Tech / Special Interest → Home Improvement > [Electrical] electrical wiring without ground

[Electrical] electrical wiring without ground

I'm planning to add a couple of fluorescent lights and one outlet to someone's garage.

I checked it out today, and all the pre-existing wiring is using only 2 conductors. What's the best way to proceed?

I cannot rewire the whole thing.

I know I should've made some pictures to make your day -- it looked bad, even to me!
Next week, hopefully.

TIA
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[Electrical] Re: electrical wiring without ground

If the lights will be mounted on the ceiling I would just go ahead and install them as to where circuits. As for the receptacle, I would installing GFI receptacle connected to the 2 wires and mark the face of it that it has no ground. That will provide protection without the ground.

Many new fluorescent fixtures will not operate without a ground.

I presume those would be the fully electronic ones. Right?

Can I just get a piece of metal rod, hammer it into to ground, then connect the ground wire to it?
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Yes.

No.

Without a ground you need to be sure the new fixture has an electronic ballast it will work without a ground.

Also check that it is rated to operate at the lowest temperature it is likely to see in the garage.

The very old fixtures magnetic ballast with starters will also work. You must avoid the magnetic rapid start ballasts as they will not start reliability if at all without a ground.

I do not think a ground rod that is not connected to your electrical panel will help.

Walta

in a new wiring case like this, it's better to just run proper wiring. you don't need to re wire the whole house, just the circuit you plan to add. what, 50 ft. of romex?

Putting in the proper wiring is not issue. Connecting the ground wire is.

The link you posted is likely to have electronic ballast.

If it has an electronic ballast the lamp will weigh about 5 pounds if it is magnetic it will weigh about 14 pounds.

If it were me I would buy one open it in the parking lot and read the label on the ballast.

What is the record low temp?

Walta

I just replaced old, magnetic ballasts in 3 circline fixtures with electronic. One of the fixtures were grounded and two were not. Ballasts stated that they must be grounded to work. All three worked properly, ground or no ground.

I guess then it's safe to assume that ballasts in new fixtures will be electronic. In that case, is there still a difference between fast and non-fast start ballasts?

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Are you saying the main panel is not grounded?

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What is the record low temp?

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I just replaced old, magnetic ballasts in 3 circline fixtures with electronic. One of the fixtures were grounded and two were not. Ballasts stated that they must be grounded to work. All three worked properly, ground or no ground.

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Thanks, I forgot about the program start ones. They wouldn't be needed in a garage.

I'd suggest just getting the fixtures that you want to install and see if they work. If they do, great. If they don't, it's probably the grounding issue.

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Rapid Start and some Instant Start fixtures must be connected to an electrical ground in order to start properly. In addition, the metal reflector of the fixture must be correctly installed so that it is within 1/2 inches of the lamps AND is in electrical contact with the ballast. A capacitive field is created between lamp and the metal reflector by the ballast during the starting process, and without this field, the lamps may reach normal operating brightness only by an external influence, such as an increase in capacitance caused by you touching the lamps, or by an increase in light (ionization) in the area coming from other sources.

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I've never seen a fluorescent fixture that would not start without a ground nor do I see any reason one would be required for the lamp to light. Could someone please provide an explanation of why one would be required?

See above...

It is a mixture of functional and safety requirements.

On the functional side it is the requirement for the capacitive coupling between ballast and bulb. The actual implementation of this requirement is typically a metal reflector (where the reflector is sometimes simply the rear part of the enclosure) with the ballast being mounted in direct contact with the reflector.

On the electrical safety side is the requirement to ground exposed metal surfaces.

The bulbs will start without ground as long as the capacitive coupling between ballast enclosure and bulb is present. However for safety reasons the grounding should be present.
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AFAIK, CFL bulbs don't require a ground, so why not use those instead? I have a couple of big, bare CFLs hanging from the old, original light fixture in my garage and those puppies turn night into day there, even for the furthest, darkest corners. They are not enclosed for several reasons: they're too big to fit the original enclosure, they get better cooling without an enclosure, plus I get better light distribution without one, too.

How about gutting out the ballasts, and using replacement LED tubes in place of the fluorescent bulbs? grounding wouldn't be as much of an issue then.

Do yourself a giant favor and RUN, don't walk from that mess. I wouldn't want to be associated with any sort of work in a mess as bad as that, or you'll become responsible for the whole thing.

Re: [Electrical] electrical wiring without ground

and a lot of members are saying don't worry about a ground!! none of the boxes are grounded, you can get a shock from that!. AND it has single wires instead of romex coming from the enclosure!!. someone rigged this bad. although many years ago, grounds were not used, enough people were shocked to force that to be changed!. tell her she needs an electrician to fix this, it's NOT safe!. it MAY be just the garage not wired properly, if the whole house is like that, it's going to be expensive to fix!. what's it like in the main breaker panel in the house??