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elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

Premium Member

Regulated roaming fees on the way?

So Michael Geist thinks so. We pay the highest roaming fees IN THE WORLD .

The CRTC has asked for information on roaming fees from the carriers. The gouging is astounding.

Consider an average family of four that travels to the U.S. for a long weekend. Each person travels with their cellphone, but limits their use to a few calls, checking email, and some text messages to co-ordinate plans. The parents spend only 20 minutes per day talking on their devices, the kids are limited to 10 minutes, and everyone sends ten texts per day. The family avoids bandwidth intensive activities such as streaming video or uploading multiple photographs.
The total cost for such modest usage? On Rogers, the hour of total talk time costs $87 per day, checking emails costs $31.96 per day, and the 40 texts adds another $30 to the bill. With a daily cost of $148.96, the three-day weekend total roaming cost runs to $446.88 plus taxes.

The situation is even worse with Bell and Telus, who both charge more for data usage. Assuming the emails used 10 MB per day per person (a very modest figure), Bell’s pricing of $6 per MB (Telus charges $5 per MB) would add over $200 per day to the family’s cost, bringing the weekend cost to over $1000.

No wonder they're so afraid of Verizon, this is bloody highway robbery.

»www.thestar.com/business ··· ist.html

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

Premium Member

Answer:

Wind Mobile would charge (for the family):
Talking: $6 per day
Data usage: $20 a day (assuming 40 MB)
Text messages: $2 per day

Total is $28 per day, or $82 for the 3 day trip.

Add $5 for the add-on, so $87.

Not great, but for 4 family members, it's not going to kill them. About 1/5th the charge of Rogers.

How can Wind do this and not Rogers?

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

Rogers charges $8/day for 50MB of data in the US, and that's automatic for anyone who's roaming with no special monthly fee. It's not bad, but it's certainly not great either.

It's the talk time and text messages that are murder. A ten minute phone call costs nearly $15.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

Premium Member

That's insane. They can't prove that it costs them that much.

Anyway, my last vacation to the US, just cheaper to buy a phone ($29 with 200 minutes included) from AT&T than screw around with my provider. Ridiculous.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

Yup. When I go over to the US I use a T-Mobile SIM. $3/day for unlimited everything. Can't complain.
loyd
join:2012-09-24
Toronto, ON

1 edit

loyd

Member

Nice

The $3/day unlimited everything sounds like best deal around. If you just need email and maps, 2G data is fine and you go for $2/day: »prepaid-phones.t-mobile. ··· ne-plans

If you go to US frequently, prepay $100 into your account, get $115 credit and they keep your number and voicemail active for full 1yr. »prepaid-phones.t-mobile. ··· ans-faqs
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning to elwoodblues

Member

to elwoodblues
Roaming is the last place the carriers can screw each other's customers with impunity. They just say "that's what the foreign carrier charged us". They have little motivation to negotiate better rates, as they get to do it to roamers who visit Canada too.
markf
join:2008-01-24
Scarborough, ON

markf to loyd

Member

to loyd
said by loyd:

Nice

The $3/day unlimited everything sounds like best deal around. If you just need email and maps, 2G data is fine and you go for $2/day: »prepaid-phones.t-mobile. ··· ne-plans

If you go to US frequently, prepay $100 into your account, get $115 credit and they keep your number and voicemail active for full 1yr. »prepaid-phones.t-mobile. ··· ans-faqs

Planning a trip I saw this. When (if?) I go down to the States, I'll unlock my phone and do this. I'm with Wind, so I could do the $3 unlimited and be laughing (compared to a regular roamer).

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to elwoodblues

MVM

to elwoodblues
Carriers generally pay nothing (or close to nothing) for roaming, because they have reciprocal agreements where they only pay for unbalanced amounts of roaming.

As in, if Rogers has a roaming agreement with AT&T, and they each handle 100 hours of roaming traffic for eachother in a day, no money is exchanged. But if Rogers consumes 101 hours, then they'd pay for the 1 hour.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to HeadSpinning

Premium Member

to HeadSpinning
It;s the same with the premium text msgs
A friend's wife had inadvertently signed up for some joke of the day text which costs $2 each.

The CSR at Telus has the never to tell him that Telus doesn't make any money on the deal.

How far can you bend over?

GreenEnvy22
join:2011-08-04
St Catharines, ON

GreenEnvy22 to elwoodblues

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to elwoodblues
What gets me is the lies customer service tell you.
Example, an employee went to Europe and did turn off his data roaming before leaving.But while there he got lost in the middle of the night and had to turn on data to get his google maps working.

So, we get a $300+ roaming bill for him. I call into Rogers and ask if they can lower it, like by retroactively adding a bundle (I think $30-50 bundle would have covered him). Being on a corporate plan, providers sometimes will do this. Our US office on Verizon often has this done.

So the rep refuses, and when I ask why they say that they can't retroactively add it because they need to know before the roaming is done so they can pre-buy the lower rate from the country.

This is BS since when you add a roaming addon it's not country specific, just region specific. They have no idea what country you'll be in. And all their roaming agreements are just going to be a set rate anyway, they don't micromanage at a customer specific level.

Thats on top of the insane rates they charge. The Rogers $8/day upto 50 meg new rate for data roaming is a big improvement, but the voice/texting is still horrible.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

It's no wonder they want to keep their cozy little Robellus club... Highly profitable.
zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC

zod5000 to elwoodblues

Member

to elwoodblues
To be fair I've never seen any concrete evidence of what our domestic carriers get billed when people roam around the world. All I've seen is heresay on conjecture.

I've given up and use foreign sims in my phone. When I went to Europe a few years ago I used a talkmobile SIM in phone. Rates in the UK were really good (it was only 7 pence/minute to call back to Canada.. that's cheaper than domestic pay by the minute rates!). When I was out of the UK but still in Europe it was 35 pence/minute to call back to Canada (still not bad). Data was .25p for the day (assuming you didn't exceed 50mb).

When I go to the states I use a T-Mobile Sim. It's pretty good (unless your road tripping between cities, in which I might consider an AT&T SIM).

The problem is always going to be that your leaving your carriers territory. You're using someone else's network in which your carrier may have some control (or no control) over the rates. I don't expect that to change. Swapping out your sim is the most rational way to handle travel and maintain cell coverage.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

Premium Member

said by zod5000:

Swapping out your sim is the most rational way to handle travel and maintain cell coverage.

Now we deal with carrier lock. A buddy of mine went to Bermuda, and I told him to go to "freemyblackberry.com" to unlock his phone. He was "scared" that Rogers would hose him even more if he did.

This contract is up, he has paid for that phone 10x over yet he won't/can't unlock it. I would say that goes for the vast majority of cell phone users.
arahman56
join:2011-08-11
Etobicoke, ON

arahman56 to J E F F4

Member

to J E F F4
For Wind users, just getting a TMobile SIM and the $30/month plan would be much better. 100 minutes of talk, Unlimited text, 5GB of Data. No real changes in behaviour required (don't know if cheaper weekly/daily plans are available).

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by arahman56:

For Wind users, just getting a TMobile SIM and the $30/month plan would be much better. 100 minutes of talk, Unlimited text, 5GB of Data. No real changes in behaviour required (don't know if cheaper weekly/daily plans are available).

That plan is kind of odd because it's only available online and at Walmart. To get it at Walmart you need to buy a phone, and getting a SIM shipped to even a US address is extremely difficult if you don't have a US billing address for the credit card.

Trust me - I know this because I already tried Did they change it to be available in the corporate stores?
arahman56
join:2011-08-11
Etobicoke, ON

arahman56 to elwoodblues

Member

to elwoodblues
Again, Wind is pretty great in that regard. Yeah, the 6-month wait isn't the best, but that's countered by just needing a call (or inputting the IMEI on the profile page could work) and $10 to get a phone completely unlocked (though I would hope the non-WindTAB phones come preunlocked).
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada

bt

Member

said by arahman56:

(though I would hope the non-WindTAB phones come preunlocked).

Nope, they're locked.
loyd
join:2012-09-24
Toronto, ON

loyd to Gone

Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

That plan is kind of odd because it's only available online and at Walmart. To get it at Walmart you need to buy a phone, and getting a SIM shipped to even a US address is extremely difficult if you don't have a US billing address for the credit card.

Open US bank account, first they use address from your license, then change it to your US mailbox address.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

... that still doesn't solve the whole US address on a credit card problem or Walmart only selling phones - unless corporate stores now allow you to sign up for the plan? If that's the case, you don't even need a US bank account or address, as T-Mobile doesn't require a US credit card to purchase top-ups online. The US CC address is only required for products that need to be delivered.
willzzz
join:2007-05-23
NY

willzzz to elwoodblues

Member

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You know what's funny!?

It's cheaper for me the opposite direction to use a US prepaid SIM in Canada/Mexico than with Robellus.

AT&T GoPhone SIM's (In all of their GoPhone's, aka their prepaid product), has allowed cheap prepaid roaming in Canada/Mexico for ~1-2 years now.

The rates are here:
»www.wireless.att.com/lea ··· ming.jsp

0.39/minute in Canada and 0.25/minute in Mexico.

On the AT&T forums someone with the prepaid SIM went to Canada and their phone showed 'Rogers'.

I don't know who the carrier in Mexico is (telcel? (most coverage) lusacell? movistar?)

The funny thing is for their post-paid (monthly) subscribers the roaming rate is more expensive ($1/minute in Canada, less if you buy their packages to as low as 0.38/minute for a bundle of minutes).

Roaming in all other countries outside of North America (USA Canada Mexico) requires an AT&T post-paid (monthly account).

»www.wireless.att.com/lea ··· ages.jsp

Verizon has Canada/Mexico plans (though Mexico coverage is really limited because of the limited lusacell CDMA2000 coverage) which for $15 to a shared plan gets you 1000 roaming and long distance minutes to/from/in Canada!
»www.verizonwireless.com/ ··· s-canada

Why is it that US carriers are so much cheaper!? Though VZW is roaming on an empty Bell/Telus CDMA2000 network in Canada.
willzzz

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Thinking about wholesale rates... Robellus must be pocketing the profit $ if I can cheaply use my US phone in Canada/Mexico...

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart to Gone

Premium Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

Rogers charges $8/day for 50MB of data in the US, and that's automatic for anyone who's roaming with no special monthly fee. It's not bad, but it's certainly not great either.

It's the talk time and text messages that are murder. A ten minute phone call costs nearly $15.

Yup - my wife and kids came on a trip with me last month to Chicago. She called Rogers to confirm options and was told the only option was "Talk and Text" at around $40 if I recall. We added the option to her phone, and she was told that there was no data options for her particular package.

Skeptical I kept checking in with Rogers when we were in the USA and her portal account stated "Unlimited US Data" when we were there. Obviously I knew there is no such thing but no charges showed up for her BBM usage.

That changed when we got the bill for $160 (which included the $8/day just for her BBM to check in). She never actually used her BBM on the trip but of course it consumed data checking status.

I called Rogers to ask them how they can charge this when no notification or options were given and they told me their system is very broke for US roaming and nothing they can do. I escalated and got a credit for a *portion* of the charges - what BS that is!

The worst thing is that I had no problems paying for a data package for when we were in the US (if they offered us one) ... what upset me greatly was that Rogers themselves wouldn't offer a package let alone were able to tell us that this $8/day would even apply!

Grrrrrrrr....

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

When I called Rogers for info on roaming packages last winter the woman on the phone at Rogers actually told me to get a US phone instead. That sort of speaks for itself.

vsavulian
Premium Member
join:2002-11-26
ON

vsavulian to willzzz

Premium Member

to willzzz
said by willzzz:

I don't know who the carrier in Mexico is (telcel? (most coverage) lusacell? movistar?)

It is Telcel.
julienvf
join:2008-12-30
Verdun, QC

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Member

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I forward my calls to my US based Roam Mobility number and get the US unlimited plan from Fido (about 0,70$/day or 20$/month) so for about 5$/day tax included, I have unlimited calling, text and 100mb of 3g data.

pstewart
Premium Member
join:2005-10-12
Peterborough, ON

pstewart to Gone

Premium Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

When I called Rogers for info on roaming packages last winter the woman on the phone at Rogers actually told me to get a US phone instead. That sort of speaks for itself.

Yeah and had I known my wife was going to get billed like this I would have just gave her one of mine to use.... it was the point of them not knowing until after they billed me that got me mad. Next time I'll pay more attention and not bother calling them as they obviously don't konw what they are talking about anyways..
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

1 recommendation

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by pstewart:

...... and not bother calling them as they obviously don't konw what they are talking about anyways..

Either they've never known, or intentionally lied. You choose.

MFido
Montreal
join:2012-10-19

MFido to elwoodblues

Member

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»www.theglobeandmail.com/ ··· 4333517/

Bell is giving in to pressure from its subscribers and announced Monday that it is lowering the cost of its most popular out-of-country plans.

The move comes as the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission takes an increasingly hard line on roaming fees, which are amassed when a cellphone user leaves the country and piggybacks on another carrier’s network. Earlier this year it told cellphone companies they must warn subscribers when they reach certain usage limits, and last month it raised the spectre of regulating the amounts the companies charge their subscribers as it launched another review.

Bell didn’t mention the CRTC as it announced its new rate plan, which will cut prices by as much as 50 per cent for subscribers travelling to the United States with their phones. Instead, it said it was doing it because of the feedback it received over the summer as it fought against the entry of Verizon into Canada and lobbied for the federal government to change the rules to make it more difficult for large foreign carriers to come to Canada and buy spectrum and small carriers in a bid to compete in this market against established players.

nekkidtruth
YISMM
Premium Member
join:2002-05-20
London, ON

nekkidtruth

Premium Member

Still not good enough as far as I'm concerned.