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DocDrew
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DocDrew

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How much is Netflix throttling your ISPs connection graph

Isn't this really the "How much is Netflix throttling your ISPs connection graph"? Since all the ISPs in the graphs commonly provide more bandwidth then the Netflix stats show, the slow speeds would seem to be caused by Netflix. Do I really believe there isn't an ISP that can provide over a 4 mbps average? no. So the limitation in speed would seem to be Netflix.

Take Google fiber for example... their tiers range from 5 mbps to 1 Gbps, yet Netflix can only provide an average of around 3.6 mbps? FIOS averages less than 2.2 mpbs?

Netflix stop throttling your customers' connections! If Netflix lifted it's own limits, the graph lines would all probably shoot up several mpbs and bring Netflix to it's knees since they're not buying enough bandwidth to support it.

graycorgi
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graycorgi

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Re: "How much is Netflix throttling your ISPs connection gr

It's the peering arrangements that cause this, which are mostly the responsibility of the ISP.

DocDrew
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DocDrew

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said by graycorgi:

It's the peering arrangements that cause this, which are mostly the responsibility of the ISP.

So you're saying none of the peering arrangements for ANY of the ISPs can support more than 4 mbps per customer from Netflix?

Did Google do such bad planning so soon for it's vaunted 1 Gbps connections? Does Google have so many poor performing user connections it dragged down their numbers below 5% of their most advertised tier? If so Google should REALLY fix that, but I don't think they can because the problem isn't them.

So how do all the other speed tests and sites commonly support more than a 4 mbps per customer average going through those peering points? Are my SamKnows tests done every few hours showing I get 30 mbps downloads wrong? Netflix puts my ISP at a little over 2 mpbs...
ArizonaSteve
join:2004-01-31
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Yeah, Netflix should start showing how slow they are streaming to the Roku. Mine buffers all the time on that but not on the PC or Android. Part of the problem is that their Roku app is just really bad and the other problem is their slow streaming service that can't keep up with a movie in HD and stops to slow down a lot of times.
silbaco
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I am pretty sure they average the bitrates being streamed, including content that is not offered in HD. That is at least part of the reason the bitrates are lower and it is also why RCN tops this list. Because they joined OpenCDN, then can offer SuperHD which tips the ranking charts in their favor. Netflix of course left that part out.

moldypickle
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I've not had a single problem w/ my Roku and that's counting the super HD stuff too. My longest buffer is about 2 seconds
34764170 (banned)
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

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Their streaming service works fine for users of the ISP I'm with. Your ISP needs to fix their network.
Bengie25
join:2010-04-22
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Re: How much is Netflix throttling your ISPs connection graph

said by DocDrew:

Take Google fiber for example... their tiers range from 5 mbps to 1 Gbps, yet Netflix can only provide an average of around 3.6 mbps? FIOS averages less than 2.2 mpbs?

The issue is that 95% of people stream at the exact same time from 3pm-11pm. This means the peering points need to handle hundreds of thousands of people at the same time all for 4mb/s.

If their peering points or even the last mile can't handle a constant load for long periods of time, it shows up as sub 4mb/s.
34764170 (banned)
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Re: "How much is Netflix throttling your ISPs connection gr

Having SD and HD bitrates lumped together into one single number just adds confusion to that number never mind the fact that its an average instead of also including a minimum and maximum speed.

DocDrew
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Re: How much is Netflix throttling your ISPs connection graph

said by Bengie25:

The issue is that 95% of people stream at the exact same time from 3pm-11pm. This means the peering points need to handle hundreds of thousands of people at the same time all for 4mb/s.

If their peering points or even the last mile can't handle a constant load for long periods of time, it shows up as sub 4mb/s.

So you're saying no ISP can handle Netflix's load? Not any of the one of them Netflix tracks? Not Google, not FIOS, not Comcast, none of them.... and it's the ISPs or it's peering points' fault? None of the ISPs have the bandwidth to handle just Netflix traffic?

Yet the majority of other uses of bandwidth and speed tests , often done at peak hours, or in the case of Sam Knows done every few hours, don't show the same low speeds in more than 90% of the cases... even when the ISP is loaded down with all that Netflix traffic.

Yeah, that doesn't pass the smell test. The low speeds measured by Netflix across providers is caused by Netflix. Pure marketing to drive Netflix agenda.
Bengie25
join:2010-04-22
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Your response is either very trollish or very ignorant, so I will not respond with a counter argument because it is a lost-cause either way.

moldypickle
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You suggest then that Netflix is throttling their entire user base in an attempt to sell more accounts..... I guess your logic makes more sense..... O.o

DocDrew
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DocDrew

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I'm not suggesting they do it to sell more accounts... That wouldn't even make sense.

Netflix is marketing a bandwidth chart that has no publicly known baseline or target. What is good? What is the highest an ISP can get? What is really behind the numbers? The number certainly don't reach the speed of the tiers the ISPs are selling or what customers are report they are able to at a range of other sites.

norm
join:2012-10-18
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Re: "How much is Netflix throttling your ISPs connection gr

HD from Netflix on an ISP that does not support their SuperHD platform is limited to 3mbit.

Depending on the location of CDN being used during streaming, you might very well be unable to obtain 3mbit even via a speed test. I often see videos served over TeliaSonera and Cogent, both of which I struggle to obtain over 1mbit with Verizon. Speedtests on speedtest.net using those same ISPs confirm congestion at peering points.

I am able to avoid these issues by using a proxy.
norm

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I discussed the streaming ranking system with an employee of Netflix involved in the ranking and she stated that only select titles that offer HD are included in the ranking.
norm

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Re: How much is Netflix throttling your ISPs connection graph

As stated elsewhere, 3mbit is the highest tier reachable on an ISP without SuperHD (OpenConnect). I personally would like to see these charts broken out by region AND time.

DocDrew
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DocDrew

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What happens if customer's turn down the bit rate on purpose... is that counted in Netflix numbers?

Although doesn't 2.3 GB per hour equal about 5.2 mb per second? Is that for SuperHD?

forgotmypass
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do you guys expect a 30 mbps uncompressed stream over the internet from netflix ?
Bengie25
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said by DocDrew:

What happens if customer's turn down the bit rate on purpose... is that counted in Netflix numbers?

Doesn't matter. Once a population becomes statistical significance, then usage patterns between populations should be nearly identical.

If one customer on one ISP turns down their bitrate, then another customer on another ISP will do the same.

The only thing left is the network, which one is better.

DocDrew
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DocDrew

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said by Bengie25:

The only thing left is the network, which one is better.

Who's network? Netflix, transit provider, ISP, or end user?
Bengie25
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said by DocDrew:

Who's network? Netflix, transit provider, ISP, or end user?

The entire network as a whole.

Someone mentioned that Netflix only counts HD streams, so someone turning down the bitrate won't affect the numbers. I am not sure if that is true or not.

Either way, the ratio should be the same for any large population. Why would someone turn down their bitrate except because of streaming issues?

DocDrew
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DocDrew

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said by Bengie25:

Either way, the ratio should be the same for any large population. Why would someone turn down their bitrate except because of streaming issues?

They would turn down the bit rate because they're worried about hitting monthly bandwidth limits. They could have 20mbps download rates but a 100 GB monthly limit.
Bengie25
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said by DocDrew:

They would turn down the bit rate because they're worried about hitting monthly bandwidth limits. They could have 20mbps download rates but a 100 GB monthly limit.

Simple fix. Net neutrality violation. Force ISPs to apply their TV and phone services to the same data caps. It's all data, so treat it the same.
Bengie25

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I agree with you on something!