, Because two years is not next quarter.

A big big issue with IPv4 was all those blocks they awarded to first generation ARPANET and Internet companies and schools. There are companies with tens of millions of IPs that they will never use but they still own the blocks and the only way to get them back into the pool is to buy them.
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aefstoggaflm
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reply to guppy_fish

said by guppy_fish:

CGN is the future for residential internet, more control and profit for the internet providers, IPV6 will be a business thing, not residential

Then why is Comcast deploying IPv6 to its residential internet users?

At »www.comcast6.net/ I see these two headlines and notice the dates of them.

a) Business Internet IPv6 trials have begun - Published on Thursday, July 11, 2013

and I see

b) Native IPv6 enabled for residential broadband in Oregon - Published on Thursday, May 30, 2013
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Wily_One
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San Jose, CA

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reply to aefstoggaflm

said by aefstoggaflm:

#1 Why are companies are delaying the inevitable regarding changing from IPv4 to IPv6?

There is no "killer app" that only runs over IPv6, thus no real incentive. If the majority of customers were demanding access to something that was only reachable over IPv6, then providers would have to respond with more urgency.

While IPv6 is indeed inevitable, there's frankly no hurry for most users. Companies are taking their time, since it does require planning and in some cases new equipment to deploy properly, both of which cost money.


aefstoggaflm
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said by Wily_One:

There is no "killer app" that only runs over IPv6, thus no real incentive. If the majority of customers were demanding access to something that was only reachable over IPv6, then providers would have to respond with more urgency.

Ok

I heard/read at »www22.verizon.com/Support/Reside···8742.htm

that

quote:
Today (2012) the industry has very few sites that are IPv6-only and would require you to change your equipment (less than 1%)
and I checked their claim using »6lab.cz/live-statistics/ and it is still true in 2013.

Considering that info that I found and the info that you just told me, what percent has to be IPv6 only before ISPs respond with more urgency?

Thank you
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Wily_One
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said by aefstoggaflm:

...what percent has to be IPv6 only before ISPs respond with more urgency?

There's no real answer to that; we can only guess. I doubt there is some "magic number" that will suddenly increase urgency. What will drive demand is not just the number of IPv6 sites, it's their popularity. Just think of the major websites: Facebook, Google, etc., and the kind of traffic they draw. I'd guess IPv6 accounts for less than 3-5% of that at best.

If something came along as popular as Facebook but was only over IPv6, then you'd see more action.


tschmidt
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said by Wily_One:

If something came along as popular as Facebook but was only over IPv6, then you'd see more action.

That is the Achilles heel for IPv6, there is no first-mover advantage and no reason to adopt it until there is critical mass.

Carrier class NAT is an ugly workaround but will allow ISP to postpone conversion.

The other thing to keep in mind is the state of IPv6 support in residential networking gear and the inevitable increase in support cost as IPv6 gets rolled out. No ISP willingly takes on additional support cost.

I thought the Feb 2011 issue of the last IPv4 /8 address blocks would have resulted in dramatic acceleration in use of IPv6 but I was mistaken.

/tom


nwrickert
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reply to guppy_fish

said by guppy_fish:

IPV6 will be a business thing, not residential

Why would businesses want IPv6, if their customers don't have it?
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guppy_fish
Premium
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Lakeland, FL
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Unlimted IP's and no NAT necessay, read up on what IPv6 is about ..



nwrickert
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said by guppy_fish:

Unlimted IP's and no NAT necessay, read up on what IPv6 is about ..

Having lots of IPs is useless if your customers cannot connect to them.
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guppy_fish
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reply to aefstoggaflm

I wrote read, not reply

IPV6 doesn't have NAT, and its a small percentage of IP's that are used for WAN.



aefstoggaflm
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said by guppy_fish:

IPV6 doesn't have NAT

#1 So what? I point to

a) »www.infoblox.com/community/blog/···-want-it where it says What about the security I get from NAT?

b) »www.ipv6now.com.au/primers/IPv6Myths.php where it says Myth: The lack of NAT in IPv6 reduces security and about IPv4 where it says Myth: NAT is not a problem

#2 Correction it does but not connection sharing, as addressed in »ipv6friday.org/blog/2011/12/ipv6-nat/

said by guppy_fish:

and its a small percentage of IP's that are used for WAN.

What do you mean by that?

Thank you
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aefstoggaflm
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reply to tschmidt

said by tschmidt:

said by Wily_One:

If something came along as popular as Facebook but was only over IPv6, then you'd see more action.

That is the Achilles heel for IPv6, there is no first-mover advantage and no reason to adopt it until there is critical mass.

The chicken and egg problem, right? (What came first the chicken or the egg)
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aefstoggaflm
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reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

said by guppy_fish:

IPV6 will be a business thing, not residential

Why would businesses want IPv6, if their customers don't have it?

I guess. Because they want to talk to their business partners??
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aefstoggaflm
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reply to Wily_One

said by Wily_One:

said by aefstoggaflm:

...what percent has to be IPv6 only before ISPs respond with more urgency?

What will drive demand is not just the number of IPv6 sites, it's their popularity. Just think of the major websites: Facebook, Google, etc., and the kind of traffic they draw. I'd guess IPv6 accounts for less than 3-5% of that at best.

If something came along as popular as Facebook but was only over IPv6, then you'd see more action.

Then let us all start putting pressure on Facebook and other social media sites, to go to IPv6 only. Let us start this ball rolling already...
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nwrickert
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reply to aefstoggaflm

said by aefstoggaflm:

said by nwrickert:

Why would businesses want IPv6, if their customers don't have it?

I guess. Because they want to talk to their business partners??

Many businesses are heavily firewalled, and use private IP addresses for most of their internal communication. They typically provide limited VPN access for business partners. They mainly use public IP space for communication with customers.

Ordinary end users have the most to gain from IPv6. Waiting for it is frustrating. AT&T made what seemed to some of its end-users to be an assurance that we would have IPv6 by June 2012. But we still don't have it.
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justin
..needs sleep
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New York, NY
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2 recommendations

reply to aefstoggaflm

From the other end, look at how poor things are in web hosting land.

NAC: yeah you can have IPv6 but you have to relocate to our newer data center
Liquid Web: yeah we are IPv6 ready! but not on any of the managed servers because cpanel doesn't support it yet.
Amazon: yeah we do ipv6 but you must create your servers using the "old" interface, in only two of our many zones, and THEN you have to use our elastic load balancer to offer an ipv6 address (but it will talk ipv4 to your machine).

So that is why 99% of sites don't offer ipv6 dual-stack or even bother with an ipv6 proxy. Because it doesn't yet come "free" piggy-backed onto their products in the same way HTML5 comes "free" with newer browsers, ready to be explored.

There needs to be pressure from whatever central authority handles routing or something: all you guys needing our help, you must be providing a rising percentage of your customers IPv6 by default, for free, on the following timescale, otherwise you can't (whatever it is they must have). The way california is forcing automakers to increase EV adoption and thus add EV charging stations.



tschmidt
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said by justin:

From the other end, look at how poor things are in web hosting land.

Interesting and rather discouraging. I did not realize things are so bad in hosting land.
I assumed once you got beyond the first-mile IPv6 support would be much better.

Looks like hosting services are caught up in the same chicken n egg situation as everyone else. Since c-Panel is pretty much ubiquitous until they support IPv6 not much is going to happen.

/tom


anon ipv6

@rcn.com
reply to justin

said by justin:

From the other end, look at how poor things are in web hosting land.

NAC: yeah you can have IPv6 but you have to relocate to our newer data center
Liquid Web: yeah we are IPv6 ready! but not on any of the managed servers because cpanel doesn't support it yet.

#1 Then in that case, it is time to put a lot of pressure on cpanel.

#2 I find it hard to believe that cpanel is the UI of it kind, there must be some sort of competition.

#3 If cpanel can't do it (or in a reasonable time frame) it is time to vote with your feet/wallet....


aefstoggaflm
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2 edits
reply to justin

said by justin:

From the other end, look at how poor things are in web hosting land.
NAC: yeah you can have IPv6 but you have to relocate to our newer data center
Liquid Web: yeah we are IPv6 ready! but not on any of the managed servers because cpanel doesn't support it yet.

News

h**ps://www.buycpanel.com/9202013-ipv6-support-why-webhosts-and-website-owners-anticipate-this-update

Note In the URL replace the ** with tt
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justin
..needs sleep
Australian
join:1999-05-28
New York, NY
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for something important you'd think they'd write the news release in proper english, and actually have it say something. Or is this site just a dumb reseller creating fake news in order to keep their site ranked?

quote:
cPanel then listed to the request and is now in process of supporting IPv6 in their system.