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fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
Reviews:
·VOIPO
·Verizon FiOS

Verizon failed to mark out their facilities - fiber now cut

Click for full size
Notice the lack of markouts!!!
In what is becoming commonplace, Verizon failed to markout their underground facilities in my neighborhood - resulting in an outage when a trench was dug for a new water main. This is a big project and the contractor called for markouts weeks ago. The electric, gas,water and sewer lines were quickly identified. Even Comcast put in a few marks here and there. But Verizon, which has fiber all over the place, is a major no show. After failing to respond to the PA1 Call request, they were twice called by the water company but failed to respond. So now, part of the neighborhood is dark and it will be only a matter of time before the remaining fiber crossings are severed.

Does anyone have suggestions on who I can contact at Verizon to get them to quickly markout their facilities? At this rate, I will be out of service by tomorrow or the next day.

Thanks

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:2

Safe dig, or the equivalent for your area make the marks, Verizon has nothing to do with it


fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
Reviews:
·VOIPO
·Verizon FiOS

That is not how things appear to be done in the suburban Philadelphia area. Verizon has chosen to maintain responsibility for completing physical markouts requested through the PA One Call organization. The electric and gas company (PECO) has farmed out the work to a vendor. The cable company, water company and sewer authority also complete their own markouts. Go figure.



dmolavi
Premium
join:2005-04-11
Sewell, NJ
reply to fbruno

Perhaps remind Verizon that FiOS customers in the affected area which have their phone service are now without a "lifeline" service and they need to get out there and not only repair the fiber, but do the markouts.
--
NukedGallery.net
GalleryModules.com


fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
Reviews:
·VOIPO
·Verizon FiOS

Yes, I agree that Verizon needs to take responsibility. I have called Verizon Executive Customer Service and also posted to the Verizon Direct forum.

It would be really helpful if I could contact the local crews that will be stuck working all night to repair the damage. My thinking is they have a vested interest in this issue, (unless they want the overtime).


buckweet1980

join:2011-12-31
Allen, TX
reply to fbruno

Perhaps it should just get cut fully so VZ will get out there and fix it!



UhHum

@verizon.net
reply to fbruno

This is what happens when Verizon decides to run fiber cables that have no metallic tracer on them



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:31

Wrong. The fiber cables have a kevlar jacket which DOES have a tracer wire. Besides, that's not the problem here.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.



UhHum

@verizon.net

-1 recommendation

WRONG. Are you personally running these cables? No, thought not.

And it is the problem here, unless we can get a view close enough where you can see the tracer. Many of the fibers are run UN-TRACEABLE, the contractor calls in ahead for locates, and the locate people from Verizon cant mark it out ! And THIS is the result.

In many cases like this one, it would be possible to do a locate if untraceable, if the locate crew pushes a metal wire through the orange conduit, THEN does a trace.

Expand your moderator at work

fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
Reviews:
·VOIPO
·Verizon FiOS
reply to UhHum

Re: Verizon failed to mark out their facilities - fiber now cut

Interesting that you mention metal wire in the conduit. Today I took a look inside the flush mounts around my neighborhood. Low and behold, I noticed a substantial solid wire, (8 or 10 AWG) in the conduits containing high count fibers. Also,in each drop conduit I noticed alongside the fiber a pull tape with a thin, integrated tracer wire.



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Is that "substantial wire" , ( sounds like ground wire for the terminals) and "integrated tracer" (a.k.a mule tape) present at the accident site?

I can see mule tape in the photo, but not all mule tape has the tracer ( usually a thin orange wire )



linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
Reviews:
·TracFone Wireless
·CenturyLink
reply to guppy_fish

Where I live JULIE is only required to mark public utilities. If Verizon is delivering phone over copper they can be held accountable by the STATE Commerce Commission or PUC/PUB.

Otherwise the contractor is on the hook for all damages.
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside



SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to UhHum

said by Anon80:

WRONG. Are you personally running these cables? No, thought not.

And it is the problem here, unless we can get a view close enough where you can see the tracer. Many of the fibers are run UN-TRACEABLE, the contractor calls in ahead for locates, and the locate people from Verizon cant mark it out ! And THIS is the result.

In many cases like this one, it would be possible to do a locate if untraceable, if the locate crew pushes a metal wire through the orange conduit, THEN does a trace.

Out here in the western burbs there is a wire and they can trace it. I personally walked along side of the guy tracing it. Verizon did their own.
--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." - Neil deGrasse Tyson


danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

They absolutely have tracer wires in them. The optic cable has them, its made that way by default. The conduit is optional, but I've never encountered an external rated optical cable without tracer wire.


kevnich24

join:2006-04-19
Mulberry, FL

All buried fiber optic cable from verizon, or any other ISP for that matter always has a tracer wire with it. If it doesn't, they usually bury a 3 pair copper wire with it strictly for tracing purposes but I think that was in the early stages of deployment and not used anymore.

Considering how much it costs them to fix damaged fiber cable, I don't see why they would not want to use tracer wire when burying cable in the first place.



Rattler

join:2001-04-13
Havertown, PA
reply to fbruno

AQUA is chopping the hell out of my street right now to put in new 8" mains. All our utilities (save H2O, gas and sewer) are on the pole so, unless they come through with too tall equipment, we are relatively safe from cut services.
--
Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. -- Red Buttons


fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
Reviews:
·VOIPO
·Verizon FiOS
reply to ITALIAN926

Click for full size
This is a picture of the flush mount servicing my home. My drop is at lower right. The mule tape includes an orange copper wire, maybe 20 or 22 AWG.

Notice the two bare copper wires. Contrary to my previous description, these wires are not in the conduit - they are alongside the conduit. I believe both wires come from the upstream flush mount along with the three drops entering in the upper left.

fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
Reviews:
·VOIPO
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit
reply to fbruno

Click for full size
Successfully avoided disaster
Click for full size
Today's trench from the end
Today we dodged a bullet, thanks to an ancient can of orange paint from my days in underground CATV construction. Last night I took my best guess at the location of the distribution conduit feeding my flush mount. You can see faint remnants of my marks at the upper right. The trenching contractor was quite surprised that "I got someone from Verizon to complete the markouts".

If this conduit was severed, it would have taken out three houses -- not the end of the world, but enough to bother me and two other customers.

Sometime next week they will have to trench across a major intersection containing two 144-count fiber cables to the neighborhood distribution box. How do I know this? Well, three weeks ago both of these cable were severed when Verizon failed to markout their facilities in advance of Comcast trenching in a new neighborhood feed. The Verizon repair crew was in action from 9pm until 6am the next morning. I, and the entire neighborhood, was out of service for 18 hours.

The second picture shows today's trench from the end. The large hump is a storm drain, followed by two white PVC conduits containing Comcast cables. Next is the FiOS conduit and then two steel conduits containing high voltage electric to the next underground transformer.

To be continued next week.


tito79

join:2010-03-14
Brewster, NY
kudos:1

Looks like they either didn't read the plans or Verizon didn't update there plans with the city or town.


blue_trooper

join:2007-04-17
Exton, PA

said by fbruno:

If this conduit was severed, it would have taken out three houses -- not the end of the world, but enough to bother me and two other customers.

Often the bigger outages will get a higher priority. Little ones can wait longer for a fix. Of course this is a bigger issue after something like a storm when there are multiple outages.

said by tito79:

Looks like they either didn't read the plans or Verizon didn't update there plans with the city or town.

If there are plans nobody trusts them. The utilities are supposed to come out and spray paint the locations of their lines. At least that's how it's done around here (I'm less than 10 miles from the OP) and I believe all of PA.


jjf

@verizon.net
reply to tito79

verizon has a contractor that locates and marks out verizon's underground lines, here it's danella construction or danella line service from plymouth meeting ,Pa.



OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH
reply to fbruno

Do we know if the contractor gave VZ a full 48 business hrs (not a weekend) to mark this. OP mentions it was called in "weeks" ago, most locates state that after 14 days it must be re-located.

Expand your moderator at work


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to fbruno

Re: Verizon failed to mark out their facilities - fiber now cut

If you notice in the photo, the fiber going into the conduit on the left has the tracer on it. (look at the edge) The fiber going into the UPPER RIGHT conduit does NOT have the tracer on it, therefore the conduit , and fiber on the UPPER RIGHT is NOT traceable.



jjf

@verizon.net

does not matter whether tracer is is there or not, verizon is responsible for their lines. period. if marked and hit, it's on the contractor who hit hit, when it comes to pay at the end for the repair, if not marked and after 72 hours is struck, verizon is stuck with the bill. when the lines are placed whether open trench or directional bore a locate wire is to be placed. Verizon does not check on it's sub contractors, at all when this is being done. when a locator comes upon lines with no tracer, they are suppose to call verizon. even their locators are sub contractors, very poor at what they do. if lines are marked, a test hole is require, to verify the mark, usually utility companies have 18" on each side of the mark, total 3 feet. verizon's locators like to place a 5 foot wide of marks, to cover their butts.



jjf

@verizon.net
reply to fbruno

Those #6 copper wires in that hand hole are grounding wires, no way would verizon place hundred's of feet of that expensive wire along their hard shell duct. They do use a much thinner copper wire with orange coating but even that is usually placed in the duct. When directional boring they usually pull a thin ground wire in alongside the product. Mule tape with the locate wire in it is the way they go most of the time, even when the fiber is pulled with the mule tape, another mule line is to be pulled to replace it. If done correctly by verizon's sub contractor's these problems would not happen. Again, verizon has no field inspectors to verify their products are being placed properly. These sub's are placing main lines in for a few bucks and service lines for pennies, so alot of corners are cut to finish the job, even if not correct.



jjf

@verizon.net
reply to ITALIAN926

does not matter whether tracer is is there or not, verizon is responsible for their lines. period. if marked and hit, it's on the contractor who hit hit, when it comes to pay at the end for the repair, if not marked and after 72 hours is struck, verizon is stuck with the bill. when the lines are placed whether open trench or directional bore a locate wire is to be placed. Verizon does not check on it's sub contractors, at all when this is being done. when a locator comes upon lines with no tracer, they are suppose to call verizon. even their locators are sub contractors, very poor at what they do. if lines are marked, a test hole is require, to verify the mark, usually utility companies have 18" on each side of the mark, total 3 feet. verizon's locators like to place a 5 foot wide of marks, to cover their butts.


Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Reviews:
·Solarus
reply to guppy_fish

said by guppy_fish:

Safe dig, or the equivalent for your area make the marks, Verizon has nothing to do with it

I don't know how your city does it, my in mine you see a truck roll from each company to mark their own services, and they may not all come out on the same day either.

So no, no one place makes the marks.

fbruno

join:2000-04-06
Berwyn, PA
Reviews:
·VOIPO
·Verizon FiOS
reply to jjf

You have an excellent point - why would they use such an expensive conductor as a trace wire. What was I thinking? They appear to run together between the upstream flushmount with the terminal and the pictured flushmount acting as a pull box. They are not connected to anything at either end.