dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
2225
share rss forum feed

LostinFog

join:2013-09-09

1 edit

[DSL] At loss for a countermeasure: TekSavvy/Bell issue with VDS

Hi,

I am a very recent customer with Teksavvy (activated for less than a week). Moreover, I have been following the ups and downs that Teksavvy has gone through since 2005, and in face of such adversity this tight-knit and well-oiled company has been able to impress me on numerous occasions over the years. I always hoped to make the switch whenever the right occasion presented itself, hence here I am.

I made this new account on DSLr to attend to a personal matter I wish to present to others in the hopes of finding the most appropriate way to deal with. Please note that TekSavvy has been incredibly professional, expedient and honest in handling my order and subsequent follow-up through their forum. My issue mainly pertains to my last mile provider, Bell Canada.

A few hours ago, I got a call from a TekSavvy technician trying to change my profile and he was completely stumped at my situation, as I am very close to the Bell SLAM. However, Bell tech kept informing him, that my line could only get a max profile of 3Mbps downloads and 0.5 Mbps upload for whatever reason. Thus, the TekSavvy technician told me that as such he would be unable to do anything further or provide me the plan I paid for.

I am currently getting 1.44 Mbps download / 540Kbps upload from SpeedOf.me and 1.53 Mbps download / 0.42 Mbps upload from speedtest.teksavvy.net .

Before making all these changes, while I was still with my previous provider (another TPIA), I had a 6Mbps/800Kbps plan and was actually getting around 4.8Mbps/600Kbps. That was my ADSL plan for many years without speed issues.

From what I know, and from the numerous personalized letters, brochures and door to door sales representatives I kept getting from Bell, I am eligible to Fibe 50/10 and Fibe TV at my residence, located in Montreal. Moreover, my home phone service is from Bell, that is my only service from Bell. I also verified service availability through the Bell.ca portal in regard to what was available for my phone number (landline) and Fibe 50/10 plan was the highest option.

It is somewhat sad that I cannot even get the 15/10 plan through a third party internet provider.

I have already paid 232$ for the Sagemcom modem/router and VDSL service and planning to prepay 550$ for a year worth or service, but I am at loss on what I could do from this point onward. Preferably, I would like to see what my current possibilities are in regard to actually getting a 15/10 VDSL internet plan.

Any help on how I should best tackle this situation would be greatly appreciated.

Please feel free to ask further question if need be.

Sincerely yours,
A very recent Teksavvy customer that really hopes to stay with Teksavvy.


Maxx2006

join:2013-02-02
Cambridge, ON
kudos:2

Re: [DSL] At loss for a countermeasure: TekSavvy/Bell issue with

I have not had DSL for years as i cannot get over 2 down i would advise you to copy and paste your post into the direct forum with your account # »TekSavvy Direct

randomcabler

join:2013-06-26
reply to LostinFog
Many years ago I had DSL from a wholesaler, I was getting a stable 5 Mbps down and 0.25 Mbps up.

Then Bell came to the building I was living in at the time and installed Fibe, my connection dropped to 1 Mbps down and 0.10 Mbps up.

I called in got a Bell technician to come, but he couldn't fix the problem for whatever reason said that they way it was wired up ruined the line quality and the connection profile dropped automatically, and recommended I switch to Fibe to get higher speeds.

I sent bunch of complaints to Bell & CRTC and eventually switched to cable, due to a lack of response from either.

Many months later, someone finally called from Bell and left a message on my voice mail saying that they would be willing to investigate the complaints about line quality deterioration (as others in the building experienced similar problems) & they wanted to rewire the entire thing, but at this point I was already on cable so I didn't follow up and eventually moved out, so not sure what happened.

So it's possible they may have messed something up for you, but maybe your case is different. Do you live in an apartment/condo building? If so perhaps see if Bell can send someone over to do a line quality test, tell them you had better speeds before if they say you can only get a max of 3 Mbps.

The speedtouch dsl modem I had back in the day gave line stats in the admin panel, so I was actually able to see myself that the line had deteriorated.


xsbell

join:2008-12-22
Canada
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Primus Telecommu..
reply to LostinFog
Sounds like an issue with the metallics, either on the Bell's side or yours (ISW). Did the Telecon tech at least test the sync at the NID/demarc, did he test your ISW?

Do you have a POTS splitter installed and is the modem connected on a separate pair?


jibby

join:2008-03-31
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to LostinFog
it's possible that when you moved to TSI, Bell moved you off the close DSLAM to a distant one (or central office)

i know in some instances, if there are ports available, they'll move you back - other times they'll claim that's best you can do (unless you subscribe to a higher tier, at which point they'll probably mysteriously 'find' a port)

also could totally be bad wiring/a short somewhere causing the bad line conditions, so that even if the SLAM is close you might be getting bad stats

do you know what your line stats are? or how to check them?

LostinFog

join:2013-09-09
reply to LostinFog
My post here is to explore the possibilities I may have to actually get VDSL. From my understanding, TekSavvy cannot do anything further as Bell keeps telling them that my max is 3Mbps, which is somewhat disingenuous on Bell's behalf as Bell themselves have been courting me with Fibe 25/10 and 50/10 plans, though extremely capped and not affordable compared to my trusty old ADSL service (6Mbps/800Kbps Unlimited plan).

Unfortunately, I am not as technically knowledgeable as I wish I could be, particularly in regard to the inner working of DSL/Cable technologies. However, as strange as it may sound, I am proficient enough to preseed my own linux distros.

In regard to line statistics, I did log some information from my Gnet modem (BB0060B). Following are line statistics I gathered through my Gnet's web portal previously (before any change or installation; has been the same for years):
java code:
Local  Tx Power:    10.97 dB
Remote Tx Power: 19.62 dB
Local Line Atten.: 21.0 dB
Remote Line Atten.: 20.0 dB
Local SNR Margin: 15.5 dB
Remote SNR Margin: 10.0 dB
Here are the line statistics I got from the same Gnet modem now (after a technician came and installed POTS splitters):
java code:
Local  Tx Power:    10.95 dB
Remote Tx Power: 19.34 dB
Local Line Atten.: 20.5 dB
Remote Line Atten.: 19.0 dB
Local SNR Margin: 18.0 dB
Remote SNR Margin: 10.0 dB
Honestly, I am unsure how to interpret these. But I did look into DSLr faq, and it looks like my line statistics are better now, though clarification/correction is appreciated. Also, I am in a multistory building, if this can help.

At the moment, I cannot get line statistics from the Sagemcom 2864 modem/router as I reset it to factory default. But thanks to all the tutorials on DSLr, I will try to get the info and post them here as soon as possible.

Truthfully, I would like to get 15/10 with TekSavvy and be happy with it for the next 5 to 10 years or whenever some better technology comes about. However, to me, it seems like Bell is being rather assertive.

Moreover, I have no experience with cable, I have read here on a few occasion that often speeds get slowed down a lot during high traffic periods. And I do know that with cable, one gets assigned an almost static IP, though I would prefer a dynamic one. That about sums up all I know about cable. Hence my reticence, although more clarification on cable in my area (Montreal) would be helpful in case a switch would be recommended (still with TekSavvy).

Please help me find a way out of this conundrum. I would deeply appreciate some pointers and recommendations from the experienced community here at DSLr.


youneedhelp

@bell.ca
the problem is that you dot have an agent with the balls to tell you the way things are

bell has to share the lines all are agreed here

so you get a line for dsl

via reseller its going to be the one that is the least they have to do to provide the service while the best lines are available for bell customers. this has been the situation for years and at times tpia clients will get bumped to slower lines while bell keeps the best lines for its clients.

this is reality of being a tpia client.


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON
bell isn't reserving any best lines for their own customers.

Calmuser

join:2011-10-27
Canada
reply to LostinFog

LostinFog

join:2013-09-09
reply to LostinFog
Accordingly, here are my current line statistics from the Sagemcom 2864 modem/router:

java code:
 Line Status      : Port is in Showtime
Mode : 0x1 (ADSL1 DMT ANNEX A )
Upstream = 640 Kb
Downstream = 1728 Kb
=================================================
DIAG Info:
=================================================
Attenuation ( dB ) : 29.9 30.00 (FE)
SNR margin ( dB ) : 26.6 26.00 (FE)
US Aggregate Power : 11.6 dbm
DS Attainable Data Rate: 7168 Kb
US Attainable Data Rate: -NA-
HEC counter : HEC_F:1
HEC_S:0
CRC counter : CRC_F:1
CRC_S: 0

Extended Port Status
=================
Bme: 1 Port: 1
Downstream line rate: 1996 kbps
Upstream line rate: 736 kbps
Bearer0 Downstream payload rate: 1728 kbps
Bearer1 Downstream payload rate: 0 kbps
Bearer0 Upstream payload rate: 640 kbps
Bearer1 Upstream payload rate: 0 kbps
Downstream attainable payload rate: 7168 kbps
Downstream attainable line rate: 7652 kbps
Downstream Training Margin: 6.0 dB
Downstream Line Protection (Bearer1 Path): 0.0 DMT Symbols
Upstream Line Protection (Bearer1 Path): 0.0 DMT Symbols
Near-end ITU Vendor Id: 0x###################
Far-end ITU Vendor Id: 0x###################
Downstream delay: 0.0 ms
Upstream delay: 0.0 ms
Tx total power 11.6 dbm
FE Tx total power 0.0 dbm
VDSL Estimated Loop Length : 4744 ft
G.Hs Estimated Near End Loop Length : 4744 ft
G.Hs Estimated Far End Loop Length :0 ft
Current framing mode: 0x00 ATM
Bandplan Type...........: 1
No. of Upstream Bands...: 1
No. of Downstream Bands.: 1
Line Type: 0x00000001 ADSL1 DMT ANNEX A
Downstream FFT Protection (Bearer1 Path): 0.0 DMT Symbols
Upstream FFT Protection (Bearer1 Path): 0.0 DMT Symbols
Upstream Line Attenuation: 17.0 dB
Upstream SNR Margin: 17.0 dB
Upstream Retransmission status: Disabled
Downstream Retransmission status: Disabled

Get Near End SNR Margin and Attenuation for Bme: 1 Port 1
=================
SNR Margin: 26.5 dB
Attenuation: 29.9 dB
Avg SNR Margin: 26.0 dB
Avg SNR: 47.1 dB

SNR Margin (SNRMpb-0): 26.0 dB
SNR Margin (SNRMpb-1): 0.0 dB
SNR Margin (SNRMpb-2): 0.0 dB
SNR Margin (SNRMpb-3): 0.0 dB
SNR Margin (SNRMpb-4): 0.0 dB

Line Attenuation (LATNpb-0): 29.9 dB
Line Attenuation (LATNpb-1): 102.3 dB
Line Attenuation (LATNpb-2): 102.3 dB
Line Attenuation (LATNpb-3): 102.3 dB
Line Attenuation (LATNpb-4): 102.3 dB

Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-0): 102.3 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-1): 102.3 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-2): 102.3 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-3): 102.3 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-4): 102.3 dB
Downstream attainable Line rate : 5312 kbps
Downstream attainable payload rate : 4980 kbps


Moreover, I do not know if I am on a DSLAM/SLAM/remote/central office, but I do know that there is a big Bell building (in a residential area, with no parking lot) less than a kilometer from my location (15 minutes walk). That is what I am assuming to probably be a central office.

Again, I appreciate your insight into this situation. I am not looking to blame anyone. I simply wish to find the most efficient solution (even if it is a bit roundabout) to my current problem.

I am currently looking into the redflagdeals.com link by Calmuser, which seems promising.


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to youneedhelp
said by Anon80:

this is reality of being a tpia client.

Wrong-anon.

The reality of being a client of an independent ISP is... we pay much less for substantially more internet, aren't stolen from or otherwise defrauded of our money, aren't lied to constantly, don't have prices go up every 3-6 months, and we get to deal with real human beings right in the area we live in that value our business.

There are several remedies available to the OP that do not require a deal with the devil.

Mike
--
I've picked on Cogeco long enough. Who's next? Any volunteers?


MacosKLM

@anthony-simonet.fr
reply to LostinFog
kudos to you to get the good stuff there, it looks like you could get "7652 kbps" on your line but you are being limited to "1728 kbps" also for vdsl you will need to change profile completely to 12a or 17a, but right now it looks like you are in "ADSL1 DMT ANNEX A"

If i were you I would have gone to Bell first to upgrade everything, then a month later change to TSI. Unfortunately, that is the only way to deal with capricious Bell.

Mark and his team has their hand full at the moment with a lot of issues in ontario, I doubt you will get any further help beyond a return credit for what you have payed or a switchover to cable. if they were a bit less overrun with tech support calls they could have pushed a bit more in your case.

well, try again with bell this time and see what happens "magically".

LostinFog

join:2013-09-09
reply to LostinFog
Hi,

I have posted on TekSavvy Direct a while ago: »[DSL] Slow speed. with my account details and relevant information. It seems to have passed on to the second page as of now... I am somewhat worried since all nearby post has been answered. I think I will post again with a new title.

Again, thanks for the pointers. However, I would better appreciate a TekSavvy centered solution if possible.


youneedhelp

@bell.ca
reply to LostinFog
those stats are fine for a higher profile. tek needs to push that one through unless you can hook up with a bell tech that can do it for you.


youneedhelp

@bell.ca
reply to jmck
oh yes they do i worked there for 8 years, resellers clients get bumped all the time

kortex

join:2013-07-25
canada
reply to LostinFog
What everyone has said so far is true. Looking at that SNR your line has a lot more room to grow.

and as far as distance from the CO, you are about 3.2km away if I am doing my math right.

Teksavvy should be able to change the line profile to something much higher unless bell has locked it.


Arbalister

join:2007-11-24
St Catharines, ON
reply to Calmuser
That's brilliant.

But I offer up one alteration to that posters conclusion. He states: "Bell doesn't care about you unless you are lining their pockets with money." and that simply is *not* true. They don't care about you *even if* you are lining their pockets with money.

I know - I started an ISP in 1996. Ran it until a couple years ago. I never handed them as much cash on a monthly basis as I know Teksavvy does... but guys like me, and Teksavvy, and all the other indy ISPs through the years paid for Bell's entry into the market. We handed them baskets of cash... and you see how appreciative they are.


xsbell

join:2008-12-22
Canada
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Primus Telecommu..
reply to LostinFog
This customer was never moved to new equipment, he's still on an HDSLAM, yet his loop is qualified for ~78Mbps.

Can Teksavvy please open a ticket for this customer with Bell so he can finally be moved. (I would myself if it was the 416/905/519 area, but unfortunately he's in Montreal.) Thank you!


BTC Kevin

join:2011-10-01
Nepean, ON
kudos:1
Bell does prefer remote FTTN ports for Bell users.

I had a Bell service, and cancelled. When i got TPIA, they claimed I was 8900 length on line and can't get more then 280kbps. I told em bullshit. and gave them my previous line states from that morning. Which was 200 FEET!! with max attainable of 49mbps.

They caved after that. Pull me off the long CO line they put me on and put me back on the remotes line card they just pulled me off. I told em I know they switched the line route. And that me old line card is free since they just removed me from it.


BTC Kevin

join:2011-10-01
Nepean, ON
kudos:1
reply to xsbell
said by xsbell:

This customer was never moved to new equipment, he's still on an HDSLAM, yet his loop is qualified for ~78Mbps.

Can Teksavvy please open a ticket for this customer with Bell so he can finally be moved. (I would myself if it was the 416/905/519 area, but unfortunately he's in Montreal.) Thank you!

someone 'forgot' to change the line huh. and only changed profile. :P


TSI Andre
Got TekSavvy?
Premium,VIP
join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
kudos:24
reply to LostinFog
Hi there,

Can you please PM me your account details. I will be able to take a look in the am at possible solutions.

Also, if I can't find something right away, I'd like to call my contact at bell on monday to get his advice.

Cheers,

Andre
--
TSI Andre
Director of Online & Operations Intelligence

TekSavvy Website | Follow Me on Twitter (@AndreCleroux)

LostinFog

join:2013-09-09
reply to LostinFog
OHHHHHHH!

I never saw my thread resurface since the last post by arbalister... shame on me! I am terribly embarrassed.

Actually, since the 12th September, xsbell has been tremendously helpful in assessing my line situation and even carrying out many tests while coordinating when to switch between my Gnet modem and the Sagemcom 2864 modem/router.

During that time, I had the opportunity to learn a lot in regard to how DSL worked by reading up a lot. I was flabbergasted by the intricacies and how complex it was from the modem to the CO and beyond, considering everything was happening transparently behind the scene. I deemed myself to be fairly understanding of network topologies and how packet switched networks worked, but DSL was a genuine mystery since I simply, and very wrongly, assumed that such an old technology progressed by just increasing its signaling frequency as new and more precise sensors were being developed. Additionally, I presumed third party ISP's were simply responsible for customer service and network routing/transit beyond the local area (in my case, beyond Montreal, a bit like telephone services). Even though I learned a lot these few days with the help of xsbell and a few friends, I still find myself in awe as a blithering idiot trying to grasp the full depth of how DSL works alone, and I have yet to touch Cable...

Moreover, it was understandable that TekSavvy was unable to do much more as they were only privy to the information Bell would make available. Hence, the issue with 3Mbps profile being the max available for my line. It is somewhat sad that third party internet providers are not able to directly access relevant information about a customer's line, even if it was solely in read-only mode. Nonetheless, I can also understand the worry by Bell Canada has in providing competitors with unfettered direct data on line condition and capability.

Very late, the 20th of September 2013, I posted again on Teksavvy Direct with much more information in regard to my line (gathered by myself with some friends, but most of it was through the hard and insightful work of xsbell) with the hopes of giving Teksavvy a better groundwork to stand on while discussing with Bell. I also requested another ticket to be submitted to Bell to upgrade my line.

With those details, I was informed by a Teksavvy agent that I should get updates very soon. Accordingly, since the 24th of September, I am able to enjoy speed of 14.71 Mbps as download and 7.53 Mbps as upload. I was ecstatic. If not for xsbell's vast experience alongside his enduring efforts and the expediency combined with the potent resourcefulness of Teksavvy's agents and technicians, I probably would not have been here typing this while enjoying the new speed.

Well now the whole family is almost abusing the newfound bandwidth , I am still in the process of setting up QoS and traffic shaping on the main router at the moment, hopefully I can complete it before I start getting complaints from TekSavvy xD. I also just learned that I really do not like the passthrough mode... that will be another adventure .

Finally, I would like to thank xsbell, for sharing his deep knowledge and time throughout this interesting saga even while he was busy, and every TekSavvy agents/salespersons/technicians with whom I had the wonderful opportunity to interact with since July, who were persistently honest, quick and professional even while I asked numerous questions, some requiring long answers, others being plain stupid on my part :S (in retrospect, now that I understand a little bit more).

Again, I greatly appreciate the help and support I had from everyone while on DSLr. I will indeed request this community's assistance whenever I am faced with a problem where the solution evades my own capability.

Very sincerely,
LostinFog


Gaulix

@colt.net
you were lucky. i would have gone with Bell for one month with the highest possible fibe package then switched to any IISP.

look. you had to waste time to get your package. i just paid one month at high price then switched to lower price and better cap. the high cost was a guarantee for quality and no fishy business by Bell .


youneedhelp

@24.114.90.x
that is still not a for sure thing that the account will remain hooked upto the remote thus the faster connection. as has been stated bell has been moving tpia accounts off remotes when they need to. they will bump a tpia account off a remote for a bell account in a heartbeat. happens more often than you would think

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
said by [youneedhelp :

]that is still not a for sure thing that the account will remain hooked upto the remote thus the faster connection. as has been stated bell has been moving tpia accounts off remotes when they need to. they will bump a tpia account off a remote for a bell account in a heartbeat. happens more often than you would think

Technically, I do believe they're allowed to kick GAS customers on non-FTTN profiles (ie 7mbps or less) off the remote to the CO for their own Fibe customers.
However, kicking a GAS customer with a FTTN profile off the remote to the CO for one of their own customers is a big no no.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


Leitmotiv

@voxility.net
reply to LostinFog
quote:
I am able to enjoy speed of 14.71 Mbps as download and 7.53 Mbps as upload
Hey,

Can you get your new line stats? I'd like to see what changed.

Thx


Zspeed

join:2013-08-30
reply to resa1983
said by resa1983:

Technically, I do believe they're allowed to kick GAS customers on non-FTTN profiles (ie 7mbps or less) off the remote to the CO for their own Fibe customers.
However, kicking a GAS customer with a FTTN profile off the remote to the CO for one of their own customers is a big no no.

What about FTTN customers with TPIAs (50/10, 25/10), could they be kicked onto lower profiles? I know someone who had to switch to cable a few months ago due to some maintenance work that took place at the CO and made his profile suddenly go down to 7000/1000, his provider (not TekSavvy) nor Bell was able to resolve the issue at that time.

Well, the CRTC still has a long way to go to take Canada onto the world stage, at least the UBB horror was put down by sheer outrage and no politician wanting to have anything to do with that hot potato.


TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
said by Zspeed:

at least the UBB horror was put down by sheer outrage and no politician wanting to have anything to do with that hot potato.

Actually "UBB" is still around, only its morphed into CBB (Capacity Based Billing), which does affect the assine rates for the higher tier plans, which sadly is the only reason I'm not on 150/10 unlimited paying twice as much as the unlimited plan is NOT a compromise I want to make. (This is no doubt by design.)

At least for DSL plans prices dropped a bit, not so much for Cable subs.
--

!- From the mind located in the shadows of infinity -!
Nine.Zero.Burp.Nine.Six
Twitter = @TwiztedZero
Chat = irc.teksavvy.ca


BellCorrupt

@colocrossing.com
reply to Zspeed
You should make a complaint to the CRTC, since you have enough evidence to prove wrongdoing by Bell trying to misinform and willfully not carry out *your* order. Also, make a request for transcripts and documents TekSavvy has received from Bell for your DSL package. Simply submitting a complaint helps, even if they do nothing about it for you, just the numbers of complaints would make them rethink the situation and try to make the whole process a lot more rigorously defined for the incumbents, thus less leeway for intentful fuck-ups.


BellCorrupt

@colocrossing.com
*I meant for OP.