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BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert to Dragasoni

Premium Member

to Dragasoni

Re: [Internet] Possible YouTube Fix

said by Dragasoni:

Ok, then why does switching to my neighbors DSL fix the problem? Also, if I VPN into work YouTube works just fine, why is that?

-Dragasoni-

That is also discussed at length. I am not going to repeat myself on this again so Google it. We however are not throttling Youtube nor are any of the other providers also having the same issues.

Dragasoni
We're All Mad Here
Premium Member
join:2001-12-14
Palm Bay, FL

Dragasoni

Premium Member

Your official response is for me is to do a Google search on it? How about answering my question instead? Why does hiding my packets with a VPN fix the problem?
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert to Bulls729

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to Bulls729
Some advice for you. There are currently no North American providers engaged in throttling as you called UNLESS they have implemented it as part of their soft or hard cap limitations and it is CLEARLY documented in their terms of use. Since we do not have such limitations it does not apply to us...period.

While years ago it was "cool" to level the throttling thing at your provider (thanks to Comcast) it is no longer "cool or hip" in fact quite the contrary especially when it isn't happening. Those who do so are often seen as uninformed, technically unaware and generally uneducated as to how the internet works or what amounts to "noobs". Some will even ignore or not respond to people who constantly make that unfounded claim and I don't want you to get the label so stop with the throttling thing until you have properly educated yourself on the topic.

Your question has been clearly answered in multiple threads here, on the front page of this site pretty much anywhere you can think of on the web. As I said previously I am not repeating myself. The answers you seek are available with some simple web browsing I suggest you spend some time reading up on the subject.

Dragasoni
We're All Mad Here
Premium Member
join:2001-12-14
Palm Bay, FL

Dragasoni to BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

to BHNtechXpert
Look, arguing about it isn't going to solve anything. If you know of a way to fix it, please let me know because it's driving me crazy.

-Dragasoni-
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

said by Dragasoni:

Look, arguing about it isn't going to solve anything. If you know of a way to fix it, please let me know because it's driving me crazy.

-Dragasoni-

The way to fix it is to vote with your browser and stop using their site until THEY fix it. Google is only concerned about numbers and until they detect a decline in users they will not act period. We cannot call them up and say "hey google fix your stuff" it just doesn't work that way. Wish we could that would be much less of this nonsense I have to deal with.
MNFmonster
join:2013-12-02

MNFmonster to Dragasoni

Member

to Dragasoni
said by Dragasoni:

Your official response is for me is to do a Google search on it? How about answering my question instead?

He has stated many times that the official Brighthouse Networks answer to the slow YouTube problem is "Google it".

I guess until I'm able to find the answer on google, I'll just keep using my neighbors Verizon connection when I want to watch some videos on YouTube.
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

said by MNFmonster:

said by Dragasoni:

Your official response is for me is to do a Google search on it? How about answering my question instead?

He has stated many times that the official Brighthouse Networks answer to the slow YouTube problem is "Google it".

I guess until I'm able to find the answer on google, I'll just keep using my neighbors Verizon connection when I want to watch some videos on YouTube.

This took me less than 30 seconds to search....this is the last time (of many) I will post the links. So do not ask again. You guys have got to start reading threads.

»Sandvine: YouTube Issues Google's Fault, Not ISP Related

»www.internetphenomena.co ··· quality/

Dragasoni
We're All Mad Here
Premium Member
join:2001-12-14
Palm Bay, FL

Dragasoni to MNFmonster

Premium Member

to MNFmonster
said by MNFmonster:

said by Dragasoni:

Your official response is for me is to do a Google search on it? How about answering my question instead?

He has stated many times that the official Brighthouse Networks answer to the slow YouTube problem is "Google it".

I guess until I'm able to find the answer on google, I'll just keep using my neighbors Verizon connection when I want to watch some videos on YouTube.

I'm with you, same thing here; I have to rely on my neighbor who allows me to use his DSL, VPN into work, or tether to my cell phone.

I'm not expert by any means, but I do IT work for a large company. A company large enough to have two OC3's for our internet access. I can break 300 Mbps each way on a speed test no problem at work. I'm very familiar with networks and routing.

Either Brighthouse is throttling YouTube or their routing to Google is horrible. If I drop off my wireless and connect to my neighbors wireless with DSL and reload the YouTube video, it loads just fine. If I VPN into work from my cable modem and reload the video, it works fine. I've even tried bypassing my router and it still won't load. My cheap MetroPCS phone loads YouTube videos just fine over HSPA+ 4G.

I don't know what I'm missing here, and I'm really not trying to come off like a jerk. But I don't see how Google is at fault when their YouTube service works fine the minute I eliminate Brighthouse from the equation.

-Dragasoni-
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert to Bulls729

Premium Member

to Bulls729
Then you obviously haven't read what was just posted. Guys I'm done explaining it. I feel your pain...we feel your pain. If there was something we could do at our end it would have been done long long ago. I know of no provider that would put their customers through this frustration...none...especially us so do me a favor study what was provided for n'th time now, do your homework and look at all the other provider forums with the same complaints ad nauseum and see it for what it really is....do not throw the throttling thing out there again because it just isn't so.

As for this thread I'm done explaining the concept and reasons why because it's clearly documented here and across the web for everyone to see. Sorry but this is simply pointless I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.

Now on the flip side if other things are impacted other than Netflix and Youtube I want to know about it in direct and I will take a look at your premise equipment and configuration we'll figure it out....otherwise as I have stated previously the ONLY way you will get Googles attention is stop using Youtube opting instead for other services that actually work because otherwise they just don't care...they are counting on you not having the self control to switch....

telijah
Premium Member
join:2013-04-22
Brandon, FL

telijah to Bulls729

Premium Member

to Bulls729
And there is still no explanation why I have absolutely NO speed problems For me, this fix has worked tremendously. Yeah, I cannot watch any 1080 videos, so I guess I'll have to watch my cat videos in the measly 720... haha

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

mixdup to Bulls729

Member

to Bulls729
It's amazing how openly hostile the official rep of Bright House is to their customers.

It's slightly more complicated than "it's all Google's fault" even though they share part of the blame. And, there are ways for it to be the ISP's fault even if they aren't doing traffic shaping (see Verizon letting links to Cogent get completely saturated and refusing to upgrade). Saying such shows that either you have a complete disrespect for the intelligence of your customers or you are the "noob"
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert to telijah

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to telijah
said by telijah:

And there is still no explanation why I have absolutely NO speed problems For me, this fix has worked tremendously. Yeah, I cannot watch any 1080 videos, so I guess I'll have to watch my cat videos in the measly 720... haha

LOL
BHNtechXpert

1 edit

BHNtechXpert to mixdup

Premium Member

to mixdup
said by mixdup:

It's amazing how openly hostile the official rep of Bright House is to their customers.

It's slightly more complicated than "it's all Google's fault" even though they share part of the blame. And, there are ways for it to be the ISP's fault even if they aren't doing traffic shaping (see Verizon letting links to Cogent get completely saturated and refusing to upgrade). Saying such shows that either you have a complete disrespect for the intelligence of your customers or you are the "noob"

Lets make one thing perfectly clear. This specific thread was placed as a sticky to help people with the known work arounds not debate the issue, not serve as troll bait and not serve as your pulpit to flame me or anyone else here. Two have hijacked the thread and you continue to perpetuate the issue as usual. Stop it... If you don't have anything constructive towards a work around don't post in this thread...do it elsewhere. The bigger issue is why are you posting in the BHN forums and you are a Charter customer?
kmdean
join:2012-06-22
Orlando, FL

kmdean

Member

Using YouTubeCenter I've actually turned back on DASH playback and force it to start at 720p and that's been mostly fine over the last week. The Non-DASH playback doesn't support 1080p and higher and it's possible that Youtube is throttling that more than DASH since it's used by many of the Youtube downloader tools... although that's beginning to change as some downloaders have figured out downloading hires videos via DASH now.

JeffMD
join:2002-08-16
Edgewater, FL

JeffMD to Bulls729

Member

to Bulls729
Well this thread is kinda old and probably has nothing to do with YouTube's recent issues but I wanted to update that the last few days YouTube has been quite fast and I have been doing 1080p with few issues.
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert to Bulls729

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to Bulls729
Jeff it will change from day to day and server to server. As with all things Google we will never why or when because they just don't operate that way. Anyone who has experienced Google at a business level knows this....
billd104
join:2009-01-30
Oldsmar, FL

billd104 to Dragasoni

Member

to Dragasoni
Dragasoni, et al,

There is almost certainly a routing issue with some of Google's services, this is not a new issue and it's certainly not a BHN issue. IMHO the issue lies with the carriers for Google's fiber backbones instead of Google itself. Under periods of heavy load there appears to be choke points within the Google "network". See the tracert below for an example. Friday night prime time. 12/20/2013 10:10 PM EST

Hops 2-7 BHN, Low latency, no problem there.
Hops 8-10 TW Tbone Low to acceptable latency, no problem there.
Hop 11 TW Tbone marginal latency (Best guess is peering with Google network)
Hops 12-16 Google Network (1e100.net) Marginal latency with some packet disruption.
Hop 17 Google endpoint Acceptable latency, no problem there.

There are enough issues with other Google Services (Google Nexus 5 slow download wifi) to indicate that this is a global issue with Google services and not a ISP or even a regional one affecting much more than just YouTube.

Tracing route to google.com [74.125.29.113]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.18.1
2 7 ms 8 ms 8 ms 10.99.0.1
3 8 ms 8 ms 7 ms 72-31-237-7.net.bhntampa.com [72.31.237.7]
4 13 ms 13 ms 10 ms ten0-5-0-1.tamp04-car2.bhn.net [71.44.1.98]
5 21 ms 22 ms 23 ms ten-0-3-0-7.tamp20-car2.bhn.net [71.44.3.122]
6 26 ms 22 ms 22 ms ten0-13-0-0.orld71-CAR2.bhn.net [71.44.1.213]
7 19 ms 14 ms 15 ms hun0-6-0-0.orld71-cbr3.bhn.net [72.31.193.22]
8 16 ms 18 ms 19 ms 10.bu-ether15.orldfljo00w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [66
.109.6.98]
9 26 ms 26 ms 23 ms bu-ether18.atlngamq47w-bcr01.tbone.rr.com [66.10
9.1.72]
10 24 ms 23 ms 22 ms ae-1-0.pr0.atl20.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.177]
11 74 ms 62 ms 61 ms 66.109.9.90
12 61 ms 61 ms 63 ms 64.233.174.2
13 64 ms 65 ms 60 ms 66.249.94.6
14 51 ms 51 ms 50 ms 72.14.239.65
15 49 ms 49 ms 49 ms 72.14.234.55
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 38 ms 36 ms 37 ms qg-in-f113.1e100.net [74.125.29.113]

Trace complete.

BHN is not throttling anything that I can see. The problem lies with Google and their transit carriers.

Dragasoni
We're All Mad Here
Premium Member
join:2001-12-14
Palm Bay, FL

Dragasoni

Premium Member

First of all, this is a tracert to Google not YouTube. Second, packet shapers wouldn't throttle ICMP packets. And third, no one can explain why using a VPN solves my problem. To me it's 100% obvious they are throttling it.

Regardless, a call to them and a threat to report them to the BBB has solved my problem for the last two days, which I find even more incriminating. I suggest others do the same, since competition is limited for broadband.

-Dragasoni-

mixdup
join:2003-06-28
Alpharetta, GA

mixdup

Member

The problem is that when a service that has heavy one way traffic like YouTube or Netflix saturates a port, the ISP wants that service to pay for the upgrade or worse, pay for peering. ISPs want to get paid at both ends of the network--for providing you Internet service, and for providing companies like Google and Netflix access to you. Given how screwed the cable companies have been by content providers on the video side, it's a reasonable thing to worry about but on the other hand it completely screws their customers and goes against what the Internet was intended to be.

The most telling part is that for settlement free peering, most networks need to have some kind of balanced ratio of traffic. For large ISPs like Comcast and AT&T, you have to be roughly receiving as much traffic as you send. For smaller ISPs the policy is usually more lax (for example Charter's peering policy is 4 bits into Charter for every 1 bit out). The problem is that no ISP sells symmetric services, and obviously most home users are using vastly more downstream than upstream. ISPs basically want the model to be as if MTV were paying the cable company and you were paying the cable company, instead of how it works today where you pay the cable company and the cable company pays MTV.

When BHNTechXpert tells you "it happens on every ISP" and "that's just how the internet works" that's not completely honest. Yes, it happens at every ISP, but that is because every ISP is being a jerk, generally, when it comes to peering with the large video sites and other sites that have massive amounts of one-way traffic. When they say they don't "throttle" Netflix or Youtube, they are being honest but not completely truthful, because while it's not "throttling", allowing peering points to become completely saturated effectively throttles the throughput between two networks.

It's insanely complicated, and there are lots of mostly business, not technical, factors at work. If an ISP truly and honestly only cared about their customer experience, and weren't either trying to squeeze money out of the content provider or help benefit their competing services, they would do things like peer directly with Google or use Netflix's open connect.
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert to Dragasoni

Premium Member

to Dragasoni
said by Dragasoni:

First of all, this is a tracert to Google not YouTube. Second, packet shapers wouldn't throttle ICMP packets. And third, no one can explain why using a VPN solves my problem. To me it's 100% obvious they are throttling it.

Regardless, a call to them and a threat to report them to the BBB has solved my problem for the last two days, which I find even more incriminating. I suggest others do the same, since competition is limited for broadband.

-Dragasoni-

No it didn't. As usual Google's traffic management changed and your experience with it albeit temporary has also changed. We changed nothing on this end and nothing specific to you....BBB or not. Check your PM
billd104
join:2009-01-30
Oldsmar, FL

3 edits

billd104 to Dragasoni

Member

to Dragasoni
Youtube is still part of Google last time I checked, tracert to one or the other gets you the same result. It's all about routing. You being in IT and having all knowledge should know that. Watch out, paranoia is a cruel mistress.
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

BHNtechXpert

Premium Member

said by billd104:

It's all about routing. You being in IT and all should know that. Watch out, paranoia is a cruel mistress.

Just because someone is in IT doesn't mean they know anything about network routing. IT means anything from helpdesk to PC swapper and everything in between. While they may be very good at their particular job very rarely do they even understand the concepts as it applies to the internet. I deal with it all the time.
billd104
join:2009-01-30
Oldsmar, FL

billd104

Member

I agree 100% Gary, perhaps my tounge in cheek and slightly sarcastic reply wasn't clear enough the first time, that's why I edited it.
BHNtechXpert
The One & Only
Premium Member
join:2006-02-16
Saint Petersburg, FL

1 edit

BHNtechXpert to Bulls729

Premium Member

to Bulls729
And beware of any information from an "IT Guy" that throws the "Hey I work in IT listen to me" AND" throttling" around at the same time. Because most IT guys don't brag about it and none that I know will dare use the "throttling" card because that is one thing they do know better than to do. "Throttling" accusations are typically used by people who want to sound important with a buzz word or two but rarely and I do mean rarely know what they are talking about. Bercause if they did they wouldn't bother with the throttling nonsense. If you remember when Comcast and a couple of others did their nasty everybody wanted to sound like they knew something and every Tom, Dick and Harry accused their provider of throttling many would come up with elaborate cut n paste (from other net garbage) as evidence proving their technical prowess and case....once you spend the time reading their claim you quickly realize they are clueless.

Dragasoni
We're All Mad Here
Premium Member
join:2001-12-14
Palm Bay, FL

Dragasoni

Premium Member

You have no idea what I do or how much I know. It took someone other than you to explain the problem and answer my question, which speak volumes to me.

I should have known is was greed in the end.

-Dragasoni-
billd104
join:2009-01-30
Oldsmar, FL

billd104

Member

said by Dragasoni:

I should have known is was greed in the end.

I think most of the posts here have proven otherwise.

Google knows they have a problem, you can be sure of that. The growth of the internet has outpaced even Google, as aggressive as they are, and now they are playing catch up.

Dragasoni
We're All Mad Here
Premium Member
join:2001-12-14
Palm Bay, FL

Dragasoni

Premium Member

My routing to YouTube is totally different compared to the last time I did it:

C:\Users\Eric>tracert youtube.com

Tracing route to youtube.com [74.125.29.136]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms www.asusnetwork.net [192.168.1.1]
2 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 10.195.0.1
3 10 ms 10 ms 9 ms ten0-0-0-3.ORLD30-ser2.bhn.net [97.69.193.178]
4 15 ms 13 ms 11 ms ten0-4-0-4.orld31-car2.bhn.net [71.44.61.2]
5 16 ms 23 ms 23 ms ten0-13-0-7.orld71-car2.bhn.net [72.31.194.2]
6 14 ms 15 ms 15 ms hun0-6-0-0.orld71-cbr3.bhn.net [72.31.193.22]
7 14 ms 27 ms 14 ms 10.bu-ether15.orldfljo00w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.98]
8 37 ms 26 ms 27 ms bu-ether18.atlngamq47w-bcr01.tbone.rr.com [66.109.1.72]
9 27 ms 23 ms 28 ms ae-1-0.pr0.atl20.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.177]
10 91 ms 87 ms 87 ms 66.109.9.90
11 46 ms 46 ms 39 ms 72.14.239.100
12 72 ms 66 ms 64 ms 66.249.94.20
13 34 ms 76 ms 33 ms 216.239.48.41
14 37 ms 37 ms 87 ms 72.14.234.53
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 45 ms 37 ms 37 ms qg-in-f136.1e100.net [74.125.29.136]

Hop 15 has a bit of a problem, but as of right now it's working great and I hope it continues.

-Dragasoni-
Expand your moderator at work

telijah
Premium Member
join:2013-04-22
Brandon, FL

telijah to Dragasoni

Premium Member

to Dragasoni

Re: [Internet] Possible YouTube Fix

said by Dragasoni:

And third, no one can explain why using a VPN solves my problem. To me it's 100% obvious they are throttling it.

Probably the same explanation why I have absolutely no problems with YouTube...
itnoles
join:2008-04-20
Melbourne, FL

itnoles to Dragasoni

Member

to Dragasoni
Actually, Request timed out can be ignored because it is not much a problem. Somebody could made a firewall to suppressing ICMP (ping) responses.
said by Dragasoni:

My routing to YouTube is totally different compared to the last time I did it:

C:\Users\Eric>tracert youtube.com

Tracing route to youtube.com [74.125.29.136]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms