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MrFix3

join:2007-05-02
Eastchester, NY

High bandwidth usage on residential generates letter

I've been running a Tor non-exit relay on my home PC for a while, and today I received a letter from Verizon stating I was violating their terms of use because of excessive usage. I have disabled Tor for now as I assume that was what was eating up the bandwidth (I occasionally use BitTorrent to ul/dl live shows but don't run it all the time).

Is there a way to tell for sure that Tor was the culprit?

Thanks!

John



Jcink

join:2005-12-19
none

Tor nodes can use a ton of bandwidth. It was probably that.

You can run something like WhatPulse »www.whatpulse.org/downloads/ to track your bandwidth usage. I can't imagine some occasional torrenting would get you a letter for this.

I'm very curious as to how much you were using a month to get this. It seems they are really cracking down on users now, I just had word from a friend who knows someone else that got one of these letters today as well.


guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to MrFix3

Tor will run your line at maximum 24/7 AND you get to be the MPAA and RIAA's next most likely target as all that masked activity will track back to your IP. Being a TOR relay is probably the worst thing one could do with a residential service if you not looking to be visible to the NSA and all the copyright cops



germ

join:2006-09-30
Long Beach, CA
reply to MrFix3

It has to be tor. I use bittorrent a lot and I never go past 500GB a month of usage. Verizon's cap is around 10TB according to this article: »Verizon Cracks Down on 'Excessive' FiOS Users



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to guppy_fish

said by guppy_fish:

Tor will run your line at maximum 24/7 AND you get to be the MPAA and RIAA's next most likely target as all that masked activity will track back to your IP.

Isn't that the point of Tor.. that's is untraceable for entry/relay nodes? Obviously the exit node is traceable.

How would you trace something back to a relay node (not an exit node)?
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2

Exit relay is the default configuration for TOR, its pointless to shuffle traffic between TOR proxies. Yes it can be set to relay, whats the point of that?



Jcink

join:2005-12-19
none
reply to MrFix3

Simply knowing something was accessed/downloaded/etc and having the exit node IP address only... it is impossible.

But I think if someone sets up an exit node, they can get the IP address of the last node delivering content to you so you know it was at least relayed through them. So the exit node might be able to log middle nodes that pass data to them.

That being said I haven't ever heard of anyone getting in trouble for running an entry or middle tor node. Those are generally free from abuse letters.


guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2

TOR exit relays will get the letters for sure, that's the IP the torrent tracker. The TOR docs clearly say don't run on a residential node with exit relay ( which is the default configuration )



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11
reply to guppy_fish

said by guppy_fish:

Exit relay is the default configuration for TOR, its pointless to shuffle traffic between TOR proxies. Yes it can be set to relay, whats the point of that?

said by MrFix3:

I've been running a Tor non-exit relay on my home PC for a while

Point is it makes your scolding irrelevant. And I don't think a normal install of Tor defaults to being an exit relay, but it's been a long time since I used it.
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2

»www.torproject.org/docs/tor-rela···.html.en

"Note that public relays default to being exit relays"



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

Thanks, like I said, it's been awhile since I used it so I can't remember how I configured it. Seems silly to default to that when they make it very clear you shouldn't be running an exit relay on most connections. But the whole discussion is moot as the OP is running a non-exit relay.

So he's only breaking the Verizon TOS in two ways (providing services to others through your connection and excessive bandwidth), not three ways (copyright infringement)
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!


guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to MrFix3

I posted that as people should be scared straight, unless you really know your applications and how networks work ( an some do so ignore this posting ), don't be pawned into being someone else's mule.

That's what TOR is, sorry its the truth. If someone wants to have hidden traffic, let them get a VPN, not use all your bandwidth and lose your shinny fiber connection or worse


MrFix3

join:2007-05-02
Eastchester, NY

People can certainly debate the moral or legal issues for applications like Tor or Bittorrent.

My biggest problem with the notification from Verizon is that it comes across as rude to a customer that has been using FIOS for nearly seven years, with full blown TV/phone/internet plus cell service. Sending a form letter directing me to contact a Verizon Business representative is lame.

Expand your moderator at work

pinky321

join:2002-06-05
reply to MrFix3

Re: High bandwidth usage on residential generates letter

Would you please post the letter in this thread with sensitive information redacted?


MrFix3

join:2007-05-02
Eastchester, NY

It's posted in the News section - here


McBane

join:2008-08-22
Plano, TX

Instead of actually upgrading their backbone it sure looks like Verizon is going on a high bandwidth usage kick spree.



nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:16

Do you really think Verizon isn't upgrading the backbone for FiOS?


pinky321

join:2002-06-05
reply to MrFix3

That is from Grover8 See Profile's thread »Verizon just sent me a letter for 'excessive usage' (pic)

Did you note not every letter have exact same reasons?


MrFix3

join:2007-05-02
Eastchester, NY

Yes, my letter is exactly the same, though I assume the name under the poker chip is different. Same deadline dates and disconnect dates, and the same sales executive.


serge87

join:2009-11-29
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to pinky321

said by pinky321:

That is from Grover8 See Profile's thread »Verizon just sent me a letter for 'excessive usage' (pic)

Did you note not every letter have exact same reasons?

My letter was also identical to the word.

rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House
reply to Jcink

said by Jcink:

I just had word from a friend who knows someone else that got one of these letters today as well.

I wonder how many more than the 45 users Verizon cited, will actually get these letters.

rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House
reply to guppy_fish

said by guppy_fish:

Exit relay is the default configuration for TOR, its pointless to shuffle traffic between TOR proxies. Yes it can be set to relay, whats the point of that?

That would be the "O" part in TOR.

rebus9

join:2002-03-26
Tampa Bay
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Bright House

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to nycdave

said by nycdave:

Do you really think Verizon isn't upgrading the backbone for FiOS?

I'm under the impression VZ is way ahead of many providers since Verizon Business is huge in the enterprise transport/transit/long-haul environment, not just consumer broadband.

I'm sure I speak for many when I ask, "Why now?" This kill-the-abuser initiative seemed to parachute in out of the blue, all of the sudden.

The cynic in me says VZ reached a tipping point in subscriber uptake, where they felt comfortable starting the clamp-down. Until now, they've been tacitly riding the wave of good publicity by turning a blind eye to consumption while other providers have been crucified in the press. But now they have a pretty solid foothold, and maybe they feel it's time to flex some (unpopular) muscle without a lot of risk.